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UnderGround Forums >> Jones tells Cerrone: "You don't make $1M to fight"


1/2/13 9:12 PM
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SickEyeDiaz
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Jones is the Axl Rose of MMA. All the talent in the world but a deplorable diva attitude to go with it.

1/2/13 9:13 PM
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tbi0904
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WoodenPupa - Fighters aren't allowed to weigh their circumstances from the point of view of making a living, investing in the future, and maximizing the value of the present like normal people.

The "professional" part of "professional fighter" is an invisible prefix for most people, who conceive fighters from the Roman emperor's POV. Fighters are expected to adhere to the "fight when you're told to" equation while upholding a TUF-spastic "anyone anytime anywhere" identity for good measure.

Failing to conform to that template suddenly makes the fighter a thinker, and as we all know, fighters shouldn't be thinking!

It's un-fighter-like to have a leverage calculator in your mind, one that protects your future. It's apparently also against the warrior spirit to insist on preparation, even though fights are announced months in advance.

Why is MMA called a "profession" or career in the first place? Isn't preparation a virtue of professionalism, and isn't performance mainly the result of it?

Comments from guys like Cerrone just indicate how hard it is to take their own profession seriously. As a result, their identity revolves around being a "fighter" who just lives to throw down. Well, if you choose MMA as a profession, you have no choice but to have that attitude or a similar one, since you won't have anything to show for your mangled face any time soon.

Really, we can't blame Cerrone for this attitude for just those reasons. It's just a shame that very few fighters reach the point where they have to make decisions about the greater of two goods, instead of the lesser of two evils.

Great post. Wasa-b as well.
1/2/13 9:27 PM
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spliff
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heres the video http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2110351&page=1

1/2/13 9:29 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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Unwariestpickle - 
Macedawgg - 

Jones is 100% correct--

The vast majority of criticism Jones receives is from fighters who haven't reached the pinnacle of the sport--

That's a shame--those so eager to push Jones into a short-notice fight may someday be in his position too.

Short sited.


He was already training for the fight. Almost any other fighter high level or not would have taken a replacement.

Anderson didn't agree with it and was willing to step up as well to save the event. I'm not positive but I think he's reached some sort of pinnacle of the sport.

1/2/13 9:29 PM
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Damaynevent
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I like Cerrone, but if he were as smart as JBJ he would have beat Nate Diaz and gotten his title shot by now. He's an emotional, smart-ass, know it all with a superiority complex. He can fight is ass off, but he's the last person I'd go to for career advice.

JBJ is the champ and I'm not sure if there is anyone else in the UFC with a brighter future. He was well within his rights to turn down that fight for the good of his career. Dana/Lorenzo/UFC only make decisions that are good for their business/brand, why shouldn't Jon?

1/2/13 9:29 PM
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AlphaMaleJP
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Sofa King Cool - I do not like what this sport is becoming sometimes. Phone Post
. Phone Post
1/2/13 9:31 PM
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kingkoopa
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Macedawgg -

Jones is 100% correct--

The vast majority of criticism Jones receives is from fighters who haven't reached the pinnacle of the sport--

That's a shame--those so eager to push Jones into a short-notice fight may someday be in his position too.

Short sited.

Jones vs Sonnen proves the sport is becoming wwe

As far as taking short notice fights: the sport has become so strategy heavy, that most fights are no longer fights. Its just 2 guys scared to lose. This is another thing bringing the sport down.

Short notice fights show heart and the true martial arts ability of the fighters. 2 guys in there with little strategy, just going at it with what there good at. Phone Post
1/2/13 9:36 PM
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SickEyeDiaz
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"As far as taking short notice fights: the sport has become so strategy heavy, that most fights are no longer fights. Its just 2 guys scared to lose. This is another thing bringing the sport down." 

vtfu

1/2/13 9:36 PM
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Headkick420
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Cerrone is the fucking man. Even if he never holds a belt in the UFC I will have more respect for him than I will ever have for JBJ.
1/2/13 9:43 PM
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time traveling 12er
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I know it's been awhile, but you guys do remember that the fight was short notice for Sonnen... not Jones right?
1/2/13 9:53 PM
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Lazer MMA
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DamnSevern - 
Macedawgg - 

Jones is 100% correct--

The vast majority of criticism Jones receives is from fighters who haven't reached the pinnacle of the sport--

That's a shame--those so eager to push Jones into a short-notice fight may someday be in his position too.

