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UnderGround Forums >> Serious Question for older Martial Artists -


1/28/13 8:37 PM
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dc1000
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Aged 37. Subbed Phone Post
1/28/13 10:29 PM
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prof
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Edited: 01/28/13 10:30 PM
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I'm 49.

Unlike the accomplished geezers on this thread I sure don't deserve the title "Martial Artist." I did Judo as a kid. TKD in my twenties then on to JKD and some BJJ into my thirties.

Stopped doing MA formally. Had kids. Gradually got out of shape. Now training myself again - shadowboxing, heavy bag, walking, running, swimming, biking, weights...whatever. Now I'm back in good shape.

I keep eyeing the local BJJ clubs thinking "man that was fun...should I?" But then I read threads like this and see all the accumulated injuries. At this age I'm less about competing with other guys and more interested in raising the quality of my life as I age. I feel very similar athletically as I did in my 20's and 30's, but even better insofar as I was always carrying MA-induced injuries back when I used to train. It's nice to feel in shape AND injury free. (Luckily I never had to have any major work done, no surgeries, no big injuries).

I think how you feel when you are older is a combo of luck, effort and genetics. My pal is my age - 49 - and his martial arts trajectory mirrored mine exactly. Except he's had hip surgery on both hips. Walks around stiffly like an old man, grunting when he tries to get off the sofa, etc. Whereas subjectively speaking I feel like in my 20's in terms of energy, health, ability to do whatever I want. I'm sure genetic predispositions have a good amount to do with the difference in how we are aging.

But I also envy the old guys on this thread who are still going in martial arts. Competing like that keeps those great peaks in your week, makes you feel really alive.

Prof.
1/28/13 10:37 PM
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Gomrad
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Ron Van Clief just turned 70 last week


http://www.whfsc.com/assets/9whfsc50.jpg Phone Post
1/28/13 10:45 PM
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prof
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BTW,

Geezer test:

Not long ago a new test for predicting health, infirmaty and early death in old age made the news. The test is whether you can sit down on the floor and stand back up with minimal or no aid, or additional bracing of yourself.

The better your score, the more indicative of later, better health/life-span. Details here:

-------------------------------------

“If a middle-aged or older man or woman can sit and rise from the floor using just one hand – or even better without the help of a hand – they are not only in the higher quartile of musculo-skeletal fitness but their survival prognosis is probably better than that of those unable to do so,”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57559095/sitting-and-standing-test-may-predict-mortality/

--------------------------------------

Out of curiosity I've had my family members do the test and several friends. It's interesting that even much younger people can have some trouble doing this test perfectly.

Given all the accumulated injuries discussed here, I'd be curious how folks in this thread would score.

Prof.
1/28/13 11:48 PM
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bhealthy
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where's our logo???
1/29/13 6:00 AM
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Master Bater
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LOGO FTW
1/29/13 7:14 AM
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juszczec
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prof - I'm 49.

Unlike the accomplished geezers on this thread I sure don't deserve the title "Martial Artist." I did Judo as a kid. TKD in my twenties then on to JKD and some BJJ into my thirties.

Stopped doing MA formally. Had kids. Gradually got out of shape. Now training myself again - shadowboxing, heavy bag, walking, running, swimming, biking, weights...whatever. Now I'm back in good shape.

I keep eyeing the local BJJ clubs thinking "man that was fun...should I?" But then I read threads like this and see all the accumulated injuries. At this age I'm less about competing with other guys and more interested in raising the quality of my life as I age. I feel very similar athletically as I did in my 20's and 30's, but even better insofar as I was always carrying MA-induced injuries back when I used to train. It's nice to feel in shape AND injury free. (Luckily I never had to have any major work done, no surgeries, no big injuries).

I think how you feel when you are older is a combo of luck, effort and genetics. My pal is my age - 49 - and his martial arts trajectory mirrored mine exactly. Except he's had hip surgery on both hips. Walks around stiffly like an old man, grunting when he tries to get off the sofa, etc. Whereas subjectively speaking I feel like in my 20's in terms of energy, health, ability to do whatever I want. I'm sure genetic predispositions have a good amount to do with the difference in how we are aging.

But I also envy the old guys on this thread who are still going in martial arts. Competing like that keeps those great peaks in your week, makes you feel really alive.

Prof.

First of all - here's to ya for starting to work out. You know as well as I do the number of people who just say "Oh fuck it" because its too time consuming or uncomfortable or its just plain old easier to sit on the couch and drink beer.

As for injuries - the bad ones, at least for me, happened when I was too dumb to take care of them when they were small ones.

If you wanna go back, go back. You can poke around here and find out who the good instructors are in your area. The number of people the UG/OG knows is just mind blowing.


1/29/13 2:39 PM
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prof
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^^^^^

Much obliged. Might do...

Prof.
1/29/13 2:51 PM
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juszczec
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prof - 
^^^^^

Much obliged. Might do...

Prof.

BTW if you're in NE Ohio I might be able to hook you up.
1/29/13 3:57 PM
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juszczec
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In fact, what's the cutoff age for members of the "older Martial Artists" club that was started here?

