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UnderGround Forums >> Each UFC card should only Feature 1 Weight Class


12/14/12 3:08 AM
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MMALOGIC
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YOURMMASTORE -  I think that is a cool idea. Some people have questioned the depth of the weight classes, maybe it could be main card only, the prelims coils be a mix as they are now. Phone Post

I say start with one that already has the depth... perfect the system then roll out to the next one that has the depth and by the time you get to the last one they'll all have the depth.

they all have the depth now... you just may need to go to eastern europe to get it.

12/14/12 3:17 AM
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CLINTK9
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MMALOGIC - 
JBASS - 
MMALOGIC - 
Ryan Black -  Hmm...

This idea has merit, indeed; but I'd like to experiment more with it in this hypothetical discussion.

There are obviously some great ideas here- but we should also be looking for the potential negatives as well, and you happen to run into a lot of questions when it comes to weighing risks vs. benefit. Lets lay out the possible negatives, just to examine this as realistically as possible.

Like I said, lot of good ideas- lots of good insight, and some nice outside-the-box thinking at play here. At what point do you think it would be easiest for the UFC to implement these kinds of cards? And, that being said- at what point do you think we'd see this new platform of UFC matchmaking start paying dividends- to the fighters, the UFC, and the fans? How long would it take, in your opinion- for this platform to payoff and really take-off?

Cool idea, awesome idea for a thread- as this is the type of intelligent hypothetical discussion that creates positive exchanges and thoughtful discourse, IMO. Phone Post

the best way to impliment this in my opinion is to start with one weight class... test the efficacy and success of it, perfect the system then rolll it out to the next weight class and then the next... so on and so forth.

I would start with the 155lb class because it has matured in depth, and it's not a real ppv property yet so this pilot program has little risk.

as far as how soon everyone (fans, zuffa and the fighters) will see the benefits... id say both immediately and long term. 

as we've seen with ufc 146... it was an all HW main card with 2 guys pulling out one of which was in the main event.  the card was still a success both from a ppv buy perspective and from an experiential/fan perspective.

short term this would solve the injury problem.  long term this would turn the UFC into a real league like the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc...  where people are following and buying tickets to the giants instead of eli manning. it would revolutionize fight sports.

Each UFC event would be like the superbowl of fight sports.

the more popular GSP is the more popular every other welterweight on his cards become.  the star equity spreads.

Under this structure... if johnny hendricks beat sadollah, pierce, fitch, koscheck, and kampmann on all welterweight cards instead of sporadically spread out and mixed on different cards... the GSP/Hendricks fight would be a mega event right now and we wouldnt have to resort to boxing style matchmaking to sell fights.

infact almost every GSP title defense would be a "Nick Diaz" type of money fight. 

each event would be huge and the equity ball would keep getting bigger and bigger even after GSP's reign.  there would be so much history and depth of experience with each division.


The problem I see with that is that Hendro would have to fight on virtually every WW card to get to title contention - something that is not exactly realistic when you have as many fighters in the WW division as what the UFC has. Under that model, it could possibly take a fighter years to get to title contention.

 

I disagree.  He could miss an event... when he comes back he'll start right where he left off.at worst he'll move back one spot.  If his next fight was supposed to be a title eliminator and he cant make it, he'll likely get that same spot the next event. 

 

if you have to pull out it's only fair the next guy in line takes your spot.

if you're injured you're gonna be out a few months on average anyway.

Let's look at Johnny's UFC run under the current system.  He began his run with a win over TJ walburger in march 2011.  he went on a 5 fight winning streak and still doesnt have a title shot... and to my knowledge he never pulled out during this time due to injury.

Here's the result of the current model: 

this march will be 2 years and he's only had 5 fights which he won (3 of which were over top 5 guys),  he has no title shot, and nobody outside of the hardcores are asking for this fight.

Now in the model being proposed in this thread... Johnny would have had 6 fights in 2 years... more importantly the 6th being a title fight and most importantly everyone would be asking for it.

this is how his run would look like:

- he TKO's tj waldburger on an all WW prelim card.

some interest is shown... this guy could be a factor in the ww division.

