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Revgear League BJJGround >> Is there a better self defense than......

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12/27/12 8:34 AM
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aaronlapoi
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High Level Judo. Watch this highlight and you decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7R3MhLlaGY
12/27/12 10:42 AM
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PayItForward
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high level wrestling with boxing mixed in.

no can defend in the real world.
12/27/12 10:43 AM
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PayItForward
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12/27/12 10:48 AM
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PayItForward
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true story... i was a 230lbs. behemoth beast that lifted all the time and boxed... in college i got into it w/ this guy who was maybe 180lbs. he did his best to diffuse the situation and actually offered me a beer and to squash it....

in my jack off asshole phase i decided to take it to this "fag". he shot a double, picked me up and slammed me on my back. he held me down a sedcond and told me it was over and that he'd let me up if i was done. DEAL!

he bought me a drink afterwards and we shot the shit. he was some nasty HS wrestler back home in the midwest some where. i think ohio, can't recall....

this is what prompted me to find a grappling school... closes thing? bjj. and about that time UFC1 was airing.

started a club w/ a bunch of , you guessed it, ex-wrestlers. some were really good (D1 guys)... so my wrestling became better, quick...to this day people think i wrestled in HS... no, i just had my ass handed to me for 4-5 years early on by really good ones.

fate.
12/27/12 10:49 AM
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PayItForward
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judo is great, by the way....

i did a week stint at Jason Morris' during a camp w/ folks from around the country and other countries (germany for one)...

i had really good time and learned a lot just from sparring them. rule one... shoot before they grip ;)
12/27/12 1:33 PM
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aaronlapoi
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PayItForward - high level wrestling with boxing mixed in.

no can defend in the real world.

Wrestling is also a great self-defense, but this is why I give the nod to judo.

1. A lot of self-defense situations in which running is not an option involve a victim being grabbed/clinched from all different angles, sometimes from behind.

2. A lot of judo throws don't require that you go to the ground with your opponent. In fact, the judokas main objective is to throw, not to go to the ground. Going to the ground is an option, but not a mandate.

3. Many elite judokas are still dangerous as f%ck well into their 50s, even 60s. Maybe this is true with wrestlers too, I don't know.


12/27/12 4:53 PM
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shen
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Edited: 12/27/12 4:56 PM
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Don't get me wrong --I think Judo is great-- but what if a big guy came and just bear hugged a Judo expert really hard? The Judo guy would be pretty much "stuck", no?
12/27/12 8:00 PM
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mrgoodarmbar
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I've heard that if different styles matched up, bjj might do alright.
12/27/12 8:03 PM
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meatrokket
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mrgoodarmbar - I've heard that if different styles matched up, bjj might do alright.
Nah, bjj doesn't account for multiple attackers and lava spewing out of asphalt. Phone Post
12/27/12 8:17 PM
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Hoffa
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I loved judo, but of all the I've trained, it was the hardest on my body. I wish my knees and shoulders could still take it. I also found it very effective for self defense.
12/27/12 8:18 PM
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aaronlapoi
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mrgoodarmbar - I've heard that if different styles matched up, bjj might do alright.

True, but I'm not talking about style vs. style, but rather best style for self-defense. Although I love BJJ, I honestly think high-level judo trumps high-level BJJ as a self-defense.
12/27/12 8:19 PM
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PayItForward
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mrgoodarmbar - I've heard that if different styles matched up, bjj might do alright.

sorry man... multiple opponents and can't run away? better have some hands on you and wrestling/judo...

bjj, ON ITS OWN, is shit for multiple attackers...
12/27/12 8:31 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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I think that BJJ, judo, and wrestling all have a lot to offer in terms of self defense and that the "best" argument is probably detrimental.

I also think that the one skill that every BJJ'er could add to their arsenal to improve both their street and sport readiness is throwing. If do right, it's a fight finisher. Twice I've tossed guys and landed on them and felt their ribs pop off like firecrackers.