If you're in NE Ohio and are looking for a place to train, give me a holler at mark.juszczec@gmail.com

I'll tell you right now though, if you're in NE Ohio and you're looking to launch your MMA career then look up Evolve MMA in Medina, Ohio. I know some of those guys and if I wasn't running my own thing, I'd be training there.

I'm not hating on StrongStyle or Griffon Rawl or any of the other MMA gyms in the area - its just that I'm much more familiar with Evolve MMA than I am anyone else in the area.
1/29/13 5:25 PM
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cdueck
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My kyokushin instructor is 60 and has been training(Kyokushin) for 45 years. He has a bad knee that makes it difficult for him to train but he still bikes and hits the gym regularly. We sometimes need to look around at other people to realize that even though we are a bit broken we are still better off than most of the fat bastards out there. I am 39 and have some physical pain every day but I can tell you when I stop training even though the aches go away I feel much worse and turn into a bit of an asshole. It usually only takes about three weeks for my wife to start pushing me back to the gym.

1/29/13 5:30 PM
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juszczec
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cdueck - 

My kyokushin instructor is 60 and has been training(Kyokushin) for 45 years. He has a bad knee that makes it difficult for him to train but he still bikes and hits the gym regularly. We sometimes need to look around at other people to realize that even though we are a bit broken we are still better off than most of the fat bastards out there. I am 39 and have some physical pain every day but I can tell you when I stop training even though the aches go away I feel much worse and turn into a bit of an asshole. It usually only takes about three weeks for my wife to start pushing me back to the gym.


Yeah, same here. First major injury I had after I got married was a torn groin muscle.

No freaky gymnastic sex ya perverts, I slipped in a puddle of sweat as I was throwing a front kick.

Anyway, I was completely out of commission for a good month. Nothing. No walking. Nothing. After the month was up I dragged myself thru a workout and suddenly felt "nicer"

I asked my wife and yeah, she confirmed for the month I was off I was an absolute pain in the ass.

1/29/13 5:38 PM
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andrewn
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prof - 
BTW,

Geezer test:

Not long ago a new test for predicting health, infirmaty and early death in old age made the news. The test is whether you can sit down on the floor and stand back up with minimal or no aid, or additional bracing of yourself.

The better your score, the more indicative of later, better health/life-span. Details here:

-------------------------------------

“If a middle-aged or older man or woman can sit and rise from the floor using just one hand – or even better without the help of a hand – they are not only in the higher quartile of musculo-skeletal fitness but their survival prognosis is probably better than that of those unable to do so,”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57559095/sitting-and-standing-test-may-predict-mortality/

--------------------------------------

Out of curiosity I've had my family members do the test and several friends. It's interesting that even much younger people can have some trouble doing this test perfectly.

Given all the accumulated injuries discussed here, I'd be curious how folks in this thread would score.

Prof.

That test is a bugbear for me.

I did a standing backflip on my 58th birthday but because of minor knee injuries I still have trouble standing up without using one hand or knee on the ground. no problems standing up in base or doing shin rolls, though.
1/29/13 6:46 PM
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Master Bater
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welcome to the new guys on the thread -

update, i just got back from a double session of stand up and then grappling... im always ok in the stand up as i can "clever" my way around it after so many years of practice..

now i grappled a number of guys without any problems, but the last one was a big dude, who outweighed me by about 45lbs (im about 190, he is 230+) and i had him under control, transitioned for a sub an ended up on bottom, him in my half guard... now i had him in the lockdown, ready to sweep, but i could not move him??? and now my left knee is killing me?? it left me feeling a little down on myself on the way home, but then i thought... he is 30 and i am 45 this year, let alone the weight difference....

let me here about your last training experience? or regular updates after class would be great
1/29/13 6:49 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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I am 38 and felt invincible until two weeks ago when I think I tore something in my knee.  Going in for an MRI this week, sounds like there will likely be surgery based on this not getting any better.  Depressed from being out of the gym, makes me realize my body might stop cooperating some day.

1/29/13 8:31 PM
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Master Bater
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thats not good dude. what does it feel like?

i rip and tear thing all the bloody time, i wish i was not such a fool as i never get things checked... i wish our doctors in the UK took our injuries more seriously, because we just end up thinking its a waste of time getting things looked at.

this is why we (i know i) have so many problems today :/ last time i insisted on getting something check i was told i had 3 broken ribs, but it was already healing as it was bout 8 weeks before?

