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UnderGround Forums >> Each UFC card should only Feature 1 Weight Class


12/16/12 1:28 AM
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Sofa King Cool
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NorthFromHere - Average fans wouldn't give a shit about flyweight, bantamweight or even featherweight only cards.
This Phone Post
12/16/12 2:23 AM
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radiobaby
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The logistics of of pulling that off successfully every time are nuts. It is fun every once in awhile when they can do it though. Phone Post
12/16/12 2:40 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 12/16/12 3:07 AM
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^ would be very feasible.... you'd need roughly 45 guys per weight class under contract which they have for most now.  you do the first one... tally which of the 24 guys (who arent being released) can make the next one in 4 and a half months and fill out the next card with guys who missed the last one and new signees  with common sense matchmaking.

and for every guys the UFC has on contract there's 5 guys waiting for a phone call.  so this shouldnt be a problem.

4 and 1/2 month lead time is what they work with now.  the montreal show in march is roughly 4 and half months later from the last one with GSP, hendricks and im sure other canadians from that same card.. 

you only transition one weight class first, once that's running you then transition the next one, then the next, etc...  everyone in a weight class knows that roughly 4 and a half months later is the next one.

it's even feasible from a promotional stand point.   let's say GSP cant make it.  you got Diaz vs Hendricks for an interim title. GSP comes back 4 and half months after that to unify the belt.

Let's say the interim title isnt big enough to carry a ppv... no problem, you place it on free TV and then pull the viewers back to ppv for the next one... this way people get to sample all the weight classes on free TV at some point in addition to the free prelims they'll get for each weight class.

The only drawback I see is international expansion... however you can still include mixed fight nights in addition to this model.

but I believe this model will be so successful besides the graphics/production you wont have to customize it for international markets.... the model translates accross all cultures and languages.

you can supllement these mega events with customizing tuf for each market and the mixed fight nights cards mentioned above.

in my personal opinion id rather have the roughly 27 mega events a year garnering the 80% of the potential global profits and let everyone else worry about 20% of the scraps and left overs.  instead of trying to stage a gazzillion shows and events every year.

12/16/12 5:02 AM
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Sho_Gunn
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Most of the UG hates the lower weight classes and also where do the women fall in this idea? NO ONE is going to pay to see an entire women ppv. Neat idea for some classes but not for all. 

12/16/12 5:13 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Sho_Gunn - 

Most of the UG hates the lower weight classes and also where do the women fall in this idea? NO ONE is going to pay to see an entire women ppv. Neat idea for some classes but not for all. 


they hate the lighter weight classes now because  they are mixed on cards with the heavier weight classes... before everyone on the ug used to jerk off to the wec which only had lighter weight classes.

Give the small guys their own stage and they will shine.  people will stop comparing flyweights to lhw's if they are not on the same card.... instead they will compare flyweights to other flyweights to determine the quality of the product.  that's why everyone loved the wec.

if nobody is gonna pay for female mma on ppv then it should be on free tv... if nobody is gonna watch it on free tv then it shouldnt exist.

Female tennis does just fine on it's own and so too will female mma.

12/16/12 6:05 AM
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Tylervic
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A weight class like welterweight has 65 fighters you want 11 fights per card which is 22 fighters that means they only fight once each year. Idea sounds good but it won't work Phone Post
12/16/12 7:44 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Tylervic -  A weight class like welterweight has 65 fighters you want 11 fights per card which is 22 fighters that means they only fight once each year. Idea sounds good but it won't work Phone Post

you're gonna need around 45 fighters in each weight class on contract as not every guy is gonna be able to fight 3 times a year.  some of those 65 guys at ww arent active anymore and others shouldnt even be in the ufc.  it's 12 fights per card. (3 on facebook, 4 on prelims, 5 on main card... in general)

statistically you have roughly 3.5 guys per card who are gonna pull out after the card is announced... you're gonna have more who never signed on for the next event because they just want a break after their last fight, others who get injured during their last fight, and those who get cut.  so all 24 guys wont be the same for every event.

with the model presented in this thread if you do 3 events per year per weight class it would mean 24 events a year with the current 8 divisions.  that's about the amount of events the UFC put on in 2011.  

