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UnderGround Forums >> Each UFC card should only Feature 1 Weight Class


12/14/12 9:02 AM
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MMALOGIC
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the only thing i left out are the varsity jackets... we must have varsity jackets to make this work.

12/14/12 9:06 AM
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JBASS
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MMALOGIC - 

^ yes... in the model being proposed on this thread you can simply skip an entire event if you dont like a particular weight class.


I think this may be a problem for the UFC in regards to it's sponsors. They know that the smaller guys haven't been built up yet like they were in the WEC and aren't a huge draw (yet, I believe they will be soon enough). They aren't going to want to pay for sponsorship promotion during events that have the potential to draw low numbers.

Sponsors of the UFC obviously do research on the market and what it is wanting, they would be silly if they didn't and obviously sponsor the UFC to reach their preferred demographic. With so many people openly dismissing the lighter weight classes, an all Flyweight card could scare away sponsors.

Just my .02
12/14/12 9:15 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/14/12 9:22 AM
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^ this is true.  this is why i would transition those divisions into this model last (if it proves effective)... this way they have more time to develop (talent, depth and marketability). 

And this is why i would place them with their title fights on free tv first.  The sponsorhsips and audience will take care of itself at that point.  

Mcdonald vs Barao title fight 

picket vs wineland

faber vs menjivar

and filling the rest of the card with great 135lb matchups will pull great ratings for FX fight nights.

I believe the contrast on these mixed cards are hurting the lighter weights.  when you place a 135lb fight next to a LHW fight it looks less appealing than it really is.  chunk them together and it's easier to appreciate.  easier to follow, etc..

12/14/12 9:18 AM
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RPBJJ
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I like it.

Injuries wouldnt ruin it. If everyone in a weight class is getting in shape at the same time it would be easy to back fill drop out due to injury.

12/14/12 9:25 AM
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MMALOGIC
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^ it solves the injury problem... it solves the challenges in understanding the relevancy and context of certin fights problem... it solves the oversaturation problem.... it solves the watering down problem... it solves the mma becoming too much like boxing problem...

12/14/12 8:08 PM
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JBASS
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willienugget - Let's take a different angle. Why isn't the UFC already doing this? If it has potential to solve all their problems and make all their fans happy, why wouldn't they be doing it? There's got to be a reason they could give us more but don't.

Having been in business myself, one thing I figured out is giving the customers what they want more often than not will cause you to go out of business. Not saying that this idea would cause that to happen to the UFC, but as you said there's got to be a reason/reasons as to why the UFC doesn't do that.

There's obviously a lot more to this than we on the UG can see from our perspectives.
12/14/12 9:01 PM
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kingkoopa
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JBASS -
willienugget - Let's take a different angle. Why isn't the UFC already doing this? If it has potential to solve all their problems and make all their fans happy, why wouldn't they be doing it? There's got to be a reason they could give us more but don't.

Having been in business myself, one thing I figured out is giving the customers what they want more often than not will cause you to go out of business. Not saying that this idea would cause that to happen to the UFC, but as you said there's got to be a reason/reasons as to why the UFC doesn't do that.

There's obviously a lot more to this than we on the UG can see from our perspectives.
Or maybe they're too focused on saving tuf and haven't thought of it. Its unlikely but possible Phone Post
12/14/12 11:53 PM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/15/12 12:00 AM
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JBASS - 
willienugget - Let's take a different angle. Why isn't the UFC already doing this? If it has potential to solve all their problems and make all their fans happy, why wouldn't they be doing it? There's got to be a reason they could give us more but don't.

Having been in business myself, one thing I figured out is giving the customers what they want more often than not will cause you to go out of business. Not saying that this idea would cause that to happen to the UFC, but as you said there's got to be a reason/reasons as to why the UFC doesn't do that.

There's obviously a lot more to this than we on the UG can see from our perspectives.

 

well Dana has been hinting at major stuff that's gonna completely change the game... so who knows.

