UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> What does Cain's diet look like?


1/1/13 3:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BshMstr
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/09
Posts: 1207
^for those that think the decreased weight won't decrease his punching power, look how often HW's KO each other, vs other wieght divisions.... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1348137-ufc-numbers-do-the-lighter-weight-classes-finish-fights

-as far as the gain in speed, it's not like Cain carries a lot of fat in his limbs...it's mainly his midsection. if he was a sprinter, then i would say it could make him faster at running, but as a fighter, i don't really see it....
1/1/13 3:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rosario00
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/2/11
Posts: 3999
orcus -
notsometourist - 

The reason Cain doesn't get shredded because shredded in fighting isn't good. To have and overly defined musculature causes problems in long-form athletes. Football players, for example, are short burst athletes. They play for 4-12 seconds at a time. Having the muscles that they have is great for explosiveness. But it isn't built to last. Fighters on the other hand have to use all of their muscles for 5 minutes at a time, 3-5 times. To have an extreme build doesn't serve a good purpose in that regard as muscles need oxygen, the more muscular, the more oxygen needed, the more tired you become. JDS got way more muscled for this fight, and due to that, when he got rocked, he couldn't recover as well. He couldn't bring in enough oxygen to feed his muscles AND recover. Cain on the other hand is a little on the softer side, his muscles don't require as much oxygen, it's the reason his cardio is so good. Think of all the guys with extreme cardio and they all have the same look. Frankie Edgar, The Diaz brothers, Renan Barao. A big muscular physique is just not suitable for sports like MMA and boxing.


No one is saying Cain should put on muscle until he looks like Jeff Monson. They're saying they don't know why he doesn't lose 10-15lb of fat.

By the way, none of the guys you listed look anything like Cain and are certainly not lacking muscle.

Barao

Edgar

 

And then there are guys known for having among the best if not THE best cardio and workrates in the sport who are "shredded" and often very muscular in addition, like Benson Henderson, GSP, Carlos Condit, Urijah Faber, Sean Sherk, Randy Couture, Forrest Griffin, etc. 

Exactly the whole point of this thread Phone Post
1/1/13 3:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
helpme
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/11/12
Posts: 48
BshMstr - 
Steve4192 - 
Im a real boy - His physique is a reflection of an unhealthy diet. People here defending it is stupid. It's a simple question of how he eats, because obviously it doesn't effect his fighting negatively, but it is weird someone who is billed as a "cardio machine" can have such a high body fat percentage.

 

Why would it surprise you that a guy who is a 'cardio machine' is not super muscular?

 

 

Muscle needs oxygen, which saps your cardio.  Fat doesn't need anything.  It's just reserve energy storage and cushioning.  Go take a look at the physiques of marathon runners.  Most of them are don't have rippling abs or shredded deltoids.  What little muscle they do have is often covered in a layer of fat, because less muscle and more fat = less energy expenditure and more energy reserves. 

 

Cain looks EXACTLY like what a 'cardio machine' should look like.


yup.

a couple more things...

-the extra weight does help in striking power....see Roy Nelson. these guys prolly train at least 4 hours a day....if they thought they needed to drop some pounds to perform better, it prolly wouldn't take too much effort.

-look at Nick Diaz....he's lean and obviously very fit, but he's not "cut" or "chiseled".... MMA athletes need very well developed aerobic AND anaerobic energy systems. bodybuilder-esque muscle simply doesn't matter, except for getting chicks and sponsors.

Flab in your belly does not help in striking power, no one is saying Cain should pack more muscle

Just that if he drops the fat he'd probably be better since he wouldn't have a vest of useless weight around him.

And if that doesn't make him better he could go back to his normal form easily.

1/1/13 4:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MdGeist
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/10/12
Posts: 1292
orcus - 

By the way I think the fat probably does serve some purpose. I assume that as with Fedor, Cain thinks carrying extra weight gives him more weight to put into his punches and gives him more weight to lean on guys or smother them with, and make it harder for him to be muscled around himself. These guys are not lazy, they must feel there is some advantage or I assume they'd take care of it.


This.

Having a ripped body is not a sign of superior cardio-vascular endurance. Lung capacity and the health of your heart are the determining factors of your endurance but are not visible.

