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Boxing UnderGround >> Ranking Boxing Trainers


12/22/12 3:22 PM
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rorymcd
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I love reading about old training styles and coaching methods, which got me to thinking how I would rank trainers. I don't have as a wide a depth a knowledge as some (martinburk), so I'll do my top 5 off the top of my head:

1. Angelo Dundee
2. Ray Arcel
3. Emanuel Steward
4. Jack Blackburn
5. Cus D'Amato
12/22/12 7:56 PM
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oblongo
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If you go by who had the most success with the greatest number of fighters, I'd say you'd have to put Ray Arcel at the top.

After that, I'd say Arcel's one-time partner Whitey Bimstein, then Eddie Futch and Steward.

Dundee and D'Amato wouldn't even make my top 10. They just didn't have the number of great of fighters that a lot of other trainers did.

12/22/12 8:52 PM
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martinburke
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12/23/12 9:22 AM
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jw234
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What about coaches like Weldon who make great boxers from scratch, unlike others who take already great boxers and keep them in shape until they lose? Phone Post
12/23/12 9:32 AM
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martinburke
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12/23/12 4:59 PM
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jw234
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No kidding? Had no idea. Very cool. Phone Post
12/27/12 6:25 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 12/27/12 6:27 PM
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martinburke - Bill "Pop" Miller was instrumental in developing Sugar Ray Robinson. He also developed Tiger Flowers. A real teacher like Goldman, and not just a good cut man or motivator.


Was this the same Bill Miller that worked with James Toney?
12/28/12 12:19 AM
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martinburke
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12/28/12 12:41 AM
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rorymcd
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martinburke, any suggested reading regarding these old trainers? I'd be interested in anything from training methods to boxing stories.
12/28/12 10:30 AM
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martinburke
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12/28/12 1:42 PM
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buddie
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OP how could you put D'mato ahead of Futch? He's at the top of the list IMO. I love Dundee, but no way he's #1.
12/29/12 2:10 PM
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Chappie
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I was always a huge fan of Eddie Futch, I always liked his calm reasoned demeanor in the corner and they fact that he always provided technical advice rather than simply pop psychology. I understand that Dundee, Duva & Atlas are held in high esteem by most, and for good reason, they all achieved great accomplishments in the sport, but personally, it always bothered me whenever they would simply cheerlead fighters in the corner and send them back out between rounds without providing any technical advice. Phone Post
12/29/12 8:35 PM
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martinburke
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12/30/12 2:31 AM
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PoundforPound
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martinburke - No, that Bill Miller was in Detroit.

Pop Miller was in Harlem and died in the mid- or late-1950s. Pretty sure he trained Archie Moore for a while, too.

The Detroit Bill Miller was called Pops so that made me wonder.

You mind giving your take on Cus D'Amato again? I know you are somewhat down on him but I forgot your exact reasoning.

I was watching video of Kevin Rooney training on YouTube and the methods Cus passed down to him seem unique and pretty comprehensive.
12/30/12 7:26 PM
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martinburke
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1/3/13 12:26 AM
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AristidesBrito
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Martin, a pro fighter i'm friends with named Kojack Handy, talked about sparring with the " white Tyson" Danny Batchelder and said the same thing you did, how it's as simple as pushing them backwards to make the peekaboo style fighters reset and have to start over Phone Post
1/3/13 11:40 PM
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youngcorbett
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What do you guys think of Russ Anber?
1/4/13 1:04 AM
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rorymcd
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I've watched his Title instructionals which are great, especially for fundamentals. Also he used to have a segment on TSN called "In This Corner" that I liked.
He works with some top notch guys like Sergio Martinez, and seems to have a great boxing mind.
I remember when he and his prodigy David Lemieux parted ways, he handled it with class, and genuinely seemed to want the best for the kid.

Here he is talking about Sergio and the state of boxing:

2/24/13 12:52 AM
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Keith Palmer
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There's a biography on Ray Arcel available in ebook format. It's a good read. It didn't go into too much that you won't find in the "Corner Men" book by Fried, but there are some pretty good stories in it. Arcel held Jack Blackburn in very high regard.

Gil Clancy was a very underrated trainer. He's not mentioned as often as he should be.
2/24/13 12:55 AM
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Keith Palmer
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Carlos Monzon's trainer, Amilcar Brusa does not get mentioned as often as he should either.
2/24/13 12:16 PM
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PoundforPound
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Keith Palmer - Gil Clancy was a very underrated trainer. He's not mentioned as often as he should be.


I thought Clancy gave Oscar de la Hoya the perfect gameplan to beat Felix Trinidad. Those little lateral steps combined with constant in and out movement had Tito looking utterly lost for 7 rounds.

It's a shame that he let Oscar get so conservative towards the end of the fight.
2/24/13 1:52 PM
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martinburke
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2/24/13 6:08 PM
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buddie
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PoundforPound - 
Keith Palmer - Gil Clancy was a very underrated trainer. He's not mentioned as often as he should be.


I thought Clancy gave Oscar de la Hoya the perfect gameplan to beat Felix Trinidad. Those little lateral steps combined with constant in and out movement had Tito looking utterly lost for 7 rounds.

It's a shame that he let Oscar get so conservative towards the end of the fight.

I agree with the first part, De La Hoya befuddled Tito early, but two things.

1. Clancy was urging Oscar to run and it was inexcusably ridiculous how much he ran. that wasn't boxing, it was straight up avoiding.

2. No excuses as I think Oscar won. But that was almost like two fights. Oscar looked incredible early and Tito looked lost coming into the ring. I remember the "Oh shit" look on his face when walking in and iirc the commentators even mentioned it. Tito came on late so strong and Oscar looked lost. Its a shame these two weren't showing their best stuff at the same time in the fight. It should have been an excellent match-up.
2/24/13 6:10 PM
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buddie
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^correction on the above, I don't think Oscar ever looked lost, but I think when Trinidad started setting down on his shots, he thought to himself "fuck this" and was happy to try to coast to the win.
2/24/13 11:21 PM
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pharochuck
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buddie - ^correction on the above, I don't think Oscar ever looked lost, but I think when Trinidad started setting down on his shots, he thought to himself "fuck this" and was happy to try to coast to the win.
I agree. The constant pressure and coming forward made Oscar decide to just go into cruise control. But he still should have won the fight 8 rounds to 4. You might could give Tito one round before Oscar got on the bicycle. A draw or close Oscar win is realistic, no way Trinidad won. But yet I am not mad at the decision Phone Post

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