UnderGround Forums