From experience, I weigh around 200 but about a year ago, I dieted and dropped to 178lbs. to compete at 81kg in Judo. But I litterally got thrown around like a rag-doll at that weight at practice and competition. I just didn't have the same kind of power that I had at 90kg, being able to throw my weight around and to drop my center of gravity to defend against attacks provided a major advantage when it came to throws and takedowns.

Some people are just built that way while others get a boost to their stength and stamina buy cutting weight. I believe Cain and many other small HWs benefit from that little bit of extra weight that they can throw around to compete against physically bigger guys.

1/1/13 4:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BshMstr
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/09
Posts: 1208
helpme - 
BshMstr - 
Steve4192 - 
Im a real boy - His physique is a reflection of an unhealthy diet. People here defending it is stupid. It's a simple question of how he eats, because obviously it doesn't effect his fighting negatively, but it is weird someone who is billed as a "cardio machine" can have such a high body fat percentage.

 

Why would it surprise you that a guy who is a 'cardio machine' is not super muscular?

 

 

Muscle needs oxygen, which saps your cardio.  Fat doesn't need anything.  It's just reserve energy storage and cushioning.  Go take a look at the physiques of marathon runners.  Most of them are don't have rippling abs or shredded deltoids.  What little muscle they do have is often covered in a layer of fat, because less muscle and more fat = less energy expenditure and more energy reserves. 

 

Cain looks EXACTLY like what a 'cardio machine' should look like.


yup.

a couple more things...

-the extra weight does help in striking power....see Roy Nelson. these guys prolly train at least 4 hours a day....if they thought they needed to drop some pounds to perform better, it prolly wouldn't take too much effort.

-look at Nick Diaz....he's lean and obviously very fit, but he's not "cut" or "chiseled".... MMA athletes need very well developed aerobic AND anaerobic energy systems. bodybuilder-esque muscle simply doesn't matter, except for getting chicks and sponsors.

Flab in your belly does not help in striking power, no one is saying Cain should pack more muscle

Just that if he drops the fat he'd probably be better since he wouldn't have a vest of useless weight around him.

And if that doesn't make him better he could go back to his normal form easily.


.....i know this is hard to prove in either case, but seriously, look at guys like Big Country and Cain. if they thought it would matter, i'm sure they'd drop the weight....


i find it amusing that so many people here know so much more about this the guys that are fighting at the highest level, and successfully, i might add.
1/1/13 5:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lester Loveshaft
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/12/12
Posts: 4
CheckinHose -  His diet consists of American Wrestlers, Black Kickboxers and Brazilians Blood Phone Post

Cain is an American wrestler.
1/1/13 5:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75173

".....i know this is hard to prove in either case, but seriously, look at guys like Big Country and Cain. if they thought it would matter, i'm sure they'd drop the weight....i find it amusing that so many people here know so much more about this the guys that are fighting at the highest level, and successfully, i might add."

 

I certainly wouldn't use Roy Nelson as an example; he doesn't seem to take his training all that seriously in many ways. If he got rid of the ridiculous amount of fat he's carrying he could fight at 205 with much better cardio and probably more speed, and what would he be giving up? Maybe a bit of power.

1/1/13 7:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BshMstr
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/09
Posts: 1209
orcus - 

".....i know this is hard to prove in either case, but seriously, look at guys like Big Country and Cain. if they thought it would matter, i'm sure they'd drop the weight....i find it amusing that so many people here know so much more about this the guys that are fighting at the highest level, and successfully, i might add."

 

I certainly wouldn't use Roy Nelson as an example; he doesn't seem to take his training all that seriously in many ways. If he got rid of the ridiculous amount of fat he's carrying he could fight at 205 with much better cardio and probably more speed, and what would he be giving up? Maybe a bit of power.


how do you know he doesn't take training seriously? he's 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with JDS, 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Mir, and 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Werdum.

he clearly has cardio, and has enough speed and power to KO plenty of other HW's...


again, this argument is pretty silly.


too bad guys like Cain and Nelson have their weight holding them back ;)
1/1/13 8:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cycklops
295 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/26/03
Posts: 23376
AresSmashedPrahjuhdee - 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X23HzctB8qc/S83oMyx3gKI/AAAAAAAAB6w/ECrzcVG3efg/s1600/nata05.jpg