- he gets a tougher fight on the prelims of the next all WW card against mike pierce (who also is coming in with a tko of kenny robertson on the same previous prelim card.... so this fight was already sold... wink, wink).  Hendricks decisons Mike Pierce.

- with a win over a quality opponent Hendricks is moved to the main card of the next all WW event against JOn Fitch.   Hendricks knocks him the fuck out.

casual fans (not just the underground) start picturing how this guy would do against GSP.

- Hendricks gets his next test in koscheck.... again on the next all ww event on the main card.  He wins.

people are now familiar with this guy and his threat to GSp. he has now beaten 2 top WW's. 

- Hendricks gets a  title eliminator against kampmann (who's also coming off impressive wins against thiago silva and ellenberger on the same cards as hendricks)... it's a collision courses months in the making.  Hendricks knocks him the fuck out.

Now our uncles and aunts are telling us how this guy is gonna beat GSP... we go to our granddmothers house and she seems concerned for GSP.  evey water cooler is talking about GSP vs Hendricks.

Im being dramtic to illustrate the clear difference.

in the model being proposed here you can see just how much more relevant and important Johnnys fight against mike pierce is.  forget about the title fight... we can see how much more weight the kampmann vs Hendricks fight would have if both guys came up under this structure.

it's like a drama series... you're just waiting for this guy to eventually fuck that girl even though they are so far apart at the moment... by season 3 she's sucking his dick.

when you see all these ww's chunked together your mind pictures all the possibilities after each event. who's gonna fuck who next... i mean who's gonna fight who next.  what it's gonna be like, etc...


Legit LOL at the end there guy!

Great post too!
12/14/12 3:50 AM
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MarkRobinson
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Couldn't the same interest in weight classes be created by implementing an honest discourse about the rankings during each event? Taking a brief look, with highlights, of the recent happenings in each division would be just as relevant, right?

If they took a few moments to address what's happening in each division then all fans would have a legitimate idea of the ebb and flow of challengers.

An actual hierarchy of achievement in the weight classes could be a bit convoluted because styles make fights. So a fighter overcoming a bad match up in impressive fashion may make him a more credible opponent for the champ than the actual #1 contender under your structure.

Also, fan favorites, think (berry or leban) that arent actually close to title contention would be relegated to prelims instead of bolstering a "boring" fight card filled with legitimate contenders (think Fitch haters).

I really appreciate your thoughts on this though. I'm open to the idea but if I had to choose at this point, I'd rather not see your plan come to fruition.

Divisions don't work like regional football teams. I represent all California teams in football, basketball and baseball because im from cali. but I wouldn't represent 170/185 because I weigh that much.

Honest an comprehensive discourse about the divisions> unofficial official tournament style cards

Injuries fuck up an actual ranking system. Phone Post
12/14/12 3:56 AM
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MarkRobinson
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I think another fact of the matter is that people cheer for fighters more than they are concerned about the number 2, 3 or 4th contenders.

You might be close to a title shot but if you're boring then... Well, impress me and well talk.

Not exactly my opinion but I think it is the general scope of the many. Phone Post
12/14/12 4:29 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/14/12 4:39 AM
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MarkRobinson -  Couldn't the same interest in weight classes be created by implementing an honest discourse about the rankings during each event? Taking a brief look, with highlights, of the recent happenings in each division would be just as relevant, right?

If they took a few moments to address what's happening in each division then all fans would have a legitimate idea of the ebb and flow of challengers.

An actual hierarchy of achievement in the weight classes could be a bit convoluted because styles make fights. So a fighter overcoming a bad match up in impressive fashion may make him a more credible opponent for the champ than the actual #1 contender under your structure.

Also, fan favorites, think (berry or leban) that arent actually close to title contention would be relegated to prelims instead of bolstering a "boring" fight card filled with legitimate contenders (think Fitch haters).

I really appreciate your thoughts on this though. I'm open to the idea but if I had to choose at this point, I'd rather not see your plan come to fruition.

Divisions don't work like regional football teams. I represent all California teams in football, basketball and baseball because im from cali. but I wouldn't represent 170/185 because I weigh that much.

