UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> What does Cain's diet look like?


1/3/13 9:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ministry of Truth
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/10/05
Posts: 31736
rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing? Phone Post

Perhaps you should learn more about genetics. His incredible cardio is a genetic gift, just as his body is a reflective of his genetics as well.

Look at someone like Cole Konrad. He was a great wrestler and fighter, with great conditioning as well, yet nothing could change his physique.
1/3/13 9:17 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BadrMilk
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/08
Posts: 11881
Ministry of Truth -
rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing? Phone Post

Perhaps you should learn more about genetics. His incredible cardio is a genetic gift, just as his body is a reflective of his genetics as well.

Look at someone like Cole Konrad. He was a great wrestler and fighter, with great conditioning as well, yet nothing could change his physique.
Also look at Baroni, great physique but gasses walking his dog. Phone Post
1/3/13 9:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NeoSpartan
490 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/9/09
Posts: 10056
I heard he eats his opponents for breakfast

Sparring partners for Lunch

and Shit talking 'fans' for dinner
1/3/13 9:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ministry of Truth
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/10/05
Posts: 31739
BadrMilk - 
Ministry of Truth -
rosario00 -  For someone as conditioned and hard working as him to have so much flab its only obvious that he isn't eating well.. I know the role that genetics play in how shredded you can get, but that doesn't mean he can't at least have a flat stomach. What is he doing? Phone Post

Perhaps you should learn more about genetics. His incredible cardio is a genetic gift, just as his body is a reflective of his genetics as well.

Look at someone like Cole Konrad. He was a great wrestler and fighter, with great conditioning as well, yet nothing could change his physique.
Also look at Baroni, great physique but gasses walking his dog. Phone Post

Exactly. Some people will never have the physique of Baroni, or the cardiovascular fitness of Cain.
1/3/13 9:45 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dc1000
52 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/19/06
Posts: 4708
thread is useless w/o pics
1/3/13 9:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Randy Watson
20 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/19/12
Posts: 21
It is just not in his physiology. Not everyone can look like Bendo, GSP etc... Regardless of how much they train or what they eat.
1/3/13 11:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75198

" I agree with you that Cain SHOULD look leaner, but he's not, be it his genetics or diet or both, and he has little reason to change that since it's been working for him thus far."

Everything works until it doesn't. Why wait until it doesn't? If JDS had KHTFO in one of the last two rounds when Cain's takedowns were sloppy failures, would anyone think Cain with a bit more speed and gas would have been a good idea?

"Cain and JDS were HWs fighting at a LW pace."

Not even close. It wasn't even as good a pace as Cormier vs Barnett or Barnett vs Nogueira. Technique went completely out the window for both guys in the second round and stayed gone, with both guys wheezing through their mouths. Compare that to something like Benson vs Pettis or Benson vs Edgar or GSP vs Fitch or many many other fights.

"And no, fat isn't always dead weight. As an example, if you are on top in the turtle position with an over-under, would you use more or less energy holding your opponent down the more fat you had?"

If it's not helping you move, it's dead. I agree with you that it can be functional as well; I said in an earlier post that I think it can help put more weight into punches, into smothering guys, and make it harder to be muscled around. But that doesn't change my thinking that it logically HAS to hurt cardio and speed.

 

1/3/13 12:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
111 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21544
"I thought the credible argument was that logically extra weight HAS to slow you down and tire you out more. Good cardio and speed with fat = better cardio and speed without the fat, simply because you have to move less (dead) weight."

Is he a sprinter? Or a marathon runner? MMA consists of more than speed/cardio, he also requires a lot of power/strength, especially as a HW.

Having extra fat actually helps with moving more weight, thats why all the HW olympic lifters are chubby bastards while the smaller guys are all jacked.


"Cain was visibly quite gassed from the middle of the first round on. Yes, he did what he had to do, but he probably could have ended the fight, or at least avoided a lot of risk by being more successful with takedowns, if he were able to maintain his pace better."

