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S&C UnderGround >> Opinions on Rippetoe squat technique?


12/18/12 2:43 AM
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orcus
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In a lot of videos on youtube of his, you'll see a lot of comments laughing at them and calling them "squat mornings" since some of them look kind of good-morning-esque with the more bent over position, and driving up with the hips and then straightening the back.

What do you all think about the way he coaches the squat? 

12/18/12 6:13 AM
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suBJJective warMTh
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YouTube comments are not a good source of information. Ever.

Rippetoe's low bar squat technique with tight shoulders and "hirp drahve" is fine.

Depending on your anatomy you might be best off making adjustments but as a one size fits all technique I can't see a problem with it.

Disclaimer: all of this is just IMO. Phone Post
12/18/12 9:53 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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pretty much agree with the above...

also, for every comment that someone posts "making fun" of Rippetoe, you'll probably see 20+ ripping that person a new one.

12/18/12 11:43 AM
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orcus
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So, no problem with the back motion of his trainees (or of himself in one video)?

12/18/12 12:07 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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which video are you specifically talking about, brother?

12/18/12 7:23 PM
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bigbabyjesus
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This site has a good breakdown of the pros and cons
http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/

In general, high bar uses the quads and glutes as the main movers; although, the glutes are activated more the deeper you squat.
Low bar uses the glutes and hamstrings as the main movers. It essentially is a squat-morning.
You can go deeper using high-bar while low bar may be more useful for general health as most people's posterior chains are weak.
12/18/12 10:30 PM
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orcus
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ArthurKnoqOut - 

which video are you specifically talking about, brother?


Here's Rip himself:

 

12/18/12 10:55 PM
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orcus
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bigbabyjesus - This site has a good breakdown of the pros and cons
http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/

In general, high bar uses the quads and glutes as the main movers; although, the glutes are activated more the deeper you squat.
Low bar uses the glutes and hamstrings as the main movers. It essentially is a squat-morning.
You can go deeper using high-bar while low bar may be more useful for general health as most people's posterior chains are weak.

Good article, thanks.

12/19/12 2:57 AM
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NeoSpartan
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I reworked my entire squat technique and restarted with just the bar. I use a weird mixture of Rippetoe's style & Westside. Take this with a grain of salt, I think everyone has their own squat style that really works for them, this is mine (and thus my advice is peppered with a lot of mistakes from my own experience). Hopefully this helps someone out. This is going to be stream of thought here so bear with me

- Rip's squat style isn't as wide but imo doesn't sit back as much. I find this much better for the raw lifter. more comfortable and a much more athletic position imo. Without briefs going super wide is kind of awkward. That said, I think you should sit back as far as possible.

- Rip also advocates looking down 5 feet in front of you. This doesn't work for me I'm kyphotic as is! I just have difficulty staying and I'll round my shoulders. So I prefer to look "up". Basically to stand as TALL as possible with good posture and really make my torso one piece, I'm just moving around my hips and bouncing out of the bottom. I don't look at the ceiling, as this throws you way out of alignment (as rip notes in starting strength), I just look forward and stay focused on keeping my back so tight I feel like my pecs will pull off my sternum and my belly pushed out so hard I want to poop. When i was just using the bar I actually did the "hold a tennis ball under your chin" thing. "stacking your neck" really makes a difference. I think that's what rip is trying to get across.

- I've found that basically squatting like I would on the box works for me. Squatting raw I'm not going as wide, so I use rippetoe's parameters for feet width etc, except that i try to sitback and spread the floor a LOT more. Don't be stupid wide, but basically put your knees over your feet and align your bone structure right.

- He also advocates a slight turn out of the toes. I prefer to keep them as straight as possible (per westside recommendation) and I feel it helps me bounce out of the hole a LOT better.

- Spend time mastering your technique. Especially fatigued, nothing wrong with stripping down a bit and getting some singles and doubles in the 75-80% range. It's not going to fatigue you that much and it will go 1000% farther than anything else you have planned. It sounds weird, but until I really REALLY worked on my spatial awareness I don't think I was putting the bar in the most advantageous bar path. Seriously figure it out. Don't just grit through it. Squat, adjust, squat again, put your hips back far enough, tighten your core more, stand up straighter... whatever you have to do. A squat should feel TIGHT, uncomfortable, and like you're about to explode, but it SHOULDN"T hurt. Especially not afterwards. If you're hurting when you squat you're doing it wrong!