Honest an comprehensive discourse about the divisions> unofficial official tournament style cards

Injuries fuck up an actual ranking system. Phone Post

 

highlighting the current state of a division before every divisional fight wouldnt be practical... and if you only do it for title fights or #1 contender fights well it's not really necessary because those fights are already relevant and the viewers have some sort of context to their importance.

 

let's take a micro view of this... 

Fitch vs Eric Silva  and Maia vs Rick Story were on the same card.  you now have maia vs fitch.  automatically that fight became more relevant and people have more context to it as opposed to if they were on different cards.

if those 2 original fights happened on an all ww card the effect would be even greater... it would be perceived as even more relevant and the context would be even more apparent when maia and ficth ultimately meet... moreover, the winners next fight will be more relevant.... because his next opponent likely went through the same thing on the same cards.  you see the natural hype wave this model creates?

now when i say more relevant... it's already relevant in reality no matter where it is but the relevance and context would be understood by the casual viewer and hammered home even to the hardcore viewer.

we are simply chunking the product to how our mind is trying to consume it anyway... whenever we see these fights we place it in context to what we know of their division so as hardcore fans we understand the relevance and context more so than the casual viewer.

as far as heirarchy... im not advocating a fixed ranking system to determine the fights.  matchmaking is still involved,  in general the top 10 guys are on the main card and guys who are working to get into the top 10 are on the prelims.

UFC in general does a pretty good job in identifying who the best guy is and who the #1 contender is with their match making.  im just saying organize all those fights to determine that on the same cards.

yes there are differences in home town teams and a division... my point is that the divisions will also become a major part of the product... not just the fighter.

under the model proposed in this thread you wouldnt have to start from promotional scratch with the LW division if BJ penn leaves.  in this proposed model BJ's star equity would spread and shared more effectively.

a rising tide lifts all boats... so the bigger star the champ is the bigger everyone else in the division become and thus the transition of a new champ is an easier promotional job.

as far as the Jon Fitch types... he's still been on main cards under the current system... even main evented a card against BJ penn.  again im not proposing a fixed ranking system... you still need matchmaking to make the best fights.

Im just saying organize all those fights from a division onto one card.  Zuffa still needs some freedom of matchmaking to create the contenders and future champs.

you may not prefer this structure... but before you finalize you're opionion take a look at how these HW, LHW, MW, WW and LW cards would look like...  these are mma superbowl cards.  People on the underground would suck dick for cards like this.

the major sticking point im seeing from most here are the FW's, BW's and FLW's.  if you have to sit through a FW or BW card which will likely be on free TV so you can have these HW, LHW, MW, WW cards life aint too bad.

the WEC was exclusively lighter weights and the overwhelming consensus was that the wec was either the best or tied with the best mma product.

I suspect they will change their tune and fall in love with the lighter weights if they are organized in the manner proposed in this thread.  I suspect if this format is implimented nobody will ever want to sit through a mixed card again because it will seem too disjointed... no rhyme or reason behind it.... it wont make any sense.

 

12/14/12 4:35 AM
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MMALOGIC
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MarkRobinson -  I think another fact of the matter is that people cheer for fighters more than they are concerned about the number 2, 3 or 4th contenders.

You might be close to a title shot but if you're boring then... Well, impress me and well talk.

Not exactly my opinion but I think it is the general scope of the many. Phone Post

they can still cheer for fighters in the model proposed in this thread...  what happens before they get behind and start cheering for fighters? 

they see Eric Silva look awesome on a mixed card... what are they cheering him for?  the casual viewer cant even project a path to the title for him.

i addressed the confusion regarding the problems you see with the rankings above... in short im not proposing a fixed ranking system.

The UFC in general does a very good job in matchmaking to develop top 10 talent, to get guys into the mix and to develop #1 contenders and future champs...  all im saying is simply take that matchmaking for a division and place it all on the same events.

