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UnderGround Forums >> Mike Swick grappling demo vs heavyweight VID


12/24/12 10:43 PM
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TalkShowOnMute
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Canooke - Sort of cheesy that he got Big House to kneel while he himself stood up.

I thought so too..but then I realized..he is basically the same size on his knees as Swick is standing...dude is a beast I guarantee he is stronger/more solid from his knees than most men in a 3 point stance..haha.
12/24/12 10:49 PM
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JonnyW
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Tyson86 - Jesus, that was one big mofo. Swick is what 6'0 feet tall? Guy must of been nearing 300 pounds?

Still though, he couldn't take on Swick. Can you imagine what another big (and trained) guy like Overeem would do to him?

I bet it would have been a little different if the guy stood up.
12/25/12 12:05 AM
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Chris Leben is a Zombie
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In Phone Post
12/25/12 12:05 AM
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JSMHP
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The guys name is Lonnie he is 6'7" and 330 there. The video is older. After that deployment I got him to take training seriously for about six months. Work eventually got in the way and he had to cut back dramatically. This last year he took 3rd at ALL Army without training a day.

Swick could armbar him from guard but I doubt he could triangle him. Lonnie is a great guy he doesn't mean any of the shit talking its just him playing.
12/25/12 12:35 AM
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rundymc
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JonnyW - 
Tyson86 - Jesus, that was one big mofo. Swick is what 6'0 feet tall? Guy must of been nearing 300 pounds?

Still though, he couldn't take on Swick. Can you imagine what another big (and trained) guy like Overeem would do to him?

I bet it would have been a little different if the guy stood up.

Or gone hard. Both of them were going pretty light here. A big guy like that can power out of a lot of stuff average sized guys put on them. We have a blue belt in our class that has 40kg (88lbs) and 5 inches on me. Half my goto shit doesn't work on him, the other half is a nightmare to pull off on account of the vastly different leverages/Center of Gravity.
12/25/12 12:46 AM
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escudo
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rundymc - 
JonnyW - 
Tyson86 - Jesus, that was one big mofo. Swick is what 6'0 feet tall? Guy must of been nearing 300 pounds?

Still though, he couldn't take on Swick. Can you imagine what another big (and trained) guy like Overeem would do to him?

I bet it would have been a little different if the guy stood up.

Or gone hard. Both of them were going pretty light here. A big guy like that can power out of a lot of stuff average sized guys put on them. We have a blue belt in our class that has 40kg (88lbs) and 5 inches on me. Half my goto shit doesn't work on him, the other half is a nightmare to pull off on account of the vastly different leverages/Center of Gravity.

There is no powering out of that bicep crush, the best he could hope to do is try to get to his feet but Swick knows this and would have followed up with either omoplata or the belly down armbar.

I'm 6'4" 160ish there is things I can do that most people can't and some things don't come nearly as easy to me as they do to people with more average body types, It's just a matter of exploiting the things your body does best and working hard to eliminate the weaknesses.

Bet that guy gasses long before swick would UFC level competitor or not.
12/25/12 1:22 AM
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mike hammer
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Well I'm not sure why Swick got to stand and the marine had to be on his knees? Not exactly fair by any means...on top of that that Marine is still wearing his socks so he would have been losing traction opposed to if he was bare foot. He was at a major disadvantage in that match. Not saying Swick couldn't have beat him but he had way more mobility than buddy for the fact he was on his knees. Not hating on Swick that guy was a beast he was wrestling with but the fact is he didn't want to lose face in that match so he made an excuse to stand up saying he was the same height anyways. He did that because he felt this guys strength and need any advantage he could get. If both were standing this would have would been tough for Swick to win this one plain and simple.
12/25/12 3:39 AM
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AokiPants
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mike hammer - Well I'm not sure why Swick got to stand and the marine had to be on his knees? Not exactly fair by any means...on top of that that Marine is still wearing his socks so he would have been losing traction opposed to if he was bare foot. He was at a major disadvantage in that match. Not saying Swick couldn't have beat him but he had way more mobility than buddy for the fact he was on his knees. Not hating on Swick that guy was a beast he was wrestling with but the fact is he didn't want to lose face in that match so he made an excuse to stand up saying he was the same height anyways. He did that because he felt this guys strength and need any advantage he could get. If both were standing this would have would been tough for Swick to win this one plain and simple.

If this, if that...

This was a friendly match, neither guy was going super hard. Sure the big guy could have stood up, he could have muscled everything, but then again if Swick was actually trying he would have pulled out the great equalizer and heel hooked this guy's foot off, standing or not standing. But of course he didn't do that because they were just playing around.

