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UnderGround Forums >> Interesting Article about Marquez & PED's


12/9/12 8:08 PM
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tres_equis_666
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Elhoffo -
armbarseverywhere - Manny stepped square into the space between JMM's hips and caught a flush shot. There isn't a single steroid that can capitalize on that mistake. It was pure physics and boxing science coupled with great timing and years of training. No amount of PED can set that up for a fighter as well as Manny set up his own KO.
Completely agree on this. It's tough for people to comprehend that maybe Pacman just didn't train as hard for this fight as he should have and it showed in his performance. The guy is a congressman , singer , just finished a movie owns a basketball team and a lottery thing for charity and is also a boxer ... Well that shit will catch up with you. There was also talk that he didn't take the training camp as hard as he should have so it's not like it was a surprise. The other Marquez fights where wars and Manny was way more prepared and this one Marquez was better prepared and it showed. So unless Marquez pisses hot ill say that the Pacman lost and it's his own damn fault. I hope he gets it together because he is a great fighter and it would be a tragedy for him to lose his talent. Phone Post
It's a fact that Manny hasn't taken boxing seriously for at least the last 3 years.

Dude has many distractions in and out of the ring, and is not training as hard as he should. He has done nothing in Congress btw, and he might run for senate soon (and probably win)

Was JMM on PEDs? One would be naive to think not.

Was Pac on some shit too? Would say there's a chance.

No one will piss hot.

Unless Manny puts in the work needed, he should just quit. Phone Post
12/9/12 10:49 PM
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El_Varaco
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tres_equis_666 - 
Elhoffo -
armbarseverywhere - Manny stepped square into the space between JMM's hips and caught a flush shot. There isn't a single steroid that can capitalize on that mistake. It was pure physics and boxing science coupled with great timing and years of training. No amount of PED can set that up for a fighter as well as Manny set up his own KO.
Completely agree on this. It's tough for people to comprehend that maybe Pacman just didn't train as hard for this fight as he should have and it showed in his performance. The guy is a congressman , singer , just finished a movie owns a basketball team and a lottery thing for charity and is also a boxer ... Well that shit will catch up with you. There was also talk that he didn't take the training camp as hard as he should have so it's not like it was a surprise. The other Marquez fights where wars and Manny was way more prepared and this one Marquez was better prepared and it showed. So unless Marquez pisses hot ill say that the Pacman lost and it's his own damn fault. I hope he gets it together because he is a great fighter and it would be a tragedy for him to lose his talent. Phone Post
It's a fact that Manny hasn't taken boxing seriously for at least the last 3 years.

Dude has many distractions in and out of the ring, and is not training as hard as he should. He has done nothing in Congress btw, and he might run for senate soon (and probably win)

Was JMM on PEDs? One would be naive to think not.

Was Pac on some shit too? Would say there's a chance.

No one will piss hot.

Unless Manny puts in the work needed, he should just quit. Phone Post

this
12/9/12 11:43 PM
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JOESONDO
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Marquez's transformation over such a short period of time is pretty telling, especially so late in life. While Pacquiao did run into the last punch, the first one that knocked him down was not that solid yet it still planted him on his ass. Marquez landed plenty of solid punches in the first 3 fights and there was never this effect. Phone Post
12/10/12 12:39 AM
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blacksamurai
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armbarseverywhere - Manny stepped square into the space between JMM's hips and caught a flush shot. There isn't a single steroid that can capitalize on that mistake. It was pure physics and boxing science coupled with great timing and years of training. No amount of PED can set that up for a fighter as well as Manny set up his own KO.
You trolling brah? Phone Post
12/10/12 12:47 AM
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blacksamurai
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armbarseverywhere - Manny stepped square into the space between JMM's hips and caught a flush shot. There isn't a single steroid that can capitalize on that mistake. It was pure physics and boxing science coupled with great timing and years of training. No amount of PED can set that up for a fighter as well as Manny set up his own KO.
So he never ever caught Manny with a flush shot in 3 (36 round 108 mins of fighting) other fights? Phone Post
12/10/12 2:28 AM
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rundymc
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This isn't on par with Reem using.

Reem has an unnatural amount of muscle on him. If you look around natural bodybuilding shows, a literal handful of competitors have a comparable physique, and those guys are accused of using.

Marquez is merely cut/ripped. His build is absolutely achievable as a natural athlete. I know guys in BJJ who are just as lean and "big" as him, who are hobbyists who watch their diet.

That said, FUCK/YEAH the guy's on something. These are million dollar athletes who aren't tested in between fights, lol.

Rumors suggest Mayweather may have used leading up to a recent fight, and I won't be surprised if Pac used too. If you don't think these guys are on SOME form of illegal PED, you need to read up on things. Check out interviews done by Heredia himself, or Joe Rogan's recent podcast with Conte. Too easy to get away with, plenty of upside.