12/14/12 4:45 AM
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mofomike
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Perfect. Phone Post
12/14/12 5:04 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Here's what a HW card could look like in this model:

main card:

JDS vs Overeem

Cain vs Werdum (title eliminator)

Struve vs  Cormier (winner in next title eliminator)

Kongo vs Big Nog (winner in next title eliminator)

Mir vs Barnett (winner gets back into the mix)

Prelim card:

Roy Nelson vs Rothwell

Mark Hunt vs Antonio Silva

Gonazaga vs Miocic

delrosario vs pat barry

Brandon Shuab vs Lavar Johnson

Facebook fight:

Mittrione vs russow

**************************

now who doesnt want cards like this?  some of you would suck dick for cards like this.

Now with a 25% injury rate we've had for the past 3 yeaars it means on average we'll see 3 fighters per card pulling out. imagine 4 guys pull out.  You shuffle it around and it's still an epic card... and since every HW in the world knows this date is the HW card there will be tons of guys waiting for the call.

imagine a HW card like this 3 times a year...   imagine 3 of these guys cant make the next card... no problem :)

This model virtually eliminates the injury problems.  this is just one benefit.

these cards will be mega cards.  suprobowl cards.  the sport will be easier to follow. the casual viewer will be able to understand the relevance and context of each fight as well as you and I (hardcore fans) do.

Imagine bringing up a contender ro becoming a champion through this model... imagine JDS coming up through this model... he'd be a household name. 

Every event would be an mma orgasm...  this would revolutionize fight sports.

how can anyone look at that card and complain abou a BW or FW card that would likely be on free TV?

 

 

12/14/12 5:14 AM
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Edited: 12/14/12 5:28 AM
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Now let's look at what a LHW card could look like in this model:

Main Crad:

Jones vs Hendo

Machida vs Gustaffson (title eliminator)

Glover vs Rampage (winner could fight in next title eliminator)

Rashad vs Little Nog (winner fights in next title eliminator)

Shogun vs Mousasi (winner goes onto the mix)

Prelim:

phil davis vs vinny mag

tehuna vs jiimmo

manuwa vs diabate

Bader vs thiago silva

hamill vs vera

feijao vs igor pokrach

 

You still bitching about having to watch a BW card????  look at that mma orgasm for goodness sakes...

imagine having a light heavy weight card like that 3 times a year.

Now let's play...  Hendo gets injured... no problem.  machida or Gustaffson is on deck and it's still an epic card.  Let's say Jones is throwing a bitch fit because his daddy greg jackson doesnt like the short notice fight... no problem :). 

Set up an interim title... bada bing.  still an Epic card.  everyone who bought tickets are still getting their moneys worth.  the card still sells.  and the world keeps turning.

3 cards like this every year... you still complaining about the lighter weights?  bitches please...

12/14/12 5:27 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Let's look at what a MW card could look like in this model:

Main card:

Anderson vs Bisping

weidman vs Boetsch (title eliminator)

Vitor vs Beclher (winner in next title eliminator)

Luke Rockhold vs Costa Pliapou (winner in next title eliminator)

Sonnen vs Wanderlei (winner gets back into the mix)

Prelim card:

Lombard vs Stann

Okami vs Palharres

Ed Herman vs Carmont

Jacare vs Roger Gracie

cammozi vs nick ring

Larkin vs tavares

Facebook:

kennedy vs fukuda.

 

Just looking at it gives you an orgasm....  Picture in your mind 3 cards like this every year....  can you feel it?  can you hear the crowd?  can you anticipate the goosebumps?

this model would even make the "pride never die" fans forget japanese mma ever existed.

12/14/12 5:37 AM
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Letibleu
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If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.

12/14/12 5:49 AM
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redrum85
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Cool idea but I don't see it work out in the long run, like other said it limits the flexibility of fights, let say u get injured 1 month before ur fight and you'd be ready in 2-3, you'll have to wait even longer.and more of a chance of getting injured again in training. I do miss tournament style events tho! Phone Post
12/14/12 5:58 AM
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Nexuscrawlers
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i think its a great idea. at least the whole main card.

it woud also help fights from being canceled due to injury, it would be easier to make new matchups with guys already on the card if anything happened to one of the fights.

also, up-and-coming guys from different weights would know when those shows are scheduled they shouldb e ready to replace an injured fighter even if they arent booked on the card themselves.

12/14/12 6:08 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/14/12 6:26 AM
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Letibleu - If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.
 

