UnderGround Forums
 

Boxing UnderGround >> Thoughts on Wilfred Benitez?


12/19/12 7:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HayemakeredByHaye
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 6061
 
Just been watching some of his fights on youtube and I really like his style.

Where would rank him all time compared to Duran etc?

Apparently he only trained 9-10 days for the Leonard fight, which apparently wasn't that unusual for him
12/20/12 10:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
martinburke
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5778
Benitez did a lot better when he fought somebody
slower that came to him. That's why Duran was made to order.

Talnted, but a step below elite.

I talked to a guy who worked in the Benitez camp a few times. From what he said(so take into account this is second-hand hearsay) Benitez was showing mental problems way back in the late '70s/early 80s. Like just deciding to shit on the carpet right in the middle of a room...stuff like that.

More than a few people have told me that his father was one of the biggest scumbags in boxing; he exploited the hell out of his sons starting when they were little kids

And I like Duran...a lot, actually. I think he's one of the best fighters of the post-WWII era. But I think the thing that made him great was his secret weapon: he had an old-school trainer from the '30s, Freddy Brown. It also didn't hurt that he had the weakest sets of challengers in lightweight history up to that point.
12/20/12 12:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HayemakeredByHaye
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 6074
Interesting about Benitez. If his work ethic and short camps are true that has to have had a big impact.

I am a little surprised at your comments on Duran. He is my favourite fighter so I am probably biased and perhaps your comments are not as disparaging as I am reading them lol, but it seems unfair to give so much credit to a trainer and having weak challengers. I mean he moved up in weight to beat Leonard and was able to fight competitively against the very best up to middleweight.

Best fighter I have ever seen.

Have you ever done a thread where you ranked who you thought the best fighters were post WWII? If you ever got the time I am sure many people would be interested on your thoughts on the likes of Leonard etc.
12/20/12 1:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
oblongo
78 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12/20/12 4:26 PM
Member Since: 4/20/02
Posts: 4342
More than one person who knew him has claimned that he was retarded or whatever the current politcally correct term.

In Peter Heller's biography of Mike Tyson, he tells about Benitez and his camp coming to live with Cus D'Amato to train for, I think, the fight with Carlos Palomino.

Cus called everyone who lived at the house together to warn them that all these Puerto Ricans were coming in and all they knew was drinking and fucking and they wouldn't have any manners but you'd have to overlook it because they were a bunch of islanders who didn't know any better. You read that and think what a racist fuck. Then Heller says they were even worse than D'Amato said they would be, doing all sorts of crazy shit.

D'Amato finally kicked them out when the stench from Benitiez's room got so bad they went in to find out what it was and found he'd been wiping his ass with bath towels and just throwing them down beside the commode.
12/20/12 2:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
martinburke
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5779
^^^^holy crap!

HayemakeredbyHaye, no question Duran could hang with the upper level fighters in several divisions in the modern era. I just have serious doubts about him being ranked top ten PfP.

I mean, geez...Lou Bizarro and Leoncio Ortiz almost went the distance with Duran.

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of long-term champions are from the 1960s to the present.

Take this example. The middleweight division has always been the most competitive. Before WWII, I don't think there were any champs who could hold the belt for more than three years...and we're talking about some truly awesome fighters.

Since the late '50s/early '60s the normal state of each division is one(rarely two)fighters who could compete in any era, and then a steep drop-off in quality after that. That's allowed fighters like Monzon, Hagler, and Hopkins to hold the title for many defenses. The depth of competition just isn't there like it was pre-war.

Another example- Archie Moore was one of a grop of talented black fighters at middleweight/light heavy in the pre-war era. While Moore was an exceptional fighter, he was back in the pack... a contender, but not able to distance himself from the others.

It wasn't until after WWII, when his contemporaries retired and he began to face a younger crop with less experience, who hadn't faced the same depth of competition. This is when regular ol' Archie became the Ol' Mongoose. Had he gotten better? of course not, he was older and more shopworn. but he was fighting guys who had nowhere near the same trial by fire that he'd had.

This trend has continued since.

I'm gonna hate to have to sit and think about a list of post-war fighters. It's gonna piss people off, and I want to have some links to let people see why I chose those on the list.

Why do you want to make me work so hard

12/20/12 3:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HayemakeredByHaye
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 6076
Lol. Your level of knowledge is rare, so while I dont like to put you out, I have to ask.

Yeah agree and think its fascinating about the talent and difference pre WWII, but I wont have a bad word said about Duran lol.

Oblongo

Thats madness.
12/20/12 4:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
martinburke
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5780
Oh, I think Duran could have been champion in many eras. I just have my doubts as to whether he'd be a dominant champion in many of those eras.

But he's still one of my favorites. I've never once pulled for any of his opponents.
12/21/12 4:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
pharochuck
316 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 7824
MixedMartialArts LLC, Moderator
benitez was very good, but i think duran would have took him at 135
12/21/12 8:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
martinburke
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5784
"Benitez did a lot better when he fought somebody
slower that came to him..."

I forgot to add "at a measured pace"
12/22/12 12:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
seek
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/18/02
Posts: 1799
"But I think the thing that made him great was his secret weapon: he had an old-school trainer from the '30s, Freddy Brown. "

Brother, how would you describe an old school trainer from the 30s???

Very intersting!

Thank you!
12/22/12 1:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
martinburke
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5787
Brown was one of the great trainers who worked in Stillman's gym in boxing's heyday. Tons of great fighters, lots of smart, talented trainers...all learning(or stealing) from one another. It was the closest thing to a boxing university that ever existed.

And then they got to put it into practice 7 days a week. There were boxing cards every night somewhere in the metro area. it's just like anything else - if you have to compete against the best night after night, you're either gonna get really good at what you do or you're gonna get your ass handed to you.

That all began to die off after WWII. Economic opportunity expanded exponentially, so a guy didn't HAVE to box to make good money.

Other sports began to take some of boxing's fans. Before the war, boxing was the only night-time sport. Improvements in lighting allowed baseball and harness racing to steal away a lot of spectators from the fights.

And TV killed the small clubs, the training grounds for both fighters and trainers. So what we have left is what you see now - a sad shadow of what once was.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.