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UnderGround Forums >> More important: 1st UFC gay fighter or 1st female?


12/20/12 10:26 PM
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Underground Blog
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In his Twitter mailbag this week, MMAJunkie's Ben Fowlkes was asked which was the more important aspect of Ronda Rousey vs. Liz Carmouche headlining  UFC 157 - Ronda Rousey being the first female UFC fighter or Liz Carmouche being the first openly gay UFC fighter?

"They both represent pretty giant leaps for the UFC," said Fowlkes. "But let's be honest here and admit that in American sports culture – particularly in contact sports, like MMA – there's a big difference between attitudes toward lesbian women and attitudes toward gay men. That's not to say it's no big deal for Carmouche to be the first openly homosexual fighter to compete in the UFC – it is. But I have a feeling that many of the same fans who have zero problem with seeing a lesbian compete in a UFC main event would not feel quite so comfortable watching a gay man headline a pay-per-view. There just isn't that same stigma attached to homosexuality in many women's sports. If anything, a lot of people are ready to assume that a successful female athlete is a lesbian, whereas male athletes still use the mere accusation of homosexuality as a sort of nuclear option against each other.

"That attitude toward male homosexuality in sports is stupid and embarrassing and bigoted, and it has to change. I think it will change, eventually. I really hope we get to a point where we only care how well someone can fight, and not who they'll be grinding on after too many drinks at the after-party. Sadly, I don't think we're there yet. I think MMA in particular still has a lot of fans who hold bigoted attitudes toward gay men, which is a damn shame. Maybe Carmouche can begin to change some minds there. My suspicion is that there are more people willing to get worked up over the fact that two women are taking the main event spot (dry those tears, Dan Henderson fans) than the fact that one of them is a lesbian. Maybe that's a good thing. Once those people get used to the idea that sexual orientation has nothing to do with how good a fighter someone is, maybe they'll think it's no big deal when the UFC has an openly gay male fighter. I hope so."

Read entire Q&A...


12/20/12 10:35 PM
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Clarence Parents
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1st UFC female was technically the gateway for the 1st UFC gay fighter..


1st UFC female was more against the odds since Dana had been on record as saying:
"there will never be females fighting in the UFC"

Dana did not say:
"there will never be gays/homosexuals fighting in the ufc"

I think the fact that Ronda enabled both of these options in the thread title puts her ahead.
12/20/12 10:37 PM
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Clarence Parents
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I'm not trying to take anything away from LC though.. it's definitely a step in the right direction that she managed to get this spotlight and is so open about her lifestyle.
12/20/12 10:40 PM
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jfw jr
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Why does it matter? It's happening at the exact same time.
12/20/12 10:42 PM
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Clarence Parents
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jfw jr - Why does it matter? It's happening at the exact same time.

Well I guess technically Liz Carmouche will officially be the first gay fighter and the first female fighter to actually step foot in the octagon for a fight.

12/20/12 10:42 PM
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Enemies
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First gay UFC fighter my ass. :P
12/20/12 10:46 PM
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scaredy cat
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I think the 1st woman is more important in this instance, judging by the (predictable) outcries about women being in the UFC compared to the reaction to a homosexual woman being in the octagon. A lot of guys who watch this sport have the typical male fantasies about lesbians but think there's no place for women in the UFC. Now if it ever comes to the first openly homosexual man entering the octagon we'll see a much stronger reaction to a fighter's sexuality.

I still think it's great for LGBT recognition to have a gay fighter in the UFC though. I wish her all the best for the big fight.
12/20/12 11:46 PM
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BooZe
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I'm sure she's not the first gay fighter in the UFC... Phone Post
12/21/12 12:05 AM
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scaredy cat
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BooZe -  I'm sure she's not the first gay fighter in the UFC... Phone Post