 

your first argument is that this is entertainment....  those HW, LHW cards wouldnt be entertaining?  were you entertained by ufc 146's main card?

 

your second argument is that variety is required...  what does this mean?  variety could be fighters from all over the world which you get in this model... variety can mean every card is a different weight class which you get in this model...  variety can also mean a mix of different weight classes on the same card which I assume is what you're talking about.  and you have a right to that opinion.  In my opinion after one experiences the format proposed in this thread most would not like the current format... it just wouldnt make any sense.

in the current format the average viewer does not understand the relevance nor context of roughly 10 out of the 12 fights on a card... these are just watching fights for the sake of watching fights or to kill time before the main event.  this is a dangerous path because you can watch fights on youtube anytime so the novelty of watching fights on tv is wearing off and moreover you place too much weight on just 2 fights on a card which leads to injuries damaging your business, a handfull of stars with too much leverage, etc...

Your last argument is that there are a gazillion financial and practical reasons why this wouldnt work...  since you didnt name one i cant respond to this.

Im proposing only a simple test.  just test it out on one weight class.  Just test it out on the 155lb class.  It has the depth and it's not a ppv property like the 170 plus divisions so there's very little risk.

Let's test it in a way that has very little risk and see what happens.  if im right it will revolutionize fight sports and take the UFC to a whole new level... if im wrong there's very little damage.

just do it with the 155lb division and I bet at best it will become a major league TV property where the monetization from ad supported networks, sponsorhsips and a possible subscription model would surpass ppv revenue and at worst, it would develop the LW division into a major ppv property.   that's my estimation.

Im laying out all the theoretical benefits that far outweigh the current system and Im simply proposing a way to test it with very little risk.

The only risk i see with this test is that this is so successful at 155 it hurts the other cards which are still mixed.... I believe if this is successful people will not like mixed cards anymore as they wont make sense... which is a good problem to have because then all you'd do is roll it out to the rest of the divisions.

12/14/12 6:15 AM
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beanouno
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Only problem I see is when the next card comes round and its got to be similar fighters for the next card. Cards need diversity. Phone Post
12/14/12 6:18 AM
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MMALOGIC
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redrum85 -  Cool idea but I don't see it work out in the long run, like other said it limits the flexibility of fights, let say u get injured 1 month before ur fight and you'd be ready in 2-3, you'll have to wait even longer.and more of a chance of getting injured again in training. I do miss tournament style events tho! Phone Post

well if you're injured 1 month before the fight and you're out 2-3 months...  and the next event is 4 months later then that means you will be ready to start your camp right on time for the next event because you'll have 2 months to train for the next event.

let's do the math again...  you pull out of the event a month before and you are sidelined 3 months.  events for your division are 4 months apart...  so that means by the time you are healed you'll have 2 months to train for the next event which is perfect.

ultimately there's a cost to getting injured.  this structure will help guys train smarter...   it's like a bus... if you miss one you know when the next one is coming so this will be fine.

12/14/12 6:23 AM
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beanouno -  Only problem I see is when the next card comes round and its got to be similar fighters for the next card. Cards need diversity. Phone Post

there 4 months apart and inbetween your gonna have cards roughly every 2 weeks featuring a different weight class so when the 4 months comes around you're gonna miss these same guys.

also guys will be falling out due to losses and injury so there will be some new faces everytime and you'll have guys moving up where you'll  be able to follow career progression of each fighter in an easier and simpler way.

12/14/12 6:37 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Let me illustrate how powerful this model can be...

Fedor vs werdum pulled 420k viewers with a 700k peak...

SF then put on an all HW card... they pulled 750k viewers (nearly double) and peaked with 1.1 million (400k more than the peak of the werdum fight)

1.1 million on showtime is an absolutely incredible number.

I believe the model being proposed in this thread will revolutionize fight sports.

 

12/14/12 6:41 AM
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NorthFromHere
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MMAViking.com
MMALOGIC - 

Let me illustrate how powerful this model can be...

Fedor vs werdum pulled 420k viewers with a 700k peak...

SF then put on an all HW card... they pulled 750k viewers (nearly double) and peaked with 1.1 million (400k more than the peak of the werdum fight)

1.1 million on showtime is an absolutely incredible number.