Even though the model being proposed on this thread seems to be the most ideal system, the UFC was really never in a position to impliment it until now.

You need thr right TV partners, the right roster... and you need to start with a heafty chunk of the talent in order for it to work.  for example if Bellator implimented this... meh.  it would be an improvement but it wouldnt be earth shattering.... 

with SF going away, a strong partnership with Fox, and now having a virtual talent monpoly... The UFC is in the perfect position to actually impliment this.... and only in the UFC can this model revolutionize fight sports.

12/14/12 11:59 PM
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MMALOGIC
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willienugget - Let's take a different angle. Why isn't the UFC already doing this? If it has potential to solve all their problems and make all their fans happy, why wouldn't they be doing it? There's got to be a reason they could give us more but don't.

Ideas come when their time is right.  The idea of google would be worthless in the 80's.

the UFC was never really in a position to impliment this model... you need the right roster (quality/size) and the right tv partner.  with SF being absorbed and a strong partnership with fox they are now in a position to do something like this.

We have arrived to a time and in an environement where it's right for this idea to be implimented.

12/15/12 11:00 AM
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Letibleu
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MMALOGIC - 
Letibleu - If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.
 

 

your first argument is that this is entertainment....  those HW, LHW cards wouldnt be entertaining?  were you entertained by ufc 146's main card?

 

your second argument is that variety is required...  what does this mean?  variety could be fighters from all over the world which you get in this model... variety can mean every card is a different weight class which you get in this model...  variety can also mean a mix of different weight classes on the same card which I assume is what you're talking about.  and you have a right to that opinion.  In my opinion after one experiences the format proposed in this thread most would not like the current format... it just wouldnt make any sense.

in the current format the average viewer does not understand the relevance nor context of roughly 10 out of the 12 fights on a card... these are just watching fights for the sake of watching fights or to kill time before the main event.  this is a dangerous path because you can watch fights on youtube anytime so the novelty of watching fights on tv is wearing off and moreover you place too much weight on just 2 fights on a card which leads to injuries damaging your business, a handfull of stars with too much leverage, etc...

Your last argument is that there are a gazillion financial and practical reasons why this wouldnt work...  since you didnt name one i cant respond to this.

Im proposing only a simple test.  just test it out on one weight class.  Just test it out on the 155lb class.  It has the depth and it's not a ppv property like the 170 plus divisions so there's very little risk.

Let's test it in a way that has very little risk and see what happens.  if im right it will revolutionize fight sports and take the UFC to a whole new level... if im wrong there's very little damage.

just do it with the 155lb division and I bet at best it will become a major league TV property where the monetization from ad supported networks, sponsorhsips and a possible subscription model would surpass ppv revenue and at worst, it would develop the LW division into a major ppv property.   that's my estimation.

Im laying out all the theoretical benefits that far outweigh the current system and Im simply proposing a way to test it with very little risk.

The only risk i see with this test is that this is so successful at 155 it hurts the other cards which are still mixed.... I believe if this is successful people will not like mixed cards anymore as they wont make sense... which is a good problem to have because then all you'd do is roll it out to the rest of the divisions.


Wow...um, k.

You took the time to mount argument. I'll give you my time of day and construct a rebuttal. I will have to take the time to read everything already written to not be redundant. It will have to wait until this afternoon.

12/15/12 11:10 AM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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Sub Phone Post
12/15/12 6:56 PM
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CLINTK9
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Letibleu - 
MMALOGIC - 
Letibleu - If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.
 

 

your first argument is that this is entertainment....  those HW, LHW cards wouldnt be entertaining?  were you entertained by ufc 146's main card?

 

your second argument is that variety is required...  what does this mean?  variety could be fighters from all over the world which you get in this model... variety can mean every card is a different weight class which you get in this model...  variety can also mean a mix of different weight classes on the same card which I assume is what you're talking about.  and you have a right to that opinion.  In my opinion after one experiences the format proposed in this thread most would not like the current format... it just wouldnt make any sense.

in the current format the average viewer does not understand the relevance nor context of roughly 10 out of the 12 fights on a card... these are just watching fights for the sake of watching fights or to kill time before the main event.  this is a dangerous path because you can watch fights on youtube anytime so the novelty of watching fights on tv is wearing off and moreover you place too much weight on just 2 fights on a card which leads to injuries damaging your business, a handfull of stars with too much leverage, etc...