Short sited.


vtfu also



bunch of horse hockey pussy crap IMO Damn.

Take a SUPER EASY fight VS a guy that does not have a chance in hell and never even trained to save an event is not something to think twice about.

If anything you can say the young man was poorly advised. I concur with that.

1/2/13 9:57 PM
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Kimbos Bread
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Flyers179 - How could anyone be a fan of Jones (his personality). The guy comes across poorly 100% of the time.

This Phone Post
1/2/13 9:59 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Wasa-B - 
Tru - 

nhb/ufc used to be about fights.  now mma is a sport with pro athletes and its about money and a sport.

 

whjy is anyone suprised about jones' comments.  He is probably one of the best athletes I have ever seen in my life; but he is not a "fighter" IMO.  flame me, vote me down, i dont care..he is the lebron james of mma, more athletic and bigger/longer than anyone else.  not even fun to watch sometimes.


Im as old school as anyone here, I miss Pride but not everything about it. NHB/UFC also used to have guys who couldnt "figt" very well and came in out of shape and under-prepared.

Jones comes to "fight" every time. Just because he's not willing to risk a big set back in his career in a nothing to gain/everything to lose scenario on short notice doesnt mean he's not a "fighter." He's had one of the very best list of opposition of out any fighter over the last 2 years and been one of the most active of the champs/top fighters.

Are Machida and Shogun also not "fighters" since they turned Jones down on short notice?

There is nothing "not fighter'ish" about wanting proper time to prepare for your opponent so you will be fully prepared to "fight" come event time.

And Im super tired of the "more athletic and bigger/longer than anyone else" thing. It is dam fun to watch some as creative and as good as Jones in every facet of the game and to continue finishing guys. We've seen plenty of bigger and longer guys never come close to developing the game and that Jones has.


Troll post or just as ignorant as hell. JBJ HAD A FULL CAMP PERIOD. he was given an easier fight VS a guy who did not train and never won any big fight at LHW EVER.

WTF R U posting?!!
1/2/13 10:31 PM
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burner22
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Neil Funk - Why is Cerrone talking shit about a guy he'll never have to fight?


What part of the game is it where it's cool to run to the media and shit on your teammates?


Hey Cerrone, concentrate on your own fight career. Keep your mouth shut about a guy who has done nothing but whoop the shit out of anyone who has stepped in the cage with him.
I'm with ya bro Phone Post
1/2/13 10:49 PM
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Jmart760
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Humboldt -
Tru -

nhb/ufc used to be about fights.  now mma is a sport with pro athletes and its about money and a sport.

 

whjy is anyone suprised about jones' comments.  He is probably one of the best athletes I have ever seen in my life; but he is not a "fighter" IMO.  flame me, vote me down, i dont care..he is the lebron james of mma, more athletic and bigger/longer than anyone else.  not even fun to watch sometimes.

No vote downs, couldn't have said it better myself.

Good post Tru. Phone Post
What? You may not like Lebron, but you don't know shit about basketball if you think he dominates sheerly bc of his athleticism and size. Guys like that don't care about the grinding on the defensive end, but Lebron is an incredible defender. He's also a great leader on the court and is a student of the game. Ignore me if you want, but find some of Coach K's quotes about Lebron. He has effusively praised LBJ's intelligence and leadership. When someone does try to learn and does lead his men and makes the guys around him better, it's unfair to say he's only good bc he's athletic and bc of his size. Sorry for the rant. Phone Post
1/2/13 11:10 PM
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RPBJJ
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beanouno - If I made a million a fight I'd fight as much as I can. Phone Post
This.

JBJ is too stupid to realize that.
Amazing fighter, fake person. Phone Post
1/2/13 11:44 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 01/02/13 11:45 PM
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Lazer MMA - 
DamnSevern - 
Macedawgg - 

Jones is 100% correct--

The vast majority of criticism Jones receives is from fighters who haven't reached the pinnacle of the sport--

That's a shame--those so eager to push Jones into a short-notice fight may someday be in his position too.