Also, disadvantage because of socks? Not sure if troll...
12/25/12 5:39 AM
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California
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subd
12/25/12 6:30 AM
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LBH_RN
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Army guy was in socks, and on his knees...and injured.
12/25/12 6:37 AM
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Easytarget
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Wonder how it would go if they both stood, getting a guy to the ground would've been a serious test.
12/25/12 7:52 AM
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shark tank
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i've rolled with guys that are quite large (i'm big as well-5'10-210lbs) but armbars and triangles are not the way to go. taking their back and choking them is the way to go. there's a guy at our gym that can almost curl me if i go for an armbar from the bottom. and forget about breaking his posture with just your legs. the safest bet is a choke.
12/25/12 8:35 AM
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bemsqua
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Has there ever been a time when someone got the better of someone who was giving the seminar? I'm sure there would have to be....just never seen it.
12/25/12 9:00 AM
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BigSleep
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Lonnie versus Big Unit, who you got? Phone Post
12/25/12 9:56 AM
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Rantuckjr
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Why is anyone discussing who would win if this or that?

Save face?

It was a friendly demonstration and neither guy cared.

If the Jolly Green Giant subbed Swick its not like someone would be cutting Swick due to "losing" to a 6'4" 310lb monster in an exhibition.

Lets just enjoy the videos and appreciate what those guys went over there and did.
12/25/12 10:28 AM
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HULKSMASH
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I'm just glad Lonnie's on OUR side.. Phone Post
12/25/12 10:56 AM
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snowman95
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Sub Phone Post
12/25/12 11:41 AM
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Soup Nazi
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very cool

12/25/12 12:14 PM
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CLINT NJHC
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Edited: 12/25/12 12:15 PM
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.
12/25/12 12:27 PM
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bigheadrhino
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TalkShowOnMute - 
Canooke - Sort of cheesy that he got Big House to kneel while he himself stood up.

I thought so too..but then I realized..he is basically the same size on his knees as Swick is standing...dude is a beast I guarantee he is stronger/more solid from his knees than most men in a 3 point stance..haha.

would have been dangerous for both it they both stood up. mike would really need to go hard and there was concrete not too far away.
12/25/12 12:37 PM
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HaoleBoy
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Great video
12/25/12 12:43 PM
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Doc T
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Ttt Phone Post
12/25/12 1:44 PM
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mike hammer
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Edited: 12/25/12 1:49 PM
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AkoiPants I didn't mention the fact that Lonnie was wearing socks trying to troll. If you think that then you've obviously never grappled yourself. Socks are slippery as hell on a wrestling mat. They would be a major disadvantage opposed to wearing wrestling shoes or being bare foot. Being on your knees wrestling a guy who's standing is no way a fair competition in no shape or form. Add to the fact he has socks on gives no merrit to Swick's victory. Again not saying Swick wouldn't win this if it was a real competition but he was at major advantage with standing and being barefoot opposed to Lonnie being on his knees and wearing socks.
12/26/12 11:27 AM
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Akston
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That guy with Condit had it coming Phone Post
12/26/12 12:18 PM
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Choked72
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This match is interesting for a number of reasons - obviously the size disparity drives a lot of it, but you really come away from this seeing how training has changed since the first UFC.

Think back to UFC 1 and what it was about. It was about style vs style and no weight limits. As a consequence of this, the strategies used by jiu-jitsu fighters (Royce in this case, but any fighter when there were no weight limits) were very specific.

Consider the side mount position that Swick had here. And consider how quickly he was bucked off (at 1:50), at the will of the larger serviceman. There's a better way to ride someone in side mount if he's a lot bigger than you. Here's a video from Stephan Kesting that shows it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hk8TqG3Yik&list=UUXpu025o8edxR9b4NMbH11A&index=28

But Swick didn't approach it that way. Why? Because he's a professional athlete that is paid to fight people in his own weight class. As such, he used strategies that he uses for people his size, with a few exceptions (his high mount was well adapted by riding off to the side on one knee).

Back in the 80s and 90s, if you practiced jiu-jitsu, the culture towards training was very different than it is now. Certainly the techniques have changed, but the philosophy was far more self defense oriented and tilted toward the smaller man being able to beat the bigger man. A lot of what people trained back then had a natural orientation toward avoiding the big man's strengths and weight.

How might Swick's strategy been different if he were self defense trained and specialized in fighting bigger opponents?

I think there are a few things he might have done: Royce's fight with Akebono is one prototype where from the guard, Royce tried to squirt out to the side to avoid being crushed and applied a small joint lock. Another approach would have been a scramble to get the big guy's back. Still another would have been to move laterally (which Swick could have done much more easily given he was up on his feet....) and try to attack from angles and leverage with the objective to get on top.

None of this is meant to be a rip on Swick. He's a pro who did the job well in a friendly environment. But this video shows the upside and downside of sport training vs self defense training. Swick is a great athlete and sportsman. Because of this, he did what he knew. But I think if you took a black belt out of the Gracie Academy in Torrance, you would have gotten a win from the small man, but a completely different strategy.

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