Again this is not a running sport where the objective is to be as fast as possible, you also need to take into account that while being 20 pounds lighter might help his cardio, it will also lower his strength wich is also fairly important when he is trying to move a 240 pound guy around.

And regardless of how "visibly gassed" you think he was, he was still in much better shape than a lean muscular Junior Dos Santos who was huffing and puffing even before he got whacked by that overhand
1/3/13 1:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/03/13 1:21 PM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75203

"Is he a sprinter? Or a marathon runner? MMA consists of more than speed/cardio, he also requires a lot of power/strength, especially as a HW."

As I said, there are tradeoffs for sure. 

"Having extra fat actually helps with moving more weight, thats why all the HW olympic lifters are chubby bastards while the smaller guys are all jacked."

Is it that the fat actively helps them, or that watching their diets would restrict maximal muscle/strength growth? Their goal is to lift the most weight possible, so they want to build as much muscle as possible -- and you can't do that while worrying about being lean. And since they don't need to move their own bodyweight or worry about cardio, why should they? They literally don't have to worry about anything but moving a barbell. If gaining 60lb, much of it fat but some of it muscle, lets you lift an extra kilo, why not go for it? It could be the difference between first and second place.

Would Cain minus 10-15lb of fat -- but retaining all his muscle -- really have less strength than current Cain? He's obviously not on some growth program and maxing out his muscle.

"And regardless of how "visibly gassed" you think he was, he was still in much better shape than a lean muscular Junior Dos Santos who was huffing and puffing even before he got whacked by that overhand"

I'm not saying he has bad cardio, although it did not look great in that specific fight. I'm saying carrying extra fat is not doing anyone any favors in terms of cardio and speed, that's it. As for it not being a footrace, no, but Cain is routinely fighting larger, stronger, harder-hitting guys, and speed is almost always the best answer in that situation (see: Frankie Edgar). I don't see his 15lb of fat helping him contest strength in a tie-up with Overeem, but having more speed and better cardio certainly could.

1/3/13 8:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PoundforPound
165 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/03/13 8:29 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 27297
hypoxia - I might add that I would probably get ignored alot if I didn't have a shredded abs pic on POF. How'd I get it? Muay Thai, whey protein and frijoles con muthahfucking arroz.

True and cool story.


Did you seriously get lean eating beans and rice?
1/4/13 12:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rundymc
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/16/10
Posts: 363
orcus - 

" I agree with you that Cain SHOULD look leaner, but he's not, be it his genetics or diet or both, and he has little reason to change that since it's been working for him thus far."

Everything works until it doesn't. Why wait until it doesn't? If JDS had KHTFO in one of the last two rounds when Cain's takedowns were sloppy failures, would anyone think Cain with a bit more speed and gas would have been a good idea?

"Cain and JDS were HWs fighting at a LW pace."

Not even close. It wasn't even as good a pace as Cormier vs Barnett or Barnett vs Nogueira. Technique went completely out the window for both guys in the second round and stayed gone, with both guys wheezing through their mouths. Compare that to something like Benson vs Pettis or Benson vs Edgar or GSP vs Fitch or many many other fights.

"And no, fat isn't always dead weight. As an example, if you are on top in the turtle position with an over-under, would you use more or less energy holding your opponent down the more fat you had?"

If it's not helping you move, it's dead. I agree with you that it can be functional as well; I said in an earlier post that I think it can help put more weight into punches, into smothering guys, and make it harder to be muscled around. But that doesn't change my thinking that it logically HAS to hurt cardio and speed.

 


We'll have to disagree about the pace thing. All the wheezing aside (come on dude, they're HWs, give em a break, lol), I thought it was pretty well paced. I'm a 170lb'er and I'd gas grappling like that, let alone fighting. Either way...