If you do 4 events per weight class every year instead of 3 which would be 32 events a year (they're having 31 events in 2013) .... you'll just likely have more interim title bouts because champs will not be able to fight that often.

You have to figure champs will be able to fight 4-5 times in 2 years.  so interim titles will be awarded around 1.5 to 2 times per year per weight class if you do 4 events per year per weight class.  however you dont have to use interim titles... you can just call it a #1 contenders bout.  but if it's a TV product... interim title is gonna fair better and the unification bout when the champ returns will be more marketable.

Regardless, this model doesnt preclude mixed fight nights in addition to these events.  

However I would rather do 4 events a year per weight class and simply place the interim title fights on free TV when warranted.  it will pull even more people back to ppv the next event.

This would have to be monetized on free television or a subscription channel/free television combination because you can only have 14 ppv's a year.

UFC's record year for ppv were 9 million buys.... at around 25 dollars per buy that's 225 million.  let's also add 25 million  as ppv shows can get more at the gate than free tv shows.

so the ppv business at best represents 250mil a year.... which means a total of 350m a year will buy the UFC completely out of the ppv business.  that's chump change for fox.

I believe this model has the potential to warrant that type of licensing deal if not more.  I believe it has has the potential to make the UFC pound for pound the second biggest TV sports property in the united states.

32 events a year with 8 divisions... 36 events a year with the addition of a 115lb division.... 40 events a year with the addition of a female 135 lb division.  44 events a year with the addition of a female 125lb division.

you got potentially 44 events a year with 6 hours of programming per event that can be split onto 2 different sister networks.

44 events a year with 11 weight classes is the absolute critical mass for the UFC.  and I believe the model presented in this thread is the best way to handle it.  if people dont wanna watch or pay for a weight class then get rid of it.

12/16/12 7:47 AM
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Wrex
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The cards are all highly variable in quality as is.

What about the women cards

Rousey vs Carmouche
Rousey vs Tate
Rousey vs Coenan
Rousey vs Cyborg
Cyborg vs Tate

All in one night?
12/16/12 7:55 AM
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MMALOGIC
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^ lol...she can probably beat them all in one night.  the market will decide on what happens to female mma... but that wouldnt be the first division i transition into this model.

I would transition the LW division.... see if it's successful, then perfect it and move onto transitioning the rest one by one.  170 would be next, then LHW, then MW, then HW, then 145lb, then 135lb, then 125lb and finally the female division... by then if the female division is not stacked yet to carry it's own card or people dont want to pay for it or watch it for free... get rid of it.

there's very little risk to testing this model.

12/16/12 1:52 PM
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CLINTK9
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MMALOGIC - 

^ lol...she can probably beat them all in one night.  the market will decide on what happens to female mma... but that wouldnt be the first division i transition into this model.

I would transition the LW division.... see if it's successful, then perfect it and move onto transitioning the rest one by one.  170 would be next, then LHW, then MW, then HW, then 145lb, then 135lb, then 125lb and finally the female division... by then if the female division is not stacked yet to carry it's own card or people dont want to pay for it or watch it for free... get rid of it.

there's very little risk to testing this model.


And so far, by the ufc158: I just came in my pants thread, people seem to like this idea.
12/16/12 1:56 PM
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CLINTK9
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SupesUp -  I think you overestimate how often these guys, especially top guys fight. Otherwise it's a capital idea. Phone Post

its just like ufc146, no matter what the reason is for a top guy not fighting, you structure the card to the next best thing. or move each contender up a fight accordingly.
12/16/12 11:03 PM
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CLINTK9
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bump
12/18/12 1:41 AM
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SinCityHustler
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Fantastic idea.  Virtually no draw backs.  Those cards would be stacked each time out and no need to sit through the light weight fights, TUF fights, basically the fluff, while waiting for the fights that actually matter to the consumer.  I paid for 1 UFC card since UFC 100 and that was the all heavyweight card.  This idea actually being implemented would put the excitement back into MMA.    