Your last argument is that there are a gazillion financial and practical reasons why this wouldnt work...  since you didnt name one i cant respond to this.

Im proposing only a simple test.  just test it out on one weight class.  Just test it out on the 155lb class.  It has the depth and it's not a ppv property like the 170 plus divisions so there's very little risk.

Let's test it in a way that has very little risk and see what happens.  if im right it will revolutionize fight sports and take the UFC to a whole new level... if im wrong there's very little damage.

just do it with the 155lb division and I bet at best it will become a major league TV property where the monetization from ad supported networks, sponsorhsips and a possible subscription model would surpass ppv revenue and at worst, it would develop the LW division into a major ppv property.   that's my estimation.

Im laying out all the theoretical benefits that far outweigh the current system and Im simply proposing a way to test it with very little risk.

The only risk i see with this test is that this is so successful at 155 it hurts the other cards which are still mixed.... I believe if this is successful people will not like mixed cards anymore as they wont make sense... which is a good problem to have because then all you'd do is roll it out to the rest of the divisions.


Wow...um, k.

You took the time to mount argument. I'll give you my time of day and construct a rebuttal. I will have to take the time to read everything already written to not be redundant. It will have to wait until this afternoon.


ttt for "gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float"

seriously, I'd like to see some negs on this idea, as I cant think of any that would make me not want to see this or do this if I was running UFC.

they are semi doing it already in March with gsp/diaz, condit/macdonald on same card.
12/15/12 7:24 PM
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SupesUp
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I think you overestimate how often these guys, especially top guys fight. Otherwise it's a capital idea. Phone Post
12/15/12 8:02 PM
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JBASS
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CLINTK9 - 
Letibleu - 
MMALOGIC - 
Letibleu - If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.
 

 

your first argument is that this is entertainment....  those HW, LHW cards wouldnt be entertaining?  were you entertained by ufc 146's main card?

 

your second argument is that variety is required...  what does this mean?  variety could be fighters from all over the world which you get in this model... variety can mean every card is a different weight class which you get in this model...  variety can also mean a mix of different weight classes on the same card which I assume is what you're talking about.  and you have a right to that opinion.  In my opinion after one experiences the format proposed in this thread most would not like the current format... it just wouldnt make any sense.

in the current format the average viewer does not understand the relevance nor context of roughly 10 out of the 12 fights on a card... these are just watching fights for the sake of watching fights or to kill time before the main event.  this is a dangerous path because you can watch fights on youtube anytime so the novelty of watching fights on tv is wearing off and moreover you place too much weight on just 2 fights on a card which leads to injuries damaging your business, a handfull of stars with too much leverage, etc...

Your last argument is that there are a gazillion financial and practical reasons why this wouldnt work...  since you didnt name one i cant respond to this.

Im proposing only a simple test.  just test it out on one weight class.  Just test it out on the 155lb class.  It has the depth and it's not a ppv property like the 170 plus divisions so there's very little risk.

Let's test it in a way that has very little risk and see what happens.  if im right it will revolutionize fight sports and take the UFC to a whole new level... if im wrong there's very little damage.

just do it with the 155lb division and I bet at best it will become a major league TV property where the monetization from ad supported networks, sponsorhsips and a possible subscription model would surpass ppv revenue and at worst, it would develop the LW division into a major ppv property.   that's my estimation.

Im laying out all the theoretical benefits that far outweigh the current system and Im simply proposing a way to test it with very little risk.

The only risk i see with this test is that this is so successful at 155 it hurts the other cards which are still mixed.... I believe if this is successful people will not like mixed cards anymore as they wont make sense... which is a good problem to have because then all you'd do is roll it out to the rest of the divisions.