"Everything works until it doesn't. Why wait until it doesn't?"
Because fixing it might break it. Losing the fat might come with muscle and strength reductions. It might make him too small for HW. It might negatively impact his energy levels in training during the weight loss, or indefinitely if he requires a lifestyle change. If he gained muscle, he'd have to worry about changing his pacing, and, IME, it affects your technique and requires some adaptation.
Thus far, Cain has the best cardio at HW, and is pushing a pace you don't see often at HW in combat sports. This past weekend was the first time he slowed down and it only started to get noticeable midway through the second.

"But that doesn't change my thinking that it logically HAS to hurt cardio and speed"
Disagree again (on the cardio part), as my example was meant to demonstrate. It HAS to hurt your cardio when the extra weight never helps. This would be the case with a sprinter/runner for instance.
To go to extremes, let's look at the flipside of all that with sumo-wrestling. Those guys are big, strong, but fat-fucks, and they are fat-fucks for a reason... it helps when you're trying to muscle someone out of a circle. I think we can both agree there are many occasions in an MMA contest when "dead weight" can also be "functional weight", and in fact, SAVE energy.
Obviously this is not to say I'm advocating HWs turn into fat-fucks like Roy Nelson, but having a bit of flab is not inherently bad.

There's a reason high level fighters in MMA, boxing, kickboxing etc. don't always look like cover models. As athletes they care about one thing: performance. On that note, Cain and his coaches are not idiots. They have looked at his performance in the gym and the cage, and likely have weighed the pros and possible cons of losing the flab.
1/4/13 1:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rundymc
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/16/10
Posts: 364
orcus - 

"Is he a sprinter? Or a marathon runner? MMA consists of more than speed/cardio, he also requires a lot of power/strength, especially as a HW."

As I said, there are tradeoffs for sure. 

"Having extra fat actually helps with moving more weight, thats why all the HW olympic lifters are chubby bastards while the smaller guys are all jacked."

Is it that the fat actively helps them, or that watching their diets would restrict maximal muscle/strength growth? Their goal is to lift the most weight possible, so they want to build as much muscle as possible -- and you can't do that while worrying about being lean. And since they don't need to move their own bodyweight or worry about cardio, why should they? They literally don't have to worry about anything but moving a barbell. If gaining 60lb, much of it fat but some of it muscle, lets you lift an extra kilo, why not go for it? It could be the difference between first and second place.

Would Cain minus 10-15lb of fat -- but retaining all his muscle -- really have less strength than current Cain? He's obviously not on some growth program and maxing out his muscle.

"And regardless of how "visibly gassed" you think he was, he was still in much better shape than a lean muscular Junior Dos Santos who was huffing and puffing even before he got whacked by that overhand"

I'm not saying he has bad cardio, although it did not look great in that specific fight. I'm saying carrying extra fat is not doing anyone any favors in terms of cardio and speed, that's it. As for it not being a footrace, no, but Cain is routinely fighting larger, stronger, harder-hitting guys, and speed is almost always the best answer in that situation (see: Frankie Edgar). I don't see his 15lb of fat helping him contest strength in a tie-up with Overeem, but having more speed and better cardio certainly could.


On the oly-lifter thing:

My understanding is that yes, the fat actually helps your leverages. It's one of the reasons powerlifter, for instance, get a major bloat on the day of a contest. The fat and bloat cushions your joints apparently. From my limited lifting experience, I tend to squat and bench more with a bloat.

You are however right on the money with the 60lb-for-1kg comment.

Either way, the argument that fat would help strength probably doesn't apply to combat sports. Fighters aren't moving much weight and rarely in fixed motor patters. What we need to consider instead are energy levels associated with dieting.
1/4/13 1:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75216

Wouldn't the energy level be the same? Obviously any calories that are becoming fat are not being used for energy, he's got a surplus.

Eh, whatever, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think Cain is reading this anyway.