i am such a idiot with not getting injuries checked.. i hope it goes well for you bud
1/29/13 9:24 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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It popped while I was stepping back over lockdown, felt fine, then couldn't walk the next day, started feeling better a few days later but couldn't compress the knee to kneel or it hurt like hell, went back to the gym and was knee sliding through half guard and it bend sideways, rolled around till it wasn't excruciating, took a break (hobbling past an oblivious Pat Barry bro) then worked guard no prob, finished a few triangles, felt fine. Couldn't walk the next day, now I can't bend it the way I would have to just to sit in guard. Going to get an MRI thurs, hoping its an easy snip and I'm back in a few weeks. Phone Post
1/29/13 9:54 PM
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Moke
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I had the same exact thing happen while back-stepping someone's extremely tight lockdown (someone from the UG!). I tore my LCL...or was it the MCL? I forget because I've ripped those on both legs so many times. Either way, a decent tear will take 6 weeks to heal, so don't be freaking out that after 2 weeks you're going to need surgery. It's always possible, I don't know the true extent of your tear, but for the most part, a good tear takes 6 weeks in an over-the-counter knee brace.
1/29/13 10:01 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Six weeks would be just fine, I got a referral to a good sports medicine place so should be good. Going to watch YouTube vids in the meantime and try not to gain 20 pounds Phone Post
1/29/13 10:21 PM
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hewsdaddy
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Sparing with mma head gloves and no head gear? Good luck Phone Post
1/30/13 4:45 AM
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philodox
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Hi (old) dudes... been lurking in your thread.

Saw that you guys wanted an OFTT logo but there hasn't one been made, so I had one made for you:

http://i.imgur.com/MZIKpSt.jpg
1/30/13 5:24 AM
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per
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Master Bater - welcome to the new guys on the thread -

update, i just got back from a double session of stand up and then grappling... im always ok in the stand up as i can "clever" my way around it after so many years of practice..

now i grappled a number of guys without any problems, but the last one was a big dude, who outweighed me by about 45lbs (im about 190, he is 230+) and i had him under control, transitioned for a sub an ended up on bottom, him in my half guard... now i had him in the lockdown, ready to sweep, but i could not move him??? and now my left knee is killing me?? it left me feeling a little down on myself on the way home, but then i thought... he is 30 and i am 45 this year, let alone the weight difference....

let me here about your last training experience? or regular updates after class would be great

Look after that knee, other than that sounds like you are doing well and are having fun.

As for me (30), I have had difficulty catching the MMA sessions at the club lately because of my work schedule and I don't like running in the winter, can't possibly be good for the throat and lungs. But last friday I was able to get to training, we warmed up and did some kicking exercises and then standup sparring. Kicking to the head is difficult nowadays, I mostly end up on their shoulder and somewhat off balance. I am simply too unexplosive to kickbox well with the younger guys (I haven't trained since my teens so I am a few years older than my real age...) so I rely on leg kicks and being unorthodox, bobbing and weaving, moving sideways and pounding the body, getting to the clinch and dirty box.

A couple rounds of MMA after that, caught with a slow double-leg but my sprawl felt achingly slow. Shrimped and got to full guard easily, my body feels good now, no pains as of right now. Tried for the armbar but could not get it. Stood up, pulled guard and got mission control which I often try to work with because the others have no idea what rubber guard is. I hardly know either though so as they stand up from it and I try to slap the triangle on they slip out anyway.

Huffing and puffing after 1 round of course. Normal.



Let me insert something about pain here: As we get older it becomes more normal to be in pain from training, when I was 17 I would sprain an ankle and hobble around for a bit and be perfectly fine after a couple of days. Now stuff like that hurts for weeks. We need to come to terms with that in order to live well we have to also take a little pain that comes with it sometimes. My knees and joints will be sore sometimes, I may have some back pain but it is just how it is. This summer when I trained hard I injured several ribs and it takes weeks for those to be well. I finally realized that what I was doing was constantly taking time off for not being injured and unable to train, just because of slight pains. I decided that I would simply train anyway and told my training partners to go easy on my ribs, worked out just fine. With some moaning and grunting.

If you do it that way, you may end up doing hardly anything. There is no point in that. Listen to your body and consult experts if necessary, we need to avoid pushing too hard and breaking stuff but pushing through pain that is not a sign of imminent injury is something we may often have to do.


My grandfather is wrecked. He can still move and function well but his back and knees have him in pain all the time but he still does stuff and walks in the woods. Some will tell him "you shouldn't walk if your knees hurt" but he thinks, what else is there to do? Lay down and wait for death? It can take decades and be boring as fuck. Old farts can still keep in shape and do fun stuff, we just need to man up a bit more, push harder and stop just short of that injury.
1/30/13 1:19 PM
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Mitey Mouze
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Great thread...just turned 40 recently. Injuries really started accumulating about 5 years ago...knee pain, seperated shoulder, torn Achilles. Once I tore the Achilles, I pretty much bailed on standup and now only do grappling. Like others have said, fish oil, naps, and weight training seem to help. Still train bjj 3 or 4 days a week and lift 3 days a week, but definitely use moderation when it comes to intensity. If my body feels beat up, it's time to take a day off. Phone Post
1/30/13 6:44 PM
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juszczec
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I think the OP asked for posts about the last workout. Ok.

Sun - boxed/kickboxed for an hour while teaching
Mon - BWE
Tue - wanted to swim, realized the car was at the shop
striking/grappling drills for an hour and a half while teaching
Wed - OFF, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh feels so good, slept late
1/31/13 2:57 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Ortho guy told me he suspects an ACL tear today, which really surprised me because it didn't hurt at all when it happened, but I'm banking on this really experienced guy being wrong when I go for my MRI today :D


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