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UnderGround Forums >> Is MMA unsportsmanlike? Nate Diaz says yes


12/6/12 12:39 PM
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chaplinshouse
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Lazer MMA - 
chaplinshouse - 
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nick diaz nut hugger - 
nick diaz nut hugger - Conclusion: take the faggot smile off your face and stop pretending to be a guy's best friend before you fight him. It's competition you fucking retard, any pre-fight interaction should be tense Phone Post
You're supposed to be angry. It's a fucking fight Phone Post


Um, no not at all.

Look at Fedor.

"Forget about winning or losing, forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him." - you should know who

isn't that Lee quote the exact opposite of Fedor? pretty gangster if u ask me



Interesting, how so? If you like it V it TFU. TY

ok there is your VTFU sir

it's gangster because Lee is taking shit many steps beyond the Diaz brothers.  The Diaz brothers consider it a fight with their integrity on the line.  Lee is saying it's far beyond mere pride, and is making it more about ruthless revenge and even death.  One upping your guy.  Lee's quote sounds very familiar to something, hmm

Lee:  "Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him."

The Untouchables:  "He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone."

meanwhile, the Diaz brothers simply want to beat your ass, lol. 

 

12/6/12 1:07 PM
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Ministry of Truth
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The Diaz brothers are "real" fighters, something that isn't very prevalent at the highest levels of MMA, but is in boxing.

For me, it's refreshing to see guys who approach a fight as an actual fight, instead of just a competition.

Guys like BJ are similar as well, and that's why they will always have a unique, rabid subset of fans.
12/6/12 1:17 PM
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BshMstr
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Edited: 12/06/12 1:17 PM
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uh, just for the record, MMA is a sport. that point seems lost on a lot of people here...

you want to go to war, then join up. MMA isn't war, and the comparison is stupid and made entirely too often.
12/6/12 1:20 PM
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sitchpack
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Has anyone here ever been in a pro MMA fight? Or does martial training.of any kind?

If not I would reserve judgement, you obviously do not understand.what a fighter goes through, and you never will. Hence all the losers on here judging the Diaz brothers for being a little rough around the edges, whilst they fondle their potbellies, go to jobs they despise, and hate on various people for various hippocritical reasons.

Its not like either of them have failed to make weight, or punched a dude.after the bell. Phone Post
12/6/12 1:22 PM
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sitchpack
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BshMstr - uh, just for the record, MMA is a sport. that point seems lost on a lot of people here...

you want to go to war, then join up. MMA isn't war, and the comparison is stupid and made entirely too often.
It is a combat sport. Combat is fighting you disgusting retard, MMA has been dressed up as a sport to make it accessible to the world. You still have to beat seven bells of shit out of your opponent to win. Phone Post
12/6/12 1:27 PM
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BshMstr
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sitchpack - 
BshMstr - uh, just for the record, MMA is a sport. that point seems lost on a lot of people here...

you want to go to war, then join up. MMA isn't war, and the comparison is stupid and made entirely too often.
It is a combat sport. Combat is fighting you disgusting retard, MMA has been dressed up as a sport to make it accessible to the world. You still have to beat seven bells of shit out of your opponent to win. Phone Post

it's a combat......SPORT. so how is it unSPORTsmanlike? do you still not get why what he said sounds so dumb?

fighting for your life is nothing like competing in a sport, at least not in my experience....but hey, i'm just a disgusting retard.

12/6/12 1:35 PM
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BshMstr
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nick diaz nut hugger - 
BshMstr - uh, just for the record, MMA is a sport. that point seems lost on a lot of people here...

you want to go to war, then join up. MMA isn't war, and the comparison is stupid and made entirely too often.

I had to quote you before you edited your retarded lack of a point again.

Mma isn't war, but the comparison is made because they both involve combat. It's hyperbole, but it's not a stupid comparison

 


our definition of combat is apparently different....i view it as something that can end in death, whereas MMA (generally) ends with someone winning and someone losing...and both walking away to fight another day.