Just had a great conversation with a friend that lived in Mexico for a bit. He told me about how some places will take plates, put plastic bags over them, serve the food on the plastic bags, then when they're done and turn in the plates theyslide the plate out of the bag. voila. now there's a pic proving it

1/1/13 10:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ
33 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/20/02
Posts: 7501
Whatever he is eating is working Phone Post
1/1/13 10:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bisping decisioned my SN
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/7/11
Posts: 1126
Kostakio -
gooddoc -

That looks fucking good. Phone Post
My thoughts as well I would tear that shit up! Phone Post
1/1/13 10:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hypoxia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/30/08
Posts: 550
Native blood is prone to fat storage. We have Indian blood.
Plus he always wrestled above his weight class.
If your strong and fast enough, bigger wrestlers can be blitzkrieged by those type of wrestlers.
It seems like this tactic has carried over quite applicably in his fight career.
1/1/13 11:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hypoxia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/02/13 12:52 AM
Member Since: 6/30/08
Posts: 551
I might add that I would probably get ignored alot if I didn't have a shredded abs pic on POF. How'd I get it? Muay Thai, whey protein and frijoles con muthahfucking arroz. <br />True and cool story.
1/1/13 11:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rundymc
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/16/10
Posts: 356
orcus - 
Steve4192 - 
PoundforPound - That's an interesting theory. More fat = more stamina.

Roy Nelson is a bit of a cardio machine too isn't he?

 

Obviously, there is a point of diminishing returns where lugging around the extra body mass saps your cardio, but a moderate layer of fat does not impede performance.  There is no reason for a HW who weighs well under 265 to get shredded. 

 

 

Would a guy do better in a fight in terms of speed, cardio, etc, if he were wearing a 10lb weight vest or if he took the vest off? How would carrying an extra 10lb of fat be different? edit: digitdigit beat me to it

 

"Go take a look at the physiques of marathon runners"

 

 

I must be missing all the fat?

 


Do you train? Have you tried dropping weight?

It's not as simple as taking off a 10lb vest.
Fat supports joints, helps your leverages (powerlifters tend to have an extra layer to help their lifts for e.g). It also modifies your C.G.
Not to mention, losing those 10lbs would mean a change in diet (obviously), and it might hurt his performance in practice via lack of energy or via the psychological aspects of dieting.

Long and short of it is, this isn't a beauty pageant, the fat can be functional. It's not just "sand in the trunk" to quote Rippetoe.
1/2/13 12:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/02/13 1:42 AM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75180

"how do you know he doesn't take training seriously? he's 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with JDS, 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Mir, and 1 of 3 guys to go the distance with Werdum. he clearly has cardio, and has enough speed and power to KO plenty of other HW's..."

He lasted in those fights because he can take a beating like no other. He got his ass absolutely brutally kicked in every one of those and if he had the cardio maybe he could have had the gas to land his one big punch which is pretty much the only way he's won any fights in the UFC. I say he doesn't take his training as seriously as he might because he is carrying 50lb of useless fat and his in-fight options seem to boil down to "hope I can land one big punch, otherwise get beaten to a living death for 15 minutes".

"It's not as simple as taking off a 10lb vest."

No one said it's that simple. The analogy was a counter to your statement that carrying a moderate layer of fat doesn't impede performance.

"-as far as the gain in speed, it's not like Cain carries a lot of fat in his limbs...it's mainly his midsection. if he was a sprinter, then i would say it could make him faster at running, but as a fighter, i don't really see it...."

Next time you spar, put 10-20lb in a fanny pack or a backpack worn backwards and see how it goes.

"Long and short of it is, this isn't a beauty pageant, the fat can be functional."

Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off. So given that fact, combined with the money these guys make and the coaches and nutritionists they pay to work for them, I have to assume that in general excess fat isn't considered to be especially functional in MMA. And even the exceptions who aren't as ripped typically appeared to be at their best when they had less fat (Fedor, Penn, Nogueira, Shogun, etc).

1/2/13 1:52 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hellride
155 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/23/11
Posts: 4017
Yeah who cares really. He is 30 lbs lighter than the most ripped HW ever and he still destroyed him. Whatever he is doing it's working.

