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UnderGround Forums >> Mike Swick grappling demo vs heavyweight VID


12/26/12 1:22 PM
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Vulva Fabulous
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Choked72 - This match is interesting for a number of reasons - obviously the size disparity drives a lot of it, but you really come away from this seeing how training has changed since the first UFC.

Think back to UFC 1 and what it was about. It was about style vs style and no weight limits. As a consequence of this, the strategies used by jiu-jitsu fighters (Royce in this case, but any fighter when there were no weight limits) were very specific.

Consider the side mount position that Swick had here. And consider how quickly he was bucked off (at 1:50), at the will of the larger serviceman. There's a better way to ride someone in side mount if he's a lot bigger than you. Here's a video from Stephan Kesting that shows it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hk8TqG3Yik&list=UUXpu025o8edxR9b4NMbH11A&index=28

But Swick didn't approach it that way. Why? Because he's a professional athlete that is paid to fight people in his own weight class. As such, he used strategies that he uses for people his size, with a few exceptions (his high mount was well adapted by riding off to the side on one knee).

Back in the 80s and 90s, if you practiced jiu-jitsu, the culture towards training was very different than it is now. Certainly the techniques have changed, but the philosophy was far more self defense oriented and tilted toward the smaller man being able to beat the bigger man. A lot of what people trained back then had a natural orientation toward avoiding the big man's strengths and weight.

How might Swick's strategy been different if he were self defense trained and specialized in fighting bigger opponents?

I think there are a few things he might have done: Royce's fight with Akebono is one prototype where from the guard, Royce tried to squirt out to the side to avoid being crushed and applied a small joint lock. Another approach would have been a scramble to get the big guy's back. Still another would have been to move laterally (which Swick could have done much more easily given he was up on his feet....) and try to attack from angles and leverage with the objective to get on top.

None of this is meant to be a rip on Swick. He's a pro who did the job well in a friendly environment. But this video shows the upside and downside of sport training vs self defense training. Swick is a great athlete and sportsman. Because of this, he did what he knew. But I think if you took a black belt out of the Gracie Academy in Torrance, you would have gotten a win from the small man, but a completely different strategy.
Awesome awesome awesooooome post! Phone Post
12/26/12 1:28 PM
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orcus
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"None of this is meant to be a rip on Swick. He's a pro who did the job well in a friendly environment. But this video shows the upside and downside of sport training vs self defense training. Swick is a great athlete and sportsman. Because of this, he did what he knew. But I think if you took a black belt out of the Gracie Academy in Torrance, you would have gotten a win from the small man, but a completely different strategy."

Isn't it also possible that his opponent was actually more familiar with grappling than most of Royce's opponents?

Also, even Royce wasn't giving up 150lb to his opponents. This was a 330lb, in-shape guy with at least a passing familiarity with the ground, versus a 180lb man.

12/26/12 2:53 PM
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Choked72
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I think I addressed this if you re-read my post. Certainly he was more familiar with most of Royce's opponents but this is more about Swick than about the big guy.

If Swick trained FOR bigger people predominantly he would have taken a far different and more efficient strategic approach because that's what his experience is.

Specificity in training is what drives all our responses. "You fight like you train" in other words and Swick trains to fight people his own size, hence he fought the big man without much alteration from that mindset.
12/26/12 4:00 PM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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Swick regularly rolls with guys of all sizes. You took footage from a friendly roll and extrapolated that into Torrance BJJ propaganda. I thought that died when Laimon beat Ryron under "pure GJJ" rules

12/26/12 4:30 PM
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Choked72
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Haha - I don't think so GSMN.

It should be apparent that you react as you train and that fighting big people requires a different strategy than fighting people in your weight class.
12/26/12 4:43 PM
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Spazzo
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Good stuff Swick. Always one of my favorite fighters and even more now. Phone Post
12/26/12 9:06 PM
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Nitecrawler
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Awesome vid. Phone Post
1/21/13 11:40 PM
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AokiPants
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NotImpressedByYourScreenName -
Porkchop - the bicep crush. almost always works on big guys when you can't peel their arms apart. I got that from Dave Camarillo as Swick probly did too.
Explain please? I was wondering what the sub was - was waiting for him to go for the armbar and suddenly it was all over! Phone Post
When you're grabbing your own bicep in an attempt to stop your arm from extending, you're naturally curling your arms. Curling your arms means your bicep will be flexed, especially if you are resisting someone else pulling on the other end.

The bicep cutter is done by turning your arm that's hooking their arm flat so that your palm faces the floor, in turn lining the blade of your forearm against their bicep. As you pull back, your forearm will start cutting into their bicep/elbow. In order to increase the pressure, you can triangle your legs on top of their clasped arms, locking their arms in place and creating a lot of downward pressure on their bicep. People usually either tap to the bicep cutter or let their arm go, giving you the armbar.

And of course, the bigger your biceps are, the more muscle mass there is to crush, meaning that when this move is done on bulkier people, it's generally more effective. Phone Post

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