12/18/12 2:23 AM
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myjawhurts
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pj_benn - Yeah but no. I could deal with half the card but the whole card? No Phone Post
Fly,feather and tiny tiny aren't deep enough for a full card yet but could be split across cards to get this idea going.


I really like the idea of a single weight class event. I'd pick hw, lhw, mw, ww and save my money after that. Phone Post
12/18/12 6:47 AM
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JBASS
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Here's something that I am a little troubled by - I understand how this could help with the injury problem as weight classes only fight on certain dates but what concerns me is the UFC asking a whole weight class to prepare for an event when only 1/4-1/3 of said weight class will be fighting, if not less than that.

It's hard to tell somebody to prepare for a date when they aren't necessarily going to be fighting at the event. The only way I can see this happening is if the UFC introduces some kind of salary system rather than paying fighters per fight. The only issue there is it could either save or waste a lot of money for the UFC/fighters. Imagine the UFC paying Aldo a top dollar salary and then he drops his next 4 fights.
12/18/12 6:56 AM
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Roy Batty
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I've thought for a while they should make it so the champ defends right after a couple top contenders duke it out in the co-main. That way, the champ fights the winner of that fight as soon as the guy who's more beat-up is ready. Plus, there could be some smack talk in the Octagon after the main, if the guy who won the title shot doesn't have to go to the hospital. This could be exciting as heck, IMO. Of course, the way injuries have been going, who knows if the main event that got set up would happen anytime soon.
12/18/12 7:08 AM
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MMALOGIC
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JBASS - Here's something that I am a little troubled by - I understand how this could help with the injury problem as weight classes only fight on certain dates but what concerns me is the UFC asking a whole weight class to prepare for an event when only 1/4-1/3 of said weight class will be fighting, if not less than that.

It's hard to tell somebody to prepare for a date when they aren't necessarily going to be fighting at the event. The only way I can see this happening is if the UFC introduces some kind of salary system rather than paying fighters per fight. The only issue there is it could either save or waste a lot of money for the UFC/fighters. Imagine the UFC paying Aldo a top dollar salary and then he drops his next 4 fights.

well, I dont think they will tell guys to be ready... it's just gonna be known that this is the date of the next "X" weightclass event.  those who wanna make more money will be in shape and ready for a call.

you hear guys now saying they are gonna stay in shape incase somebody drops out.  it's gonna be the same thing except they'll know the date for their weight class and the card which will make it easier for them..

12/18/12 7:14 AM
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MMALOGIC
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SupesUp -  I think you overestimate how often these guys, especially top guys fight. Otherwise it's a capital idea. Phone Post

the beauty is the top guys dont have to fight that often... each division keeps moving forward.  if a champ wants to take the next event off, you make the main event a #1 contenders bout and place it on free TV.  this way the marketplace gets to sample a main card with every weight class during the year for free (in addition to the free prelims) and you get to pull them back into ppv for the next one with the champ returning.

If the champ misses more then one you create an interim title and then unify... again no matter what happens, the division keeps moving forward. 

12/18/12 7:23 AM
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MMALOGIC
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CLINTK9 - 
MMALOGIC - 

^ lol...she can probably beat them all in one night.  the market will decide on what happens to female mma... but that wouldnt be the first division i transition into this model.

I would transition the LW division.... see if it's successful, then perfect it and move onto transitioning the rest one by one.  170 would be next, then LHW, then MW, then HW, then 145lb, then 135lb, then 125lb and finally the female division... by then if the female division is not stacked yet to carry it's own card or people dont want to pay for it or watch it for free... get rid of it.

there's very little risk to testing this model.