12/6/12 1:50 PM
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Lazer MMA
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chaplinshouse - 
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chaplinshouse - 
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nick diaz nut hugger - 
nick diaz nut hugger - Conclusion: take the faggot smile off your face and stop pretending to be a guy's best friend before you fight him. It's competition you fucking retard, any pre-fight interaction should be tense Phone Post
You're supposed to be angry. It's a fucking fight Phone Post


Um, no not at all.

Look at Fedor.

"Forget about winning or losing, forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him." - you should know who

isn't that Lee quote the exact opposite of Fedor? pretty gangster if u ask me



Interesting, how so? If you like it V it TFU. TY

ok there is your VTFU sir

it's gangster because Lee is taking shit many steps beyond the Diaz brothers.  The Diaz brothers consider it a fight with their integrity on the line.  Lee is saying it's far beyond mere pride, and is making it more about ruthless revenge and even death.  One upping your guy.  Lee's quote sounds very familiar to something, hmm

Lee:  "Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him."

The Untouchables:  "He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone."

meanwhile, the Diaz brothers simply want to beat your ass, lol. 

 




LOL no no no no

He's saying to be without fear and to react to the reality based what it is. No revenge at all but death if there must be (for you to overcome) in combat.

This is about 'real' fighting, not an MMA match. That was the point of my post, you don't need to be an angry animal, only an efficient and wise fighter.
12/6/12 2:34 PM
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chaplinshouse
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chaplinshouse - 
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chaplinshouse - 
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nick diaz nut hugger - 
nick diaz nut hugger - Conclusion: take the faggot smile off your face and stop pretending to be a guy's best friend before you fight him. It's competition you fucking retard, any pre-fight interaction should be tense Phone Post
You're supposed to be angry. It's a fucking fight Phone Post


Um, no not at all.

Look at Fedor.

"Forget about winning or losing, forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him." - you should know who

isn't that Lee quote the exact opposite of Fedor? pretty gangster if u ask me



Interesting, how so? If you like it V it TFU. TY

ok there is your VTFU sir

it's gangster because Lee is taking shit many steps beyond the Diaz brothers.  The Diaz brothers consider it a fight with their integrity on the line.  Lee is saying it's far beyond mere pride, and is making it more about ruthless revenge and even death.  One upping your guy.  Lee's quote sounds very familiar to something, hmm

Lee:  "Let your opponent graze your skin and you shall smash into his flesh. Let him smash into your flesh and you shall fracture his bones, let him fracture your bones and you shall take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him."

The Untouchables:  "He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone."

meanwhile, the Diaz brothers simply want to beat your ass, lol. 

 




LOL no no no no

He's saying to be without fear and to react to the reality based what it is. No revenge at all but death if there must be (for you to overcome) in combat.

This is about 'real' fighting, not an MMA match. That was the point of my post, you don't need to be an angry animal, only an efficient and wise fighter.

No revenge at all?  what do you call killing a guy for fracturing your bones? lol.  that is the epitome of revenge and Mir should be dead by that logic

 

12/6/12 3:10 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Edited: 12/06/12 3:22 PM
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No Chaplin not revenge but what is necessary to do in combat to preserve your life when you have fractured bones (perhaps).

His main point is in the conclusion, that one should have no fear ("learn the art of dying"). Plus I'm sorry I should have given you the entire quote.

"Approach Jeet Kune Do as though you were mastering your own mind" (I believe is the exact quote). Then the end "Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him."

So we are like machines in way. We are ready to let "nature take its course". We "release emotional content" yes but that is also just part of nature. It is not hate or want we "feel" but just ourselves being one with nature engaging in combat (because we had no choice) as it is "natural".

He had a great concern that we would have no fear of combat and he expresses this often really. I always found it interesting that Rickson had a different point of view saying that it was foolish to have no fear and he always has some. I side with Bruce completely on this one and the truth is when you engage with this strength inside you your opponent will know this about you just by looking. From an overall perspective beyond just combat BTW:

"“Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.”
12/6/12 3:15 PM
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spartancs
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MMA is a sanctioned sport with rules.  As long as competitors are complying with the rules it's "sportsmanlike".  Things like intentional eyepokes certainly are unsportsmanlike because they violate the rules, but what's unsportsmalike about taking someone down and submitting them or knocking them out?  I love the way the Diaz boys train and fight but both fighters agree before hand to operate within the rules and as long as they do that it's sportsmanlike.  It's just a really tough and somtimes brutal violent sport.

