UnderGround Forums
 

Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> More rule changes on the horizon?


1/13/13 11:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OCJudoTrngCtr
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 621

Walt,

Congratulations on your MSU Judo article being published on the USJF website. Great read about a great time in American judo.

Which reminds me that I completely forgot to mention in a previous post another judo program in our area that is not part of the USJA/USJF/USA Judo sphere of influence.  It is CSUF (Cal State University-Fullerton) Judo.

CSUF Judo began about two years ago. It was started by one of our sankyu members named Mark Nguyen. Mark studied with us for about 18 months before he began the program, and I really haven't seen him since, as he's been very busy with school. They meet once or twice a week in a martial arts room that they have at CSUF.  Every semester when they have sign ups he gets about 20 or so new students who want to try it.  They learn to fall, a few throws, pins, submissions, etc. and from all that I can tell, they have a great time doing it.  Just a bunch of college kids having a good time.  I think its great, though some might be aghast at the horror of a judo program being run by a sankyu and without a bunch of fees and credentials being paid.

1/14/13 9:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Koga
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/12/02
Posts: 3607
Rules are needed for safety and I understand penalizing stalling to keep the sport exciting, but the new rules in recent years are merely intended to create a certain standard ascetic.

The result renders competitive judo less useful for anything other than competitive judo (self defense, etc), stifles creativity of competitors, and eliminates safe techniques even if included in the Gokyo, which in turn makes judo less diverse and international (think of all the success the central European players had with kata garuma).

With all the new rules, the referee/judges play an even more important role in determining matches and ippons are no more likely to occur than before - this was clear at the A level competitions and Olympics last year.
1/17/13 3:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PK618
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/26/12
Posts: 20
I really hope these rules are scrapped after the trial period.

Limiting techniques that aren't inherently and exceptionally dangerous is just politicking and pandering to TV, and at least as far as I can tell hasn't helped Judo break into TV here in the U.S. at all. If anything keeping the rules kind of similar to freestyle wrestling, but with submissions, seems like it would be more appealing to American audiences.

The constant rule fiddling and homogenization of the art makes me want to give up on Judo sometimes. And I freaking love Judo.
1/17/13 4:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OCJudoTrngCtr
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/20/13 2:28 PM
Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 623

Neil Adams' Facebook Page has some great information on it.

http://facebook.com/neiladamsjudo

There is a link to the presentation done for the International Referees last weekend in Malaga.  You will need the Chrome browser to watch it without issues.  There are several videos that explain the interpretation of the new rules.

I can see a lot of issues if these rules are enforced at  the local level.  I would highly suggest that USA Judo only use them at Senior Nationals, World Cup, and US Open events.

Edit.  The post has moved down some since I first posted. It is the Facebook post that was made on January 15th.

 

 

1/18/13 12:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ASanchez83
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/19/06
Posts: 94
Does anyone know if you can still grab legs to pass guard/half guard? Phone Post
1/18/13 5:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
judoblackbelt
26 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/28/07
Posts: 2253
I have seen no proposed rules to change the grabbing of legs on the ground. the grabbing of legs/controlling the hip(s) is standard in judo ground work.
1/18/13 6:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OCJudoTrngCtr
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 625

If you look at the videos from the IJF's Referee meeting in Malaga, there are several ways to get hansoku make from touching the legs in the transition from tachiwaza to newaza.  Personally, I think it is utterly ridiculous.

What I do need to clarify is if they consider the turtle a newaza position. In two of the videos tori is given hansoku make from turning the opponent over when the opponent was in the turtle position by using techniques where tori grabs the legs. The IJF claims that there needs to be a break between tachiwaza and newaza before touching the legs. There are some examples with Gamba, but Adams was on his back in those examples. The videos where hansoku make was given I believe the uke was already in the turtle position before the legs were touched....still call of hansoku make.

Please do yourselves a favor and go watch every single video so that you understand what is happening, and so you will be better prepared to ask for clarifications when you have the opportunity to speak with the IJF-A referees in your area.

 

1/18/13 6:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OCJudoTrngCtr
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 626

ASanchez83,

If the referee does not believe that you have fully transitioned to newaza from tachiwaza when you touch the legs you will get hansoku make. Look at the videos from the link on Neil Adams Facebook account from the meeting in Malaga.

1/19/13 10:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ASanchez83
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/19/06
Posts: 95
Thank you OCJudoTrngCtr.
1/31/13 10:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OCJudoTrngCtr
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/07
Posts: 632

 

USA Judo has put out their statement on the rules.  Is it a shock to anyone that they support the changes in their entirety?

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Judo/Features/2013/January/29/USA-Judo-Supports-IJF-Rule-Changes-As-Best-for-The-Sport.aspx

Here are my predictions:

1) There will be virtually no judo tournaments sanctioned by USA Judo, USJF, USJA that will not apply the new IJF rules.

2) The majority of USA Judo, USJF, USJA clubs will continue to support these tournaments.

3) That the reasons for the 2016 rule changes will be virtually the same as they were in 2012....and 2008....and 2004....and so on, and so on.   Every quadrennial, it is the same template, different dates.

4) The judo growth rate in the USA will continue to stagnate. Judo will come no closer to becoming a spectator sport.  Throughout the world, other martial arts will continue to take market and mind share away from the sport of judo.

As I've said before, there is really nothing we can do to change what is happening at those echelons of the judo organizations infrastructure.  The only thing we can do, and that is at our local level is teach the judo that we want to teach.  When the aspirations or programs of the National and International organizations are in agreement or push forward our own agendas, then we can support them in that regard.

In the meantime, the club I support is growing nicely with a growth rate that far surpasses the average judo dojo in the USA.  I'll put my efforts into focusing on that.  I'll also do my best to understand the new rule set, so that we can better prepare our students who want to compete at the local level and higher.

1/31/13 11:06 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Osaekomi
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 4840
OC,

In re: my MSU article thanks for the compliment and I am glad you liked it.

The sankyu's college judo program seems like a good way to attract students to judo and it does indeed sound like they are having a good time.

I'm congruent with you on your assessment of the new rules and your other opinons herein so much so that I feel like a clone.



Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.