I believe the model being proposed in this thread will revolutionize fight sports.

 


"SF then put on an all HW card."
This is the main point. It was a heavyweight card.
12/14/12 7:00 AM
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MMALOGIC
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willienugget - 
MMALOGIC - 

since it would be prudent to test this model on one weight class first to prove it's efficacy and success before rolling it out... i propose the LW division.  for 2 reasons:

1) it's matured and got depth.

2) it's not a ppv product yet (unlike 170) so there's little to no downside risk in implementing this.

I would place these fights on Fox at least 3 times and then move to ppv to prove the efficacy and success of this model.

here's what the next LW card could look like in under this structure/model:

Main Card:

Bendo vs Melendez (title fight)

Pettis vs Cerrone (title eliminator)

Alavarez va Maynard (winner could possibly be in next title eliminator)

Louzan vs Jim Miller (winner could possibly be in next title eliminator)

Diego Sanchez vs Nate Diaz (winner goe back into the mix)

Prelims:

Varner vs Guillard

Gomi vs sherk

Dos Anjos vs Khabib

and fill the rest with matches you think would make the most sense:  tj grant, wiman, barboza, tibaou, volkman, yves, etc...

that would be a sick card... and more importantly it would continue to be a sick card because in this structure you got a never ending tournament style hybrid of a roundrobin/ladder system.

Place that bad boy on fox 3 times and you got a ppv product that will last forever no matter who's champ.... but ultimately i believe this model will be so successful free tv and subscription licensing fees will far surpass ppv revenue.

conversely under the current fighter cenric system as soon as BJ penn left  they had to start all over with the division in terms of promotion.

Imagine if Frankie and Bendo came up under the model im proposing....  it would have been mma orgasm after mma orgasm. the division wouldnt have skipped a significant beat with frankie and bendo taking it over.

again we wouldnt only be excited about a fight, we'd be excited about the entire LW events.

This is a simple test im proposing... take the 155lb division into this structure/model and see what happens.


OK let's say a week before the fight, Melendez has to pull out. You give Bendo someone from the bullshit leftover? Do you bump Pettis up to fight Bendo and then change the matchups for all fighters on the card? One way you've got your champ fighting someone undeserving and the other way you've fucked up the lives of every fighter on the card. We could just say no fight for our champ this time eh?

UFC146 may have worked out but it is not a model for future success. It was more like, "Well that went off but let's not try that bullshit again."

yes, you bump the guy who makes the most sense in this case being pettis.  what you do with the rest of the card depends when the changes are being made.  (how far the promotional materials have been created how much bets have taken place on existing fights... yes, this may matter). 

You're saying a week before the fight... you dont even have to change any other fight.  You can simply give cerrone his show and win money, air him on camera during the event for his apperal sponsor and place him in the next title eliminator on the next card.  simple dimple.

you then bump up a prelim fight to the main card and bump a facebook fight to the prelim.  easy fix.

how can you say pettis is underserving?  if a guy is in a title eliminator he's the next deserving guy.  is he as deserving as the #1 contender? no... but shit happens.  if melendez got hurt 3 months before, pettis would have gotten the shot anyway.  this happens all the time now so why do you think this is a problem casued by the model proposed in this thread?

At least with this model the next best guy is there ready, willing and able to fill in.... even on a weaks notice

if cerrone still wants a fight as a tune up... every lw in the world will know the lw card is on this date and alot of them will be ready and waiting for a call.

now statistically 3 fighters are gonna fall out so 3 guys will be without opponents at some point (on average)... so you match 2 of those guys against each other and either pay the 3rd guy without a fight or call one of the lw's waiting by the phone.

it worked on 146 because it's a simple fix.  I just showed you how it would work on this hypothetical card.... the same way it worked on 146 and on this hypothetical card it would work on every other card that features only one weight class.

moving forward on average 3 fighters per card will be pulling out... this model is a great way to virtually resolve the damge this problematic reality causes..

12/14/12 7:08 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/14/12 7:20 AM
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NorthFromHere - 
MMALOGIC - 

Let me illustrate how powerful this model can be...