The operative word here is "openly".
12/21/12 12:07 AM
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Chris Power
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Fortunate for Carmouche that she'll get to be both, I suppose.
12/21/12 12:07 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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I got news for you, Faber ain't no pioneer. Plus, being gay and female doesn't count because it's universally considered hot, even in the 50's. Phone Post
12/21/12 12:10 AM
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Seats Taken
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Everyone always wants so much equality.. But then it's such a huge deal when the first "gay" fighter steps in the cage. She's just a fighter. Her sexual preference outside of the cage shouldn't matter either way. Phone Post
12/21/12 12:10 AM
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pwdrblu
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For the 1st gay UFC fighter getting ready to come out, save it honey, nobody gives a fuck so just keep it between u and ur butt lover.
12/21/12 12:13 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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I'm joking of course, being openly gay takes courage, but being male = that escalated quickly meme Phone Post
12/21/12 12:14 AM
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SasquatchShaman
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If we are all being honest, there is a big difference culturally between a gay male fighter and a gay female fighter.
But to answer the question, unlike most posts, in this situation a female fighter is more important. Every female fighter gets a masculine label, regardless of orientation.
Gay male fighter would be bigger than both though.
12/21/12 1:50 AM
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yellow wrkahlc
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I think the casual fan already sees a female fighter and automatically thinks 'lesbian.' Until a male fighter comes out, this whole 'openly gay' thing isn't as news-worthy. Phone Post
12/21/12 9:36 AM
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In Limbo
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Clarence Parents - 1st UFC female was technically the gateway for the 1st UFC gay fighter..


1st UFC female was more against the odds since Dana had been on record as saying:
"there will never be females fighting in the UFC"

Dana did not say:
"there will never be gays/homosexuals fighting in the ufc"

I think the fact that Ronda enabled both of these options in the thread title puts her ahead.

this fight represents a HUGE PR opportunity for the UFC/MMA....this, in a way, should "Desensitize" lots of people

there is a reason they are the main event

12/21/12 11:16 AM
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mikerobmma
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I spoke about this yesterday. I know plenty of women fighters, and a good number are lesbians. I pointed out the fact that every serious woman at my gym is a lesbian. Whatever. They train and they are my teammates so who cares.

 

So I don't see what the big deal is about Liz being gay. I hate this "openly" gay shit, because it basically just means that she screams from the mountaintops that she is a lesbian. Um, good job?

You know what I consider important? Whether or not she is actually a good fighter. That's what is important.

Like others have and will mention, it would be much more significant for a male fighter to be gay and fighting in the UFC. Even in other pro sports leagues (NBA, MLB, NFL) it would be a big deal.

12/21/12 11:32 AM
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youarebad
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At least we got our 'stupid UG article of the day' out of the way early today. Post real news.
12/21/12 12:07 PM
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fightharder
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youarebad - At least we got our 'stupid UG article of the day' out of the way early today. Post real news.

With all due respect but how can you say this is not news. It might not be sport related news but if you think that these barriers being broken are not newsworthy you are obviously kidding yourself.

 

I personally do think being gay should not be an issue whatsoever. And while i am happy that woman MMA  gets acceptance as well i still hold on to some reserve in terms of woman fighting. I guess i am somewhat oldfashioned that way (and it is probably very silly because all of these woman would kick my ass) but a beat up woman (even if she is a professional athelete) is a pretty harrowing thing for me to see.

 

So i did think that article was newsworthy and i enjoyed it (as i mostly do Fowlkes posts) but it did get annoyed a little by the Hendo comment. While i appreciate the magnitude of how special this fight is because of the ''politics'' i do think there should be some sympathy for Hendo position as well. This is a guy should have gotten a titleshot,instead has to fight a fellow contender and now is ever relegated to a co main event instead of the main event. Seeing that Hendo has the propensity to do his best work in long drawn out fights the UFC is depriving the fans of a sure classic as well. They should have put Ronda vs Carmouche on another card, a card that has a less worthy candidate of co main event status.

12/21/12 12:39 PM
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Beezulbubba
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Being the first women's title fight is both huge news and great news, especially with Dana sharing his thoughts about it the past few years. It's good he gave it a chance.

Being the first gay fighter is about as shattering as being the first straight fighter. Has no bearing whatsoever in the mainstream concerns of 98% of people. And is no different then being a straight fighter.
12/21/12 1:17 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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cmon now...carmouche is not the first gay fighter in the ufc

12/21/12 1:17 PM
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undisputed1972
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Fucking hell, the homo agenda has got it's claws everywhere hasn't it? TV and cinema is littered with gays and their propaganda, now we're being pushed to accept this perversion via the UFC now.

12/21/12 2:39 PM
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56sav
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What exactly is there to celebrate about a gay in MMA?
12/21/12 4:24 PM
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mikerobmma
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thatsme - I don't have any respect for anyone who throws throws their sex life in everyone's face.

The paradox is that gays are the first ones to tell you to keep your nose out of their sex lives, yet they are the first ones to put their sex lives in your face.
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