And so far, by the ufc158: I just came in my pants thread, people seem to like this idea.

yeah even those objecting to it in this thread will love it once they see it play out for real.

the common objection we're seeing are the lighter weights which has been debunked in this thread over and over.

12/18/12 8:17 AM
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MMALOGIC
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let me address the most common objection in this thread: "Nobody will watch with only the little guys".... once again:

1st, the wec only had the little guys and they were the only org not named the UFC able to pull over a million viewers on basic cable a few times and over 600k several times.  Bellator cant even do it and mtv2 is available in more homes... the IFL wasnt able to do it it they were available in even more homes.

Imagine if the WEC was labelled the UFC instead and those numbers would be even better.

2nd, nobody was complaing about the little guys until they were being mixed onto cards with the big guys.  when you mix a BW match with a MW match natrally people will compare the 2.  if you only place BW fights on a card then they'll only compare one BW fight to another.

And finally let's create some lighter weight cards to get an idea of how they would do:

145lb division:

main card:

Aldo vs Edgar

Eric Koch vs Lamas (title eliminator)

Siver vs Swanson (winner in next title eliminator)

Zombie vs Elkins (winner in next title eliminator)

Mendes vs Porier (winner gets back into the mix)

 

Prelim:

Nick Lentz vs Hacran Dias

Hioki vs Guida

Diego Brandao vs Rony Jason

Diego Nunez vs Max Holloway

Facebook:

pablo garza vs CHarles Oliviera

manny gamburyan vs dennis bermudez

Justin Lawrence vs Nam Phan

**************

This card would kill it on fox.  It would pull the 1m plus gate that the fox cards pull and the raings would be great...  the difference is the ratings and the audience will biuld over time if you keep featuring this weight class because the casual viewers will be able to follow along.

place events that only feature the 145lb division on fox 3 times and you'll have a division that's either a viable and big money TV product or a Viable PPV product.

You then take the next weight class and do the same thing on fox.... by the time you're done and have gone through all the weight classes you'll have 8 divisions that are other big money TV products that are either viable on Free Broadcast/cable like the NFL, NBA or MLB or with an improved ppv or subscription component.

 

Let's look at the BW division (135) and what the next card would look like.

main card:

Barao vs Macdonald (Interim Title fight with Cruz getting next shot)

picket vs wineland (winner could be in title eliminator)

Faber vs Menjivar (winner could be in next title eliminator)

Bryan Carawy vs Raphael Assancoo (winner goes into the mix)

Bowles vs Mizugaki (winner goes back into the mix)

Prelims:

tj dillahaw vs mike easton,

jorgenson vs kid yamamoto,

perez vs jabuoin,

alex caceres vs Bedfor

This card would pull just as well as any fight night on FX in terms of Gate and Viewership.... again the difference though is that you'll build the audience long term with each time you air the BW event because they'll become more familiar with the division, the fighters and the matchups.

you can place this on FX and then move it Fox...

People think in chunks... all you need is 1 star in a division... all a person would have to do is remember Urijah faber and they'll automatically recall all the other fighters who are consistently on the same cards as he is.  What will happen is multiple guys wil break out as stars.

Each division will become a viable product that can either be monetized via free brosdcast/cable like the NFL, NBA or MLB and/or with a ppv/subscription component in the mix.

as far as 125.... it's not developed yet so you do that division last or close to last.  This is not an overnight process it's gonna take a few years to transition every division into this...  you can even add a male 115lb and a female 125lb division eventually. 

 

12/18/12 9:51 AM
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Son of Neckbone
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The negative sticking point continues to be the extreme lighter weights.

The thing is, you are going to get these fights regardless. The division is created, the fighters are there, so the fights will happen.

If you truly have no interest in these fights, you could skip them all by avoiding that particular event entirely. If you do have interest, it provides clarity and intrigue to the contest.

I don't think the format needs to be absolutely rigid and only feature a single weight class however. The "all HW card" of ufc 146 was actually 5 HW fights on the main card, and then a hodgepodge of classes for the 8 fight undercard.

