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UnderGround Forums >> Relson: Don't know self-defense? U don't know BJJ


12/12/12 9:48 AM
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Underground Blog
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MixedMartialArts.com
 

Mixed Martial Arts was born from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. BJJ has since moved largely towards a sports focus, primarily sport BJJ, and to a lesser extent MMA. Self-defense has fallen as the primary purpose, as noted by Relson Gracie, when Connection Rio guests got the opportunity to train with the master at his academy in Leblon, Brazil.

"Helio Gracie Jiu-Jitsu - that's the only source in Brazil right now to teach self-defense," explains Relson. "A lot of positions, like Butterfly (guard) for sport, these don't work for street fights… Helio Gracie says, 'you don't know self-defense, you don't know Jiu-Jitsu.'"

If you want a BJJ camp in Rio, a vacation where you train jiu-jitsu in Rio, or just the best jiu-jitsu experience of your life, then Connection Rio is the way to do it. They specialise in accommodation for independent travellers and can hook you up with training anywhere in the city.


12/12/12 11:24 AM
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joe canada
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Anyone else notice Relson stole Bas Rutten's defensive "the thinker" posture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oc4BGmOp-A

Bas Rutten, a legend's legend!
12/12/12 11:30 AM
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ShoeMoney
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Of course you don't know any self defense if you don't know BJJ (or any martial art).

In other news if you can't add numbers together then you don't know math.

12/12/12 11:50 AM
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D241
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http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2092305

 

 

21 days ago.   I found this thread b/c I saw a different thread than these two, which had a relson documentary in subtittles. I was trying to find it and typed in Relson and when I realized that thread of 21 days ago wasn't it, I had a feeling UG news' story on the front page today might be the same as this 21 day old thread. lol, i was right

12/12/12 11:59 AM
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Kirik
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D241 - 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2092305

 

 

21 days ago.   I found this thread b/c I saw a different thread than these two, which had a relson documentary in subtittles. I was trying to find it and typed in Relson and when I realized that thread of 21 days ago wasn't it, I had a feeling UG news' story on the front page today might be the same as this 21 day old thread. lol, i was right


Chris missed that.

12/12/12 12:00 PM
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Kirik
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joe canada - Anyone else notice Relson stole Bas Rutten's defensive "the thinker" posture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oc4BGmOp-A

Bas Rutten, a legend's legend!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Relson has been doing that longer :-)

12/12/12 12:03 PM
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JoeVIP
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Edited: 12/12/12 12:05 PM
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Of course you don't know any self defense if you don't know BJJ (or any martial art).



In other news if you can't add numbers together then you don't know math.


Just because you practice a martial art doesn't mean you practice self defense. BJJ and MMA included. I have lost intrest in BJJ because it doesn't have anything to do with self defense anymore. It's all about sport grappling and medals. It has become Judo and wrestling in my eyes. Yes some things do cross over to self defense but it's mainly a sport now.
12/12/12 12:10 PM
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KidJustice
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ttt

12/12/12 12:28 PM
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cheesesteak
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I'm grateful that my instructor an old school Gracie Barra blackbelt still enforces that we learn the self defense. I don't understand why you wouldn't teach that or at least offer it for the ones who want to learn it.

I have taken various martial arts and various American and japanese JJ and have come to find that the self defense in BJJ is much more practical against grabs, bear hugs, headlocks etc.
12/12/12 12:50 PM
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D241
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Correction, the documentary I was looking for was on Rorion, not Relson.

 

If anyone is interested....

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/ns/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2099850#post-42334329

12/12/12 12:55 PM
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Kirik
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D241 - 

Correction, the documentary I was looking for was on Rorion, not Relson.

 

If anyone is interested....

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/ns/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2099850#post-42334329


I was right all along!

12/12/12 12:55 PM
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Hywel Teague
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Thanks for putting our vid on the front page :)

Relson is awesome, was very cool to meet him and get a feel for his version of GJJ. Phone Post
12/12/12 12:59 PM
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D241
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Kirik - 
D241 - 

Correction, the documentary I was looking for was on Rorion, not Relson.

 

If anyone is interested....

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/ns/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2099850#post-42334329


I was right all along!


Not really.

 

If you search for Relson, the 21 day old post of the same subject matter of this thread comes up.

 

I'm just saying I was trying to find a Gracie documentary thread I thought was on Relson, but it was on Rorion. When I did a search for Relson, I found that today's UG blog thread had been done by someone else 21 days ago.

 

No big deal. I'm about to smoke and enjoy some mma documentaries and chill on the UG for a while! Thanks for making that all possible big dog!! woof woof

12/12/12 1:25 PM
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Ministry of Truth
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Of course you don't know any self defense if you don't know BJJ (or any martial art).

In other news if you can't add numbers together then you don't know math.


I think you mean "you don't know addition." Knowing how to add numbers does not equate with knowing math.

But yeah, I agree.
12/12/12 2:22 PM
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Motivated Penn
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joe canada - Anyone else notice Relson stole Bas Rutten's defensive "the thinker" posture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oc4BGmOp-A

Bas Rutten, a legend's legend!

But does he deliver a headbutt out of nothing?
12/12/12 2:24 PM
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Bloody Pregnancy Fluids
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Anyone training any fighting art regularly is pretty covered for "self defense".



I guarantee that anyone who is performing well in BJJ tournies is going to be just fine on the streets....
12/12/12 3:40 PM
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Ministry of Truth
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"I guarantee that anyone who is performing well in BJJ tournies is going to be just fine on the streets...."

I wouldn't guarantee that.

I started off w/Gracie Barra and the first things I learned were all the self-defense GJJ stuff.

I have since trained at a highly competitive sport BJJ school and most of the guys have no idea of the GJJ self-defense basics, and aren't taught that stuff at all.