Wow...um, k.

You took the time to mount argument. I'll give you my time of day and construct a rebuttal. I will have to take the time to read everything already written to not be redundant. It will have to wait until this afternoon.


ttt for "gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float"

seriously, I'd like to see some negs on this idea, as I cant think of any that would make me not want to see this or do this if I was running UFC.

they are semi doing it already in March with gsp/diaz, condit/macdonald on same card.

I stated it previously that I think the threat of a low PPV buy or viewership during the lighter weight classes would be enough to scare them off of doing that. There is already so much fan backlash about Flyweight title fights being put on cards above other fights - I don't think they really want to think about what a whole Flyweight card would do.

Like I have also stated previously, I think it's a great model and something I would love to see implemented. I just don't think it's realistic at this stage of the UFC.
12/15/12 10:10 PM
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BushidoAristotle
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UFC 158 is kind of/sort of what you're asking for. Maybe they're listening.
12/15/12 10:12 PM
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alkysmurf
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I came to post this^^^^ Phone Post
12/15/12 10:14 PM
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caposa
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Edited: 12/15/12 10:15 PM
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was just looking for this thread

 

UFC 158

-George St.Pierre vs. Nick Diaz

-Rory MacDonald vs. Carlos Condit

-Johny Hendricks vs. Jake Ellenberger

12/15/12 10:56 PM
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CLINTK9
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JBASS - 
CLINTK9 - 
Letibleu - 
MMALOGIC - 
Letibleu - If the UFC was a German factory geared towards efficiency and productivity you sir would be the big boss person.

However this is entertainment. Variety is required. There are also a gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float.

I could see a card here and there dominated with a certain weight class such as the now defunct Strikeforce HW tourney cards but definitely not financially viable for both the promoter and the fighters outside of that frequency.
 

 

your first argument is that this is entertainment....  those HW, LHW cards wouldnt be entertaining?  were you entertained by ufc 146's main card?

 

your second argument is that variety is required...  what does this mean?  variety could be fighters from all over the world which you get in this model... variety can mean every card is a different weight class which you get in this model...  variety can also mean a mix of different weight classes on the same card which I assume is what you're talking about.  and you have a right to that opinion.  In my opinion after one experiences the format proposed in this thread most would not like the current format... it just wouldnt make any sense.

in the current format the average viewer does not understand the relevance nor context of roughly 10 out of the 12 fights on a card... these are just watching fights for the sake of watching fights or to kill time before the main event.  this is a dangerous path because you can watch fights on youtube anytime so the novelty of watching fights on tv is wearing off and moreover you place too much weight on just 2 fights on a card which leads to injuries damaging your business, a handfull of stars with too much leverage, etc...

Your last argument is that there are a gazillion financial and practical reasons why this wouldnt work...  since you didnt name one i cant respond to this.

Im proposing only a simple test.  just test it out on one weight class.  Just test it out on the 155lb class.  It has the depth and it's not a ppv property like the 170 plus divisions so there's very little risk.

Let's test it in a way that has very little risk and see what happens.  if im right it will revolutionize fight sports and take the UFC to a whole new level... if im wrong there's very little damage.

just do it with the 155lb division and I bet at best it will become a major league TV property where the monetization from ad supported networks, sponsorhsips and a possible subscription model would surpass ppv revenue and at worst, it would develop the LW division into a major ppv property.   that's my estimation.

Im laying out all the theoretical benefits that far outweigh the current system and Im simply proposing a way to test it with very little risk.

The only risk i see with this test is that this is so successful at 155 it hurts the other cards which are still mixed.... I believe if this is successful people will not like mixed cards anymore as they wont make sense... which is a good problem to have because then all you'd do is roll it out to the rest of the divisions.


Wow...um, k.

You took the time to mount argument. I'll give you my time of day and construct a rebuttal. I will have to take the time to read everything already written to not be redundant. It will have to wait until this afternoon.


ttt for "gazillion financial and practical reasons this would never float"

seriously, I'd like to see some negs on this idea, as I cant think of any that would make me not want to see this or do this if I was running UFC.

they are semi doing it already in March with gsp/diaz, condit/macdonald on same card.