On one of the countdown shows AKA went to a mexican restaurant and his teammate fitch maybe? asked him how he could eat that stuff, and Cain said This is how I always eat. He was firing down tacos and other delicious mexican items with pleasure.

Mexican food is some of the most healthy you can eat if you pick the right stuff. Grilled chicken/steak, pintos, fresh veggies, tortillas.. nothing too bad in there as long as you stay away from the refried.
1/2/13 5:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
92 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21542
"Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same
1/2/13 5:52 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bromovich
470 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/12
Posts: 2215
Bisping decisioned my SN -
Kostakio -
gooddoc -

That looks fucking good. Phone Post
My thoughts as well I would tear that shit up! Phone Post
. Phone Post
1/2/13 12:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ShaqNoob
88 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/6/09
Posts: 5363
Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same
I remember this video. Phone Post
1/2/13 1:01 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75189
Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same

You said the difference is that aside from cutting water he has to diet, isn't that what we're talking about? Anderson seems to have less fat in his 185 fights than his 205 fights, and I think he performs better like that (can't really say much about cardio since his 205 fights have been over so quickly). 

 I don't really understand your post.

1/2/13 1:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
c21groundnpound
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/17/05
Posts: 408
Mexico also has one of the top soccer teams in the world as they won the Gold Cup in Olympics..

Chicharito Hernandez is one of best players in World and is tearing it up at Man U ..

Rafa Marquez was a stallworth for years on Barcelona ..

none were ripped or defined..

just not in the genes.. but the trait passed down that is more crucial than any other is Heart and Machismo ..
1/2/13 1:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
92 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21543
orcus - 
Gokudamus stole my name - "Well, the vast majority of top fighters are carrying very little fat, especially the ones known for cardio and being able to go 5 rounds without slacking off."

The vast majority of them have to make weight wich is partially the reason they are jacked. By your logic Anderson at 185 is faster and has better cardio than at 205 because he has more muscle definition when the only difference is that he has to diet and cut water to make 185, everything else is the same

You said the difference is that aside from cutting water he has to diet, isn't that what we're talking about? Anderson seems to have less fat in his 185 fights than his 205 fights, and I think he performs better like that (can't really say much about cardio since his 205 fights have been over so quickly). 

 I don't really understand your post.


I was responding to your correlation = causation argument. Just because the majority of top fighters with great cardio happen to be jacked doesnt mean all jacked fighters have great cardio

They are jacked because they have to make weight, Cain is not jacked because he doesnt need to make weight. How they look has nothing to do with how they perform in competition

And so far nobody has added a single credible argument why a guy should cut calories in a grueling sport when he is obviously performing at the level he needs to.



1/2/13 2:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
88samurai88
255 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/24/12
Posts: 258
Can someone Romo 2 tacos with JDS's face inside..lol Phone Post
1/2/13 2:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/02/13 3:15 PM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75190

"I was responding to your correlation = causation argument. Just because the majority of top fighters with great cardio happen to be jacked doesnt mean all jacked fighters have great cardio . They are jacked because they have to make weight,"

Every non-HW has to make weight and there are plenty of less jacked fighters among them. They just don't tend to be the ones singled out for having exceptional cardio. Two of the fighters with the best cardio in the sport -- Guida and Edgar -- claim to cut little or no weight and are still very lean.

What about the fighters who clearly perform better and have more gas the leaner they are? Like BJ Penn, for example. All else being equal, won't more conditioning training result in both better conditioning and a leaner physique?

"And so far nobody has added a single credible argument why a guy should cut calories in a grueling sport when he is obviously performing at the level he needs to."

I thought the credible argument was that logically extra weight HAS to slow you down and tire you out more. Good cardio and speed with fat = better cardio and speed without the fat, simply because you have to move less (dead) weight.

Cain was visibly quite gassed from the middle of the first round on. Yes, he did what he had to do, but he probably could have ended the fight, or at least avoided a lot of risk by being more successful with takedowns, if he were able to maintain his pace better.

1/2/13 3:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Archer0545
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/3/07
Posts: 13532
Idk about the rest of his diet but he had JDS for lunch! Phone Post

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.