Easily you could relegate the BW division into the prelims on FuelTV, and have the main card PPV or Fox with a more marquee wt class like HW.

Regardless of how it will sort everything out, I like this idea.
12/18/12 10:11 AM
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Scandle6161
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if anythin have the ppv events like that but leave the rest of the shows the same. Personnaly i dont think it will work tho Phone Post
12/18/12 11:14 AM
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CLINTK9
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MMALOGIC - 
JBASS - Here's something that I am a little troubled by - I understand how this could help with the injury problem as weight classes only fight on certain dates but what concerns me is the UFC asking a whole weight class to prepare for an event when only 1/4-1/3 of said weight class will be fighting, if not less than that.

It's hard to tell somebody to prepare for a date when they aren't necessarily going to be fighting at the event. The only way I can see this happening is if the UFC introduces some kind of salary system rather than paying fighters per fight. The only issue there is it could either save or waste a lot of money for the UFC/fighters. Imagine the UFC paying Aldo a top dollar salary and then he drops his next 4 fights.

well, I dont think they will tell guys to be ready... it's just gonna be known that this is the date of the next "X" weightclass event.  those who wanna make more money will be in shape and ready for a call.

you hear guys now saying they are gonna stay in shape incase somebody drops out.  it's gonna be the same thing except they'll know the date for their weight class and the card which will make it easier for them..


the rosters dont need to be that big. theres names on there that dont belong or havent even fought in ufc in awhile.

and like logic said, fighters know injuries are common now, if I'm a ww and not on the ww card his time, I'm gonna be ready for a call. your at least gonna get on average 2-3 replacements per card if things stay the same.
12/18/12 3:15 PM
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SinCityHustler
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MMALOGIC - 
SupesUp -  I think you overestimate how often these guys, especially top guys fight. Otherwise it's a capital idea. Phone Post

the beauty is the top guys dont have to fight that often... each division keeps moving forward.  if a champ wants to take the next event off, you make the main event a #1 contenders bout and place it on free TV.  this way the marketplace gets to sample a main card with every weight class during the year for free (in addition to the free prelims) and you get to pull them back into ppv for the next one with the champ returning.

If the champ misses more then one you create an interim title and then unify... again no matter what happens, the division keeps moving forward. 


I like your idea a lot.   I hope this happens.  But please, enough with the interim titles.  They are garbage and take prestige from what it means to be a champ.  Carwin is a world champion, remember that.  Condit is a wolrd champion.  Those two take from the prestige fo being the champion and you want to hand out interim title shots at every opportunity.  Why?  This si a great model, lets not mkae the belt worth less than it already is after these free titles shots that heve been pased out by passing out more belts to guys who haven't earned them.  Other than that, fantastic.  

12/18/12 3:59 PM
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CLINTK9
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SinCityHustler - 
MMALOGIC - 
SupesUp -  I think you overestimate how often these guys, especially top guys fight. Otherwise it's a capital idea. Phone Post

the beauty is the top guys dont have to fight that often... each division keeps moving forward.  if a champ wants to take the next event off, you make the main event a #1 contenders bout and place it on free TV.  this way the marketplace gets to sample a main card with every weight class during the year for free (in addition to the free prelims) and you get to pull them back into ppv for the next one with the champ returning.

If the champ misses more then one you create an interim title and then unify... again no matter what happens, the division keeps moving forward. 


I like your idea a lot.   I hope this happens.  But please, enough with the interim titles.  They are garbage and take prestige from what it means to be a champ.  Carwin is a world champion, remember that.  Condit is a wolrd champion.  Those two take from the prestige fo being the champion and you want to hand out interim title shots at every opportunity.  Why?  This si a great model, lets not mkae the belt worth less than it already is after these free titles shots that heve been pased out by passing out more belts to guys who haven't earned them.  Other than that, fantastic.  


I agree no intrem titles. unless champ leaves ufc, retires or dies they are the champ. other will have to wait and be #1,2,3 conteders until thier shot.

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