Fedor vs werdum pulled 420k viewers with a 700k peak...

SF then put on an all HW card... they pulled 750k viewers (nearly double) and peaked with 1.1 million (400k more than the peak of the werdum fight)

1.1 million on showtime is an absolutely incredible number.

I believe the model being proposed in this thread will revolutionize fight sports.

 


"SF then put on an all HW card."
This is the main point. It was a heavyweight card.

 

so you dont think it would have the same increase if it was an all LHW card with one big LHW fight vs a card with only one LHW fight? 

 

or an All MW card with one big MW fight vs a card with only 1 big MW fight? or an all WW card with 1 big WW fight vs a card with only 1 big WW fight?

let's illustrate it this way:

Jones vs Hendo (ufc 152).  it wasnt tracking like a blockbusterl... so we can reasonably say the buys would be around 400k... or maybe 450k.  like his fight against machida.

you place:  

gustaffson vs shogun

glover vs rampage

Machida vs Rashad or whatever...

and fill the rest of teh card with LHW's (bader, little nog, tehuna, manuwa, jimmo, hammil, vera, etc....

Here's my point.  if the card under the current structure is gonna pull 450k buys.  the card in the model being proposed in this thread can theoretically  pull 800k plus buys.

yes, you have more variable costs with rashad, rampage, etc... but you also have fixed costs (production, promotion, etc...) you're not doubling the cost... but you're doubling the revenue which means more than doubling the profits.  and you only have a fixed number of ppv events so you have to maximize it.

moreover ufc 152 would not have been cancelled...  how much did that cost zuffa?  20 million meltzer estimates.

12/14/12 7:51 AM
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MMALOGIC
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^ we would see the increase for every division short term except 145, 135 and 125.  I believe the increase for these smaller divisions will be long term.  they are already at basement levels no matter what HW, LHW fights you place on cards headlined by them it pulls basement level numbers.

I dont think the contrast helps because then people keep comparing the lighter weights to the heavier weights.  I believe an all 145lb card would do wonders for the division.  the wec was awesome because you didnt have that contrast.

tuf 15 was all BW and FW... the fights were great and the ratings were great.

I would place the main cards of 155, 145, 135 and 125 on free television and i would schedule their events inbetween the marquee divisions.

I would schedule in the following order:

1) 155

2) HW

3) 145

4) LHW

5) 135

6) MW

7) 125

8) ww

9) 115

I would first only test this with the 155lb division. once it proves successful i would roll it out to the next deepest division which is 170.... and then LHW... and then MW and HW.  And then 145, then 135, then 125 and finally 115.

female mma can kiss my ass.  i suppose you can eventually test that as well if the division every becomes deep enough or just place all female divisions on one card until it develops.

 

12/14/12 8:21 AM
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Edited: 12/14/12 8:27 AM
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^ so who were fucked more... the fighters on UFC 152 where the card had to be cancelled or the fighters on ufc 146 where the card was saved?

injuries are gonna happen.  UFC 146 was able to handle it and make the best of the situation whereas UFC 152 was not.

with ufc 146 for the most part the fighters who were prepared to compete were happy, the fans who bought tickets and ppv's were happy, and zuffa was happy.

with ufc152 the fighters who were prepared to compete but didnt were upset, the fans who booked hotels and flights were pissed and zuffa lost 20 million.

You tell me which one was better for the fighters, the fans and zuffa?

You dont wanna wait 4 months for a WW fight is a different argument and you have your right to feel that way.  I would only say that you would have mega events inbetween those 4 months in other weight classes to hold you over.

12/14/12 8:52 AM
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PhallicObjekt
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I like this idea.

Then I do not have to wait through boring man let midget mma.

I have no interest in watching 135lbs men playing pitter patter with each other.

I don't buy the cliche garbage about exciting fights that they put on.

These guys in general lack finishing power and it means boring fights without much knockouts. I'm sure there are exceptions but for the most part midget mma bores me.

Just do a cycle or two like everybody else and make the 155 cut off already. Phone Post
12/14/12 8:55 AM
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^ yes... in the model being proposed on this thread you can simply skip an entire event if you dont like a particular weight class.


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