12/6/12 3:19 PM
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fightharder
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Since i am not a MMA fighter myself my judgement is pretty much worthlesss. But i am certain a lot of current and former competitors would disagree with Diaz.

 

Its also a strange statement. In the sport of MMA you goal is to get a KO,submissions. So how could strifing for these things be ''unsportmanlike'' when then intrinsic parts of the sport. He should have said that the sport of MMA does not lend itself to friendly or respectful behaviour because thats what he actually means. But if he would say it like that he would hear that his statement would be rather silly.

 

Sportmanschip,in my humble opinion,is about respect for your opponent. A guy like Rory is always respectful against his opponents even though he goes there to smash them. I think that level is the bare minimum of respect opponents should have for eachother. Compare that to the Diaz brothers behaviour at times and its kind of easy to see where these words are coming from.

12/6/12 3:46 PM
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chaplinshouse
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Lazer MMA - No Chaplin not revenge but what is necessary to do in combat to preserve your life when you have fractured bones (perhaps).

His main point is in the conclusion, that one should have no fear ("learn the art of dying"). Plus I'm sorry I should have given you the entire quote.

"Approach Jeet Kune Do as though you were mastering your own mind" (I believe is the exact quote). Then the end "Do not be concerned with escaping safely, lay your life before him."

So we are like machines in way. We are ready to let "nature take its course". We "release emotional content" yes but that is also just part of nature. It is not hate or want we "feel" but just ourselves being one with nature engaging in combat (because we had no choice) as it is "natural".

He had a great concern that we would have no fear of combat and he expresses this often really. I always found it interesting that Rickson had a different point of view saying that it was foolish to have no fear and he always has some. I side with Bruce completely on this one and the truth is when you engage with this strength inside you your opponent will know this about you just by looking. From an overall perspective beyond just combat BTW:

"“Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.”

On your main Lee quote I disagree but cool on your own interpretation of it.  Yes I agree there are many views in his book that are void of vengeance, emotion, etc and probably would have been better used to back your point.  My favorite being the water analogy.  It's so perfect.  But there is no other way to take the original quote you posted imo.  I can't speak for a long dead legend, I can only go by what he says. 

That all said i love every page of Bruce's writings and I don't disagree with anything I've read from him, and I love his emphasis on the psychology of fighting which I think gets too overlooked for most fighters.  I do feel that what worked so well for him may not necessarily be the best mindset for everyone (like maybe Rickson).  Some guys cite fear as their greatest friend for combat and given some of their resumes it's hard to argue the results.  But who knows, if Bruce was their master from day 1, they could have very well flown with that philosphy too.  All we can do is speculate

12/6/12 3:49 PM
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notsobigmike
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JakodaRay - IMO, hitting a man while he's down and stunned is as unsportmanslike as it gets. Jackie Chan commented on it and said that he doesn't like MMA because of it.

"Martial arts is about respect. When somebody is knocked down, stop. I really respect Sugar Ray Leonard. Come on, [when a guy is down] stop. Don’t fight. That’s not the spirit. When you’re down, I’ll grab you up. Are you okay? Should we continue? That’s the martial arts spirit. That’s what I want."

I agree with Jackie, it's not respectful. Still love MMA though.

I'm a huge Jackie Chan fan, but I think he's totally off-base here.

Ground fighting is a part of martial arts. If it's a boxing/kickboxing match, sure, I'll let the guy up.

But it makes absolutely ZERO sense to just stop fighting when you stun a guy or floor him in any kind of free- environment.

Hell, I've seen plenty of karate/TKD sparring matches where guys throw "ghost" follow-up punches to a floored opponent. Is that more "sportsmanlike?" Because it's also ridiculously unrealistic and useless, which runs counter to what martial arts is supposed to be about.