Also, to suggest that PEDs were somehow responsible for Marquez's KO last night is, well, ignorant. Has he hit Manny like that in previous fights? Sure. But he also hit Manny pretty hard a number of times leading up to the KO. This time, he had his 143lbs behind it, in addition to Manny stepping in with a southpaw jab.

Marquez gained a little muscle, but he didn't become a muscle-bound monster. He filled out his frame, PEDs or not. He's still smaller than Pac, and smaller than Mayweather.
12/10/12 9:53 AM
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sniper1026
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum - 

It's just a late life growth spurt

 


Pics say a thousand words....

These pics speak VOLUMES!!!

Wonder if Mayweather would fight the new cemically enhanced Marquez?

That ain't no P90X!!!
12/10/12 12:04 PM
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sniper1026
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Marquez weighs in lighter for tonight's Pacquiao fight

Jon Saraceno, USA TODAY Sports

2:09PM EST December 8. 2012 - LAS VEGAS — About this there can be no debate: Since hiring former PEDs supplier-turned-government witness Angel "Memo'' Hernandez as his strength coach last year, Juan Manuel Marquez's body has undergone a startling transformation. On Friday, his rippled physique was on dramatic display at the MGM Grand Arena.

The lingering uncertainty is how, at 39, did Marquez suddenly uncover a boxing fountain of youth in the form of impressive new muscle mass?

MORE: Pacquiao, Marquez each hope to end story with clear win

During the weigh-in for his fourth bout against Manny Pacquiao on Saturday night, the Mexican warrior did not look like a fighter who had engaged in five dozen brutal ring wars since 1993. Marquez tipped the scales at 143 pounds, four pounds under the maximum weight for a welterweight fight; Pacquiao, 33, weighed the maximum 147 pounds, the most he has ever weighed for a fight..

Freddie Roach, Pacquiao's trainer, recently told USA TODAY Sports that he wanted both camps to submit to pre-fight testing for performance-enhancing drugs because he is suspicious of Marquez's new physique.

"I asked Manny to do a drug test for this fight because I believe that Marquez is a much bigger person now — and I'm not sure exactly how he is getting there,'' Roach said.

The source of Roach's wariness is Hernandez, whose name was Angel Guillermo Heredia when he testified for the federal government in the BALCO steroids case in 2008, receiving immunity from prosecution for drug trafficking.

Roach said on Friday he was "just joking" and that he "meant no harm" by his comments about Marquez's bulked-up body.

Hernandez has a degree in kinesiology from Texas A&M and a sordid past when it comes to distributing illegal performance-enhancing drugs.

The former Mexican national champion discus thrower was an admitted supplier of numerous PEDs, including growth hormone and testosterone, to world-class athletes. For years, he worked with a number of star Olympians through now-banned track and field coach Trevor Graham.

Hernandez told prosecutors that former sprint star Maurice Greene paid him $40,000 for steroid creams, insulin, EPO and stimulants in 2003 and 2004.

Marquez, 39, repeatedly has denied he uses performance-enhancing drugs. He says that Hernandez has introduced him to scientific training methods that have enabled him to become stronger and faster at an age when virtually all fighters experience a physical decline.

"You have to understand that I'm a scientist and not just a strength coach,'' Hernandez told reporters this week. "Weight training has changed and a lot and evolved and, in the past, you would not see strength coaches around boxers.''

Hernandez claimed he has training "secrets'' that he does not want to disclose for competitive-advantage reasons.

"I don't want people to copy (my methods), but it's all legal, it's all within the law, and it's not illegal stuff,'' he said.

Marquez, asked by HBO whether weight was important for a fighter, said, "No. speed, intelligence and strength are most important."

12/12/12 11:11 AM
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sniper1026
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Sho_Gunn - 
armbarseverywhere - Manny stepped square into the space between JMM's hips and caught a flush shot. There isn't a single steroid that can capitalize on that mistake. It was pure physics and boxing science coupled with great timing and years of training. No amount of PED can set that up for a fighter as well as Manny set up his own KO.

This is pretty spot on. Just a perfectly timed punch. I was rooting for Pac but im also a huge fan of Marquez and really hope he didnt take any peds. 


armbarseverywhere is correct in his statement, BUT for Marquez who is not known for his KO ability & known as a counterpuncher...to knock down Manny twice is bit suspect.

The increased dramatic improvement of Marquez in the past 2-3 years in his LATE thirties is even more suspect.