But look at the old Gracie promotional film (with Mehdi) or Carlson's vale-tudo fights; they are judo flipping the F@%K out of each other.
12/27/12 8:44 PM
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truehonor
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I know three judokas that ended a physical altercation with a throw. Other guy lands with a thud and they didn't/couldn't continue what ever they thought they were going to do. These were not double or single-leg wrestling takedowns, but swift, shirt-yanking judo throws, like they normally practice in the gym. One guy actually intervened in a machete attack, disarmed the guy, threw him and controlled him until the police arrived. Local media even covered that incident. These were all pre-Gracie Combatives; judoka that had no knowledge of the "Slices" in GJJ - they just employed whate ever self defense and control tacis hey learned in judo, coupled with a hard, nasty throw.
12/27/12 8:51 PM
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truehonor
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Just saw the video. You throw someone in a fight like that, all your going to hear is the other guy say "Awww $h!!!!T, Ahwww!! FUUUU...!!! (probobly while holding his arm or head or hip at that point) )you know the rest. There will be no "Fight".
12/28/12 6:14 AM
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Spartan79
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As others have said Judo is great! But very taxing on the body. Best to learn these skills when young. ;-) Phone Post
12/28/12 7:00 AM
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Shemhazai
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IMO the styles that teach an effective clinch are the best for self defense. It's not really true that every street fight ends up on the ground, but you can be damn sure that they all end up in some sort of clinch pretty fast.

What's so great about judo for self defense, as opposed to, say, freestyle or folkstyle wrestling, is the upright posture. This is much more realistic for fighting. Greco also has this advantage. The way I see it, the perfect blend for overall self defense ability would be judo + some greco (so you can dominate in the clinch regardless of gi grips) and modern muay thai (with integrated Western boxing).
12/28/12 7:37 AM
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kingabiu
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyyrpjm49hA

really great Gracie-breakdown video about self-defense and multiple attackers. heaps of ideas are covered, but, at 36 minutes he agrees with Aaron Lapoi's reasoning: in multiple-attacker situation you want to throw them to the ground, with a very quick limb-break and disengagement getting back to your feet.
12/28/12 8:38 AM
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Hywel Teague
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Judo is a street fight... Can be good and bad IMO.

The good: a university judo club I trained at years ago, we went for a drink after class. Some of the guys were getting cash from an ATM and some drunk dudes started picking on this geeky foreign exchange kid. One of them grabs him and winds up a punch, the geek hit him with ippon seio nage and soccer kicked him in the face in about 0.3 seconds. Fight over.

The bad: I got jumped by a large group (8 or so) of drunk teenagers a few years ago. One blind sided me as I was pushing my bike thru a park. They rushed me and I instinctively grabbed the first one coming at me and threw him with a pretty good uchi mata. Then one of the others broke my jaw with my bike lock.

So yeah, good and bad. Phone Post
12/28/12 2:14 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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That's f'd up that people are like that HT, but having been mobbed myself, I would say that the problem was you were outnumbered, not the judo. You were just trying to survive. JMO, you were there and I wasn't.
12/28/12 3:21 PM
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krept
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Well, when Rickson was living in Pacific Palisades or wherever, his answer to multiple attackers was the .45 ACP technique... specifically from the art of SIG P220 (this was from a friend and also from Doc Oxnard of the Ferg Follies fame, by the way)

With the multiple attacker gig, the grapplers always get kicked or punched and the strikers always get tackled. It seems as if there is always a continuum though... like paper, rocks & scissors... "scissors are the best!"

BTW, as a kid, this was one of my earliest memories of Judo ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJluFWZ6mso (around 3:00 mark.)
12/28/12 5:18 PM
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Team Python
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I just can't believe that there are still BJJ schools out there not teaching takedowns or throws. I mean what is so hard to teach Osoto-gari, Ouchi-gari O-Goshi, Koshi-Guruma and Sumi-gaeshi.
12/29/12 5:26 AM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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Team Python - I just can't believe that there are still BJJ schools out there not teaching takedowns or throws. I mean what is so hard to teach Osoto-gari, Ouchi-gari O-Goshi, Koshi-Guruma and Sumi-gaeshi.

IMHO it's not just teaching the throws that is important, but the entries to the clinch for those throws. Without the proper structure, odds are increased eating a punch and getting more damage or KO'd
12/29/12 1:49 PM
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Team Python
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Sgt. Slaphead - 
Team Python - I just can't believe that there are still BJJ schools out there not teaching takedowns or throws. I mean what is so hard to teach Osoto-gari, Ouchi-gari O-Goshi, Koshi-Guruma and Sumi-gaeshi.

IMHO it's not just teaching the throws that is important, but the entries to the clinch for those throws. Without the proper structure, odds are increased eating a punch and getting more damage or KO'd

100% correct...learning to close the distance to set up the clinch without receiving punches to the face is important and something also not taught at a lot of BJJ schools.
12/30/12 4:07 PM
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nowaydo
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2 x world champ

2 x bronze medalist in the last two Olympics

Difficult to believe that someone at his weight is better.

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