Short sited.


vtfu also



bunch of horse hockey pussy crap IMO Damn.

Take a SUPER EASY fight VS a guy that does not have a chance in hell and never even trained to save an event is not something to think twice about.

If anything you can say the young man was poorly advised. I concur with that.
 

 

Yes, bunch of horse hockey crap. . .

 

This just happened in boxing--to Victor Ortiz. 

Ortiz's opponent was changed, last minute, to a lighter fighter moving up in weight, but it was such an easy W for Victor Ortiz. . .

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/sportingscene/2012/06/victor-ortiz-jaw.html

You think that had no impact on a career?  And Ortiz isn't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to marketing. 

Dana doesn't get the whole "brand" thing?  Really--his entire business is built on a brand. . . which is why even his own stars get attacked. . . can only be one of those. . .

 

1/3/13 12:13 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Submissable - 
WoodenPupa - "besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well."

Good point, and also I'm wondering which MMA champions have talked crap about Jones' decision. As far as I know, nobody who gets a PPV cut from their fights criticized him. I don't even think anybody who regularly gets 6-figures did, champ or not.

Talk crap? No. Criticize? Not really. But a champ did offer to fight on 8 days notice to save that card. Even offered to fight at a weight class above his. He gets 6 figures and a PPV cut.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/8299773/anderson-silva-offered-fight-salvage-ufc-151-manager-ed-soares-says


My point was about vocal criticism. Fighters offering to step up does not constitute a criticism on their part. To claim that they are is to equivocate.

In any event, Silva didn't "offer" to fight at 205; 205 was HIS stipulation. There was no negotiation possible there. And do you think this stipulation wasn't accompanied by others, that he didn't ask for more pay, and so forth?

Furthermore, do you think ANY top 5 LHW would have stepped up unless hugely compensated, to the point of (from Dana's POV) asking for unreasonable compensation? How many top 5 LHW's do you think were even contacted? If there were any, they obviously said no.

And those willing to fight Silva at 205, if any were even contacted, obviously weren't worthy---even less worthy than Bonnar IMO.
1/3/13 12:15 AM
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WoodenPupa
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shaqitup - Wouldn't making a million to fight actually be incentive to take the fight?

It would be incentive to seriously consider it, but what happens to his future value after a loss? This is the question. What it isn't arguable is that negotiating leverage goes down after a loss.
1/3/13 12:30 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Phisher - 
DamnSevern - 
KZTT_W85 -  A few guys at his gym have called him out on matters publicly.

Beginning to think he's not very popular amongst his peers Phone Post

besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well.


Diego's the only other one that I'd heard saying anything about Jones. He said also said that Jones should have fought Chael on short notice.

 

Like I wrote in the other thread. If the fact that Jones didn't take the fight offends their sensibilities so much, why are they still with Jackson/Winkeljohn? It was the coaching staff that advised Jones not to fight Sonnen.


The final decision rests with him though, so he's responsible for it. But you make a good point. He aligned himself with the calculative attitude, the kind of thinking that Cerrone and other supposedly "pure" fighters are criticizing.
1/3/13 12:39 AM
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SinCityHustler
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thatsme - 
WoodenPupa - "besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well."

Good point, and also I'm wondering which MMA champions have talked crap about Jones' decision. As far as I know, nobody who gets a PPV cut from their fights criticized him. I don't even think anybody who regularly gets 6-figures did, champ or not.

You correct in everything you just said. In fact, Machida and Rua both declined to fight Jones when Dana called them to replace Sonnen.

Guess what their reason was? Yep the same as Jones. But here we are six months later and the same morons are still condemning Jones for crap the two former Champions did the same week.

Not the same at all.  Machida and Rua declined to take a short notice,fight against the toughest fighter in the world at 205 lbs., a guy who had destroyed both of them in less than 5 combined rounds.  

Jones refused to fight a guy coming up from a lower weight class, that had no training camp, and has had little success in the UFC at 205 to speak of in his career.  