I'll just leave this study that has some interesting findings re: effect of bodyweight on strength and speed in Olympic lifts: http://sportivnypress.com/documents/71.html

1/4/13 7:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gokudamus stole my name
111 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21546
"Would Cain minus 10-15lb of fat -- but retaining all his muscle -- really have less strength than current Cain? He's obviously not on some growth program and maxing out his muscle."

It would be very hard for him to lose 15 pounds of fat and retain all his muscle mass on an MMA fighting schedule. Even bodybuilders use a massive amount of drugs to retain muscle as they diet. And they arent doing shit except lifting

And putting on muscle mass while burning an insane amount of calories (cardio, wrestling, bjj, sparring, weights) is incredibly hard so its impossible to say what his goal are in S&C, he might be increasing in all his lifts but not adding a lot of muscle because of the MMA training

Either way he is the HW champion and has arguably the best conditioning in his division. Im not exactly sure how anyone could claim there is something to fix, if so then the entire division needs to fix a lot more than Cain

1/4/13 11:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
300pndgrlla
9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/7/10
Posts: 375
Lester Loveshaft - 
CheckinHose -  His diet consists of American Wrestlers, Black Kickboxers and Brazilians Blood Phone Post

Cain is an American wrestler.

Yup...he's a cannibal!

1/4/13 8:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JBASS
242 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/14/12
Posts: 297

After this thread, I had to go buy stuff for tacos last night. And I'm doing it again tonight. 

 

Damn you UG and delicious mexican food pictures!!

1/5/13 1:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
334 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42659
Gokudamus stole my name - "I thought the credible argument was that logically extra weight HAS to slow you down and tire you out more. Good cardio and speed with fat = better cardio and speed without the fat, simply because you have to move less (dead) weight."

Is he a sprinter? Or a marathon runner? MMA consists of more than speed/cardio, he also requires a lot of power/strength, especially as a HW.

Having extra fat actually helps with moving more weight, thats why all the HW olympic lifters are chubby bastards while the smaller guys are all jacked.


"Cain was visibly quite gassed from the middle of the first round on. Yes, he did what he had to do, but he probably could have ended the fight, or at least avoided a lot of risk by being more successful with takedowns, if he were able to maintain his pace better."

Again this is not a running sport where the objective is to be as fast as possible, you also need to take into account that while being 20 pounds lighter might help his cardio, it will also lower his strength wich is also fairly important when he is trying to move a 240 pound guy around.

And regardless of how "visibly gassed" you think he was, he was still in much better shape than a lean muscular Junior Dos Santos who was huffing and puffing even before he got whacked by that overhand

Glad im not the only one who noticed the significant point of JDS seeming to be quite tired even before he got clocked....
1/5/13 6:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Karl Olsson
36 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/12
Posts: 31
Randy Watson - It is just not in his physiology. Not everyone can look like Bendo, GSP etc... Regardless of how much they train or what they eat.

This is simply not true, right? Anyone who goes on a calorie deficit diet will burn of the fat? Doesnt matter if you are mexican or eskimo or sri lankan..
1/5/13 8:22 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
39 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 409
HELWIG - 

Does anyone have a link to the Cain/JDS fight?


Dude, I have one but I can't message fighters. If you need it you're going to have to contact me.
1/5/13 10:15 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Rob San Soo
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/31/12
Posts: 13
Because he's not going for Mr Universe ;)
I render they ask Cain wait he thought about santos coming in looking bigger. All Cain said was, I guess he hit the gym lol Phone Post
1/10/13 12:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BshMstr
18 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/09
Posts: 1213
Rob San Soo -  Because he's not going for Mr Universe ;)
I render they ask Cain wait he thought about santos coming in looking bigger. All Cain said was, I guess he hit the gym lol Phone Post

LOL!


i'm amazed how long this argument kept going on....


many of these fighters are successful, despite not looking as lean and muscluar as their counterparts.... there's obviously a reason. to keep saying that they will be more successful if they dropped some bodyfat is pretty silly....

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.