Really go Zen buddhist with this... Practice! make your squat BEAUTIFUL. I started over with the bar and just have been working on beauty, slowly incrementally adding a bit of weight every session and I've been seeing the best gains of my life.


- out of the bottom make sure that it is your HEAD that moves first. Again. HEAD MOVES FIRST. Push back against the bar like you're trying to break it over your upper back (use your abs to do this) and simultaneously with your knees spread properly over your feet push the earth away. These tips make me do less of a goodmorning standing up and I try to blast straight out of the hole.




I can't think of anything else so as my personal hero forrest gump would say... "And that's all I have to say about that."
12/19/12 10:16 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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great write up, Neo VTFU.

I think I'll add that depending on your hip mobility and your sacrum/lumbar stability, it will influence your squat "technique" a lot. Both, Westside, Rippetoe, Wendler, etc have their own techniques because they've noticed things in their experience.

12/19/12 8:29 PM
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NeoSpartan
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Thanks for the vote up :)
12/20/12 10:06 AM
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None So Blind
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"You can go deeper using high-bar while low bar may be more useful for general health as most people's posterior chains are weak."

THIS

It's not so much that his squat is "good or bad," just that it does things differently such that it may be more or less in line with your priorities.

To oversimplify, if you want to do an exercise that is 80% quads and 20% everything else because you want cannon quads for whatever reason, rock on; if you want an exercise that is 55% quads and 45% everything else as a more "general strengthening" exercise, go for it, whatever floats your boat.
12/20/12 2:17 PM
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The Gunslinger
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Rip is good at what he does and is pretty knowledgeable. I've worked with him personally. That said, he is stuck in his ways and if it isn't his, he ain't having it.

I've got a solid 415 low bar back squat, but I've recently switched to a high bar style due to more emphasis on olympic weightlifting. I used to think low bar was better but I'm becoming more of the school of thought that Fred Hatfield espouses that you should train using high bar and display strength using low bar. I found that high bar is much more difficult and I can get so much deeper it just really makes a difference. I started out low barring and have done it my whole life (training for over 15 years) and this is the first time I've dedicated to high bar, so it may vary for people who have done the opposite.
12/20/12 3:57 PM
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NeoSpartan
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@None So Blind,

High bar squats are usually for someone that's going to be doing probably more pulling than they will squats anyway. So p-chain development is never really a problem. That said for the general population that will never do a full snatch in their life then i agree the low bar squat is probably the best bang for your buck.


@gunslinger,

What shoes do you squat in? I HAVE to use oly shoes to squat high bar otherwise it just feels like shit if I go over a certain weight.

12/21/12 4:34 PM
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JZilla
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Interesting thread guys, thanks Phone Post
12/22/12 7:50 PM
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The Gunslinger
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I use Oly shoes or barefoot. I much prefer the Olys though I'm I good either way. If you feel overly reliant on them, you probably need some mobility work.
12/24/12 11:14 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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The Gunslinger - I use Oly shoes or barefoot. I much prefer the Olys though I'm I good either way. If you feel overly reliant on them, you probably need some mobility work.

pistol squats will help with that ankle issue.

12/24/12 4:46 PM
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NeoSpartan
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possible. I think it's a hip thing, I have pretty flexible ankles from swimming with fins a lot but i'll look into it thanks
12/28/12 3:00 PM
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orcus
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Anything wrong with using something (in my case a bucket) to touch my ass to to make sure each squat is the same depth?

12/28/12 4:20 PM
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NeoSpartan
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Nah touch and go is a good method imo as long as you stay tight like a virgin butthole.

@ Arthur & Gunslinger

ya my dorsiflexion sucks, I can almost bend my ankles like 90 degrees though. Thanks for that maxwell article (in another thread) AKO!
12/29/12 9:57 AM
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acamp76144
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Sub Phone Post
12/29/12 1:57 PM
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Taku
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I've not trained with Rip nor read any of his books. My experience has been that one must actually work with a coach, ;ive and in person to truly understand thier approach.

TAKU

1/2/13 12:20 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 01/02/13 1:12 PM
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If I'm going below parallel but my sticking point is somewhere between parallel and a bit above that, what is my problem? edit: Google tells me probably glutes/hamstrings.

I'm really trying to stick to the program. Rip and others who've been training people for decades seem pretty adamant that people who aren't "strong" don't need to mess with much or anything in the way of assistance, and in fact that it is counter-productive. They seem pretty certain that just working the main lifts will shore up the weak points. I'm trying not to just go off and do my own thing rather than stick with what is clearly tried-and-true, but if I'm struggling at that point, what choice do I have?


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