The same thing would be if Rua and Machida had turned down a fight against an Okami or Marquart type, who was going to have 8 days notice for the fight, while they on the other hand they were going to be 2 months into their camp.  

VERY different scenarios, but here 6 months later, "the same morons" still can't see this.  

1/3/13 12:47 AM
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WoodenPupa
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George Hill - Jones had nothing to risk at all.

If he had won, he moves on, makes his money.

If he had lost, they do an immediate rematch, he gets the biggest payday of his career.

He'd make way more losing, and you people think he'd make $30,000 if he lost to Chael.

If he makes $1 million for 450,000 buys, what do you think he makes for 950,000 that the rematch would do?

What if he lost the rematch as well? Yes, he makes money until the promoter won't pay him anymore. But at what point do you still call your efforts a career? After two, three losses, value plummets. God forbid that these losses are in a row.

A point that is possibly overlooked (I haven't scoured the threads on this issue since the show was canceled, so maybe somebody has mentioned it) is that Jones' career is vitally dependent on winning. Since everybody hates his personality, but not in the cartoonesque Chael way, he needs to win in order to sell PPV's. He can't supplement those sales with trash talk, charisma, or anything else. Dude NEEDS to win.

Does anybody contest this?
1/3/13 1:07 AM
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WoodenPupa
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SinCityHustler - 
thatsme - 
WoodenPupa - "besides cerrone, which teammates have said something? please show me sources as well."

Good point, and also I'm wondering which MMA champions have talked crap about Jones' decision. As far as I know, nobody who gets a PPV cut from their fights criticized him. I don't even think anybody who regularly gets 6-figures did, champ or not.

You correct in everything you just said. In fact, Machida and Rua both declined to fight Jones when Dana called them to replace Sonnen.

Guess what their reason was? Yep the same as Jones. But here we are six months later and the same morons are still condemning Jones for crap the two former Champions did the same week.

Not the same at all.  Machida and Rua declined to take a short notice,fight against the toughest fighter in the world at 205 lbs., a guy who had destroyed both of them in less than 5 combined rounds.  

Jones refused to fight a guy coming up from a lower weight class, that had no training camp, and has had little success in the UFC at 205 to speak of in his career.  

The same thing would be if Rua and Machida had turned down a fight against an Okami or Marquart type, who was going to have 8 days notice for the fight, while they on the other hand they were going to be 2 months into their camp.  

VERY different scenarios, but here 6 months later, "the same morons" still can't see this.  


So Jones was supposed to show his valiance and warrior spirit by fighting a guy who had little chance against him?

Cerrone's point, and the issue that sparked this thread, is that a "real" warrior never calculates consequences. He's asked to fight, whoever, whenever. That Machida and Rua turned the fight down based on Jones being "the toughest fighter in the world" should only add to Cerrone's point---they should, by that POV, have taken the fight the instant it was offered.

But instead Machida and Rua cited lack of notice and therefore preparation time. Do you think Chael sucks so bad that Jones needs NO preparation against him?

And what do say about the fact that Chael and Jones sell PPV's on VERY different premises, Chael's by spectacular trash talking and dramatic results (usually him losing), Jones by simply being a winner? Chael just has to put on a show; Jones has to WIN.
1/3/13 1:16 AM
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caseharts
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Cerrone ftw. Phone Post
1/3/13 1:25 AM
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George Hill
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Stupid points.

Jones has a long-term contract at a specified rate. Even if he loses the title, he's getting a cut of PPV as his base pay. If the PPV is bigger, his cut is bigger, whether he is champion or not.

Now, if he lost to Sonnen on a fight Sonnen was taking with no camp and Jones with a full camp, yes, he'd come back, make twice the money he made for the first fight.

But what if Sonnen beat him twice.

If Sonnen beats you twice, then you probably aren't going to last long as champion, are you, given he's now facing Sonnen with a full camp instead of coming off the couch.

If you credit Jones with being smart to back off the first fight, well, by that logic, he's a complete idiot for taking a fight against a tougher more in shape version of Sonnen, isn't he? Well, isn't he?

And if he's smart for taking the fight with Sonnen now, then inherently, he made a bad move turning it down when Sonnen wasn't in shape.

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