The before & after pictures of Marquez from the Floyd Mayweather fight to his Manny Pacquiao fight speaks volumes AND raises a lot of red flags.
12/12/12 11:16 AM
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sniper1026
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Why would Marquez hire former PEDs supplier-turned-government witness Angel "Memo'' Hernandez as his strength & conditioning coach???
12/12/12 11:43 AM
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danggook
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Manny should have heededy advice and not taken the fourth fight. When youvr won 2 and 1 a draw theres nothing to be gained by anorher match Phone Post
12/12/12 12:08 PM
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whoabro
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i don't particularly care but jesus christ, it's fucking obvious that jmm is on gear. i'm sure pac is too so whatever.
12/12/12 12:09 PM
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TommyRSU
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If you think they both clean, you're naive.

If you think steroids won that fight, you don't know boxing.

$0.02

Tommy Phone Post
12/12/12 12:28 PM
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NdrCntrl
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. Phone Post
12/12/12 12:46 PM
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sniper1026
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TommyRSU -  If you think they both clean, you're naive.

If you think steroids won that fight, you don't know boxing.

$0.02

Tommy Phone Post

More than steroids...Olympic quality PED's

It is when you are generating power you never had.

It is when you are barely stunned by your opponents power shots. Shots that once floored you. (Watch 3 as well as 4, JMM was taking some serious shots. Ck out the CompuBox stats on both fights.)

It is when your athletic performance goes through the roof in what would be considered the twilight of your career...age 39.

No one has generated that much power in a short right since...uh Mike Tyson.

Are you saying JMM always had Mike Tyson punching power?
12/12/12 12:46 PM
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Samoa
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Probably a fifth if not a sixth fight going to happen now. Phone Post
12/12/12 12:47 PM
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sniper1026
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JMM didn't just put Manny P. on queer street with that shot, he floored him in a Mike Tysonesque manner.
12/12/12 1:02 PM
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patches
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so obvious ... you'd have to be a ra-tard to deny he is at least taking GH
12/12/12 1:11 PM
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bknumber1
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Who knows who is on what but the comment about roids not being a potential cause of the KO is off base. PEDs won't help your timing or boxing IQ but they sure as hell will give you more power for a longer time.

JMM always was a slick counter puncher catching Manny clean in every one of their fights. He went from never phasing him with those same shots to a cold KO. With everything else it's enough to raise an eyebrow. Still doesn't change the fact Pac shouldn't have been fighting him in the first place as it is stylistically a bad matchup and he already won three times (draw was a scoring error by one judge in the first dammit!). Phone Post
12/12/12 1:15 PM
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Rantuckjr
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“I feel very happy with my training, I feel great about the tests,” the Mexican fighter told the Los Angeles Times. “I won’t have a problem.”

Not, "i didnt do any PEDs".

Instead, "i feel great about the tests".


???????
12/12/12 2:29 PM
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sniper1026
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bknumber1 -  Who knows who is on what but the comment about roids not being a potential cause of the KO is off base. PEDs won't help your timing or boxing IQ but they sure as hell will give you more power for a longer time.

JMM always was a slick counter puncher catching Manny clean in every one of their fights. He went from never phasing him with those same shots to a cold KO. With everything else it's enough to raise an eyebrow. Still doesn't change the fact Pac shouldn't have been fighting him in the first place as it is stylistically a bad matchup and he already won three times (draw was a scoring error by one judge in the first dammit!). Phone Post

Correct!
12/12/12 3:07 PM
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mygodthisMMA
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If youre a guy who thought the trilogy was 2-0-1 for JMM already, then this talk is kind of ludicrous.

Somebody else said it best. If you think Pac or JMM are completely cean, you dont know shit. If you think PEDs had anything to do with Manny leaping in with his hands down and catching the hardest right JMM has thrown in 40 rounds right on the chin, you dont know shit about boxing. Phone Post
12/13/12 9:44 AM
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GunnarWreckedMyAssHAOLE
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mygodthisMMA -  Hey Mannyacs, remember the Mayweather camp swearing up and down that Pac is on a-side meth and other PEDs and how petty and ridiculous the claims sounded to you?

Yeah, you're doing that same thing now. Phone Post

do you remember when Manny hired a legendary PED dealer to train him & put 10 pounds of lean Muscle on his frame while pushig 40?

oh wait, lol

12/13/12 11:46 AM
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8flat
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Similar argument was made about Barry Bonds, BIg Mac, etc.....roids don't improve your hand-eye coordination, etc. But you can't argue that it doesn't make you hit harder......
12/16/12 3:09 AM
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rundymc
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circa305 - "If you think PEDs had anything to do with Manny catching the hardest right JMM has thrown in 40 rounds right on the chin, you dont know shit about boxing"

LOL at that comment. Re read that and try again you are not making any sense.

You guys do realize that PED allows him throw much faster harder punches right? Hence the results we saw. Of course the PEDs had something to do with him landing that shot and putting Manny out cold.

With all due respect, that is incorrect, and shows you do not know what you are talking about. I would enumerate the reasons so, but I fear it would fly over your head, so I'll leave it there.

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