If any of those guys haven't been in a streetfight before, they would have no idea what to do based on their training.

12/12/12 3:46 PM
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Unseen
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Bloody Pregnancy Fluids - Anyone training any fighting art regularly is pretty covered for "self defense".



I guarantee that anyone who is performing well in BJJ tournies is going to be just fine on the streets....

No.  Here in San Diego we have a BJJ or MMA school almost every 5 miles.  In the last ten years i'ver personally seen plenty of BJJ guys get KO'ed on the street for different reasons.  

  1. Going for Judo grips against a drunken rage monster (saw this happen 3 times).
  2. Shooting on guys who are against a wall, then taking multiple shots to the back of the head when the opponent doesn't go down (saw this happen twice).
  3. Underestimating opponents (Blue Belt vs. Camp Pendleton Marine with wrestling background.  Knew both guys, happened at a party).
I'm a BJJ guy and I know hundreds of BJJ competitors due to my job.  Yes most BJJ guys I've seen in fights have won but you need to have stategy for the streets just as you do for competitions.  Also many BJJ guys don;t have advanced takedowns and there are a lot of "average joes" that wrestled in high school.
12/12/12 3:56 PM
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JoeVIP
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Bloody Pregnancy Fluids - Anyone training any fighting art regularly is pretty covered for "self defense".



I guarantee that anyone who is performing well in BJJ tournies is going to be just fine on the streets....

This is so un true it's not even funny. I'm pretty sure the first 10 or so UFC's proved this false.
12/12/12 4:03 PM
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Bloody Pregnancy Fluids
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Bloody Pregnancy Fluids - Anyone training any fighting art regularly is pretty covered for "self defense".



I guarantee that anyone who is performing well in BJJ tournies is going to be just fine on the streets....

No.  Here in San Diego we have a BJJ or MMA school almost every 5 miles.  In the last ten years i'ver personally seen plenty of BJJ guys get KO'ed on the street for different reasons.  

  1. Going for Judo grips against a drunken rage monster (saw this happen 3 times).
  2. Shooting on guys who are against a wall, then taking multiple shots to the back of the head when the opponent doesn't go down (saw this happen twice).
  3. Underestimating opponents (Blue Belt vs. Camp Pendleton Marine with wrestling background.  Knew both guys, happened at a party).
I'm a BJJ guy and I know hundreds of BJJ competitors due to my job.  Yes most BJJ guys I've seen in fights have won but you need to have stategy for the streets just as you do for competitions.  Also many BJJ guys don;t have advanced takedowns and there are a lot of "average joes" that wrestled in high school.

I am not saying a blue belt = unbeatable on the streets.


I am just saying that someone who trains BJJ is going to be a lot more capable of defending themselves then someone who does not train BJJ...
12/12/12 5:10 PM
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NickLaney
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Ministry of Truth - 
ShoeMoney - 

Of course you don't know any self defense if you don't know BJJ (or any martial art).

In other news if you can't add numbers together then you don't know math.


I think you mean "you don't know addition." Knowing how to add numbers does not equate with knowing math.

But yeah, I agree.

I think you both misunderstood the statement.. I believe what he meant was that you can learn BJJ (Chokes and joint locks normally associated with competition) but if you dont also learn the self defense techniques (how to escape from bear hugs and headlocks) then you dont really "know" a complete Jiu Jitsu.

Im not smart enough to come up with a better math analogy, maybe self defense would be the numbers and Sport BJJ would be addition, subtraction etc, they are parts that make up the whole of the art (Gracie Jiu Jitsu or Mathematics)
12/12/12 5:21 PM
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KidJustice
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Relson Gracie Jiu Jitsu is heavy on Self defense technique. That is why I'm a Relson Gracie student. I love BJJ, but I also love that there is a very proven self defense system that Relson is very serious about.

12/12/12 5:30 PM
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madbanker
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I dont understand the butterfly guard comment. In my opinion, it is the easiest way to end up on top if for some reason your take downs sux Phone Post
12/12/12 5:43 PM
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Relson Gracie Jiu Jitsu is heavy on Self defense technique. That is why I'm a Relson Gracie student. I love BJJ, but I also love that there is a very proven self defense system that Relson is very serious about.


Both KidJustice and I are on Team Relson Gracie, and KidJustice is one of the best self defense instructors I know so I am going to go out on a limb and say if he says that TRG is heavy on self defense and very effective at it then that is how it is.

I can tell you I have had the pleasure of training under a few different BJJ guys and the stuff we learn, at least to me is more effective than what I have learned other places. Don't get me wrong I learned a lot at other places, but I am enjoying what I am getting on this team more than I have others. It seems to me that Roger's game is a lot like Relsons. He is so good at the basics, and doesn't make things more complcated than they should be. That is why we see Roger tap guys with things that people say are so basic they do not understand how other high level guys are getting tapped with that stuff.

I love learning the self defense aspect of it, but at the same time there are some amazing black belts on TRG and affiliated with TRG that the competitors are no joke either. To just give you an idea of how effective the people who compete in Colorado are Team Relson Gracie has been around in Denver since late 2009-2010 and according to a few promoters we are the fastest growing teams in the state, and we are placing in overall team standing higher than other teams that have been around for years. We have opened up 4 different gyms in the Denver area and have over 300 students. I know at the gym KidJustice and I go to has the largest kids program I have ever seen. People want to learn what works and what doesn't, and judging by the growth of the team here the curriculum, and the that Relson passed down to the black belts who run the gyms here obviously is different, effective, and works.

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12/12/12 5:52 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Kirik - 
joe canada - Anyone else notice Relson stole Bas Rutten's defensive "the thinker" posture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oc4BGmOp-A

Bas Rutten, a legend's legend!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Relson has been doing that longer :-)



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