To me, sportsmanship is following the rules (even if you know you could get away with cheating), and treating your opponent with the same respect you'd expect to be treated with.

I don't think that he's talking about grappling arts such a BJJ. What he's saying is that knocking a man down and then continuing to punch him while's he's obviously dazed and hurt is not respectful or sportmanslike. It's one of the main reasons why MMA won't be accepted by everyone in a long while IMO. Even though boxing and kickboxing are far more damaging on a person's brain watching a man knock someone down and then continue to pound on his practically lifeless body is as barbaric and assholish as it gets. I'm pissed whenever a guy knocks someone out cold and then continues to punch and punch, why did Gonzaga have to throw three more punches on Cro Cop even though Cro Cop was completely out? Where is the respect or honor in that? Punching a man who's completely unconscious, frankly, it disgusts me and it speaks volumes about the type of people that MMA fighters are. There are exceptions of course, but most guys will continue pounding on other people long after they're obviously completely out.

MMA is not a sportmanslike or respectful sport.

But grappling and BJJ are components of MMA, and in order to practice them in an environment that's anywhere near being realistic, you have allow someone to get punched on the ground.

Dropping a guy and then pursuing him with ground and pound isn't unsportsmanlike, it's a part of martial arts. That's great if your opponent lets you back up. But what if he doesn't? Learning how to survive the initial onslaught, regain composure and even turn the situation to your advantage to defeat your opponent right when he thinks you're finished.

I'll grant you late hits after a KO are a bit "unsportsmanlike" but I cut these guys some slack. Shit happens fast in competition and it isn't always immediately obvious that your opponent is done.
12/6/12 4:01 PM
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Hessian
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MMA is no longer the fastest growing sport. Sorry to break the news but paddle boarding now is the fastest growing sport.
12/6/12 4:06 PM
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Meohfumado
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sitchpack -  Has anyone here ever been in a pro MMA fight? Or does martial training.of any kind?

If not I would reserve judgement, you obviously do not understand.what a fighter goes through, and you never will. Hence all the losers on here judging the Diaz brothers for being a little rough around the edges, whilst they fondle their potbellies, go to jobs they despise, and hate on various people for various hippocritical reasons.

Its not like either of them have failed to make weight, or punched a dude.after the bell. Phone Post

Nope, don't recall them missing weight or punching a guy after the bell.

But they did jump a guy in the ring, and one started a fight in a hospital IIRC....


Not hating on either, or weighing in on the whole sportsmanship thing. But just thought that was an odd comment to make.
12/6/12 4:09 PM
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KZTT_W85
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verdum - that word, i do not think it means what nate thinks it means...
^ Phone Post
12/6/12 5:15 PM
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BshMstr
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nick diaz nut hugger -  BshMstr, is THIS your definition of combat? ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Oh, and legit apology for calling you retarded earlier Phone Post

Mortal Kombat? we're square now...
12/6/12 5:25 PM
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Tolstolobic
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I kinda agree..












209 muthafckers! Phone Post
12/6/12 7:29 PM
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ender852
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Edited: 12/06/12 7:30 PM
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How hard is it to be respectful, shake hands, don't cheat or break the rules, and don't act like an asshole win or lose when the competition is over?
It is a sport with rules you agreed to compete in, you don't have to hold yourself to any kind of standards if you don't want to, but you have no right to be pissed when you are judged for your poor form.


sitchpack -
BshMstr - uh, just for the record, MMA is a sport. that point seems lost on a lot of people here...

you want to go to war, then join up. MMA isn't war, and the comparison is stupid and made entirely too often.
It is a combat sport. Combat is fighting you disgusting retard, MMA has been dressed up as a sport to make it accessible to the world. You still have to beat seven bells of shit out of your opponent to win.


Fuck, what is it about the Diaz brothers that bring fucking idiots out of the woodwork?
The guy makes a valid, cogent point and you call him a disgusting retard?
I hope you get aids and die alone you sick excuse for a human being.

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