I stated it previously that I think the threat of a low PPV buy or viewership during the lighter weight classes would be enough to scare them off of doing that. There is already so much fan backlash about Flyweight title fights being put on cards above other fights - I don't think they really want to think about what a whole Flyweight card would do.

Like I have also stated previously, I think it's a great model and something I would love to see implemented. I just don't think it's realistic at this stage of the UFC.

Solution was already stated.

the under LW cards are put on FREE Fuel and FX 1st to get them known. Can actually Keep them there as the anually free fuel/fx cards. Unless the demand gets BIG for them!

PPV's/FOX can be the LW and above cards!
12/15/12 10:58 PM
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CLINTK9
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^^^ and if the under LW cards end up sucking so bad no one wants them at all, easy solution there as well = scrap those divisions, IF they are THAT Bad!
12/15/12 11:31 PM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/15/12 11:35 PM
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^ and the WEC did just fine... it was the only organization not named the UFC able to pull over a million viewers on versus or any basic cable network and it pulled more ppv buys than afflictions 6 million dollar payroll which included Fedor.... and the wec only had the lighter weights.

12/15/12 11:35 PM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/15/12 11:46 PM
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caposa - 

was just looking for this thread

 

UFC 158

-George St.Pierre vs. Nick Diaz

-Rory MacDonald vs. Carlos Condit

-Johny Hendricks vs. Jake Ellenberger

 

That's what im talkin about...

 

It's now statistically improbable for injuries to ruin at least the top half of that card.

12/15/12 11:46 PM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/16/12 12:23 AM
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JBASS -

I stated it previously that I think the threat of a low PPV buy or viewership during the lighter weight classes would be enough to scare them off of doing that. There is already so much fan backlash about Flyweight title fights being put on cards above other fights - I don't think they really want to think about what a whole Flyweight card would do.

Like I have also stated previously, I think it's a great model and something I would love to see implemented. I just don't think it's realistic at this stage of the UFC.


well if people are upset that flyweights are put on above other fights then they'll like this because they wont be put above other fights anymore.  they'll have their own cards.

if they cant pull ppv then they shouldnt be on ppv until they can.  the wec however was able to pull more buys than any other organization not named the UFC... inlcuding Affliction which had a 6 million dollar payroll with Fedor.

If they cant pull viewers then they shouldnt exist.  but as we saw with the wec, they were able to pull  1million plus viewers on basice cable a few times and over 500k on several occassions.  Bellator hardly ever pulls more than 300k on a network which is available in more homes than versus had.

Give the small guys their own stage and they will shine.  people will stop comparing flyweights to lhw's if they are not on the same card.... instead they will compare flyweights to other flyweights to determine the quality of the product.

Have you noticed that all these complaints about the lighter weights began when zuffa started to mix them into cards with other weight classes.  well, the model presented in this thread solves that problem.

12/16/12 12:05 AM
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CLINTK9
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MMALOGIC - 
caposa - 

was just looking for this thread

 

UFC 158

-George St.Pierre vs. Nick Diaz

-Rory MacDonald vs. Carlos Condit

-Johny Hendricks vs. Jake Ellenberger

 

That's what im talkin about...

 

It's now statistically improbable for injuries to ruin at least the top half of that card.


maybe they are listening. heres my card from page 3

WW:

GSP/Diaz
Hendricks/Ellenberger
Condit/MacDonald
Fitch/Maia
Koscheck/Kampmann
12/16/12 12:22 AM
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MMALOGIC
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^ koscheck/kampmann would be a great addition.  and if you had fitch maia... oodles more fun.  nate marquart will be in the mix soon.  you got mike pyle, eric silva, jay heiron... loads more.  an all WW card would be epic.

12/16/12 1:10 AM
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SMS89
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How did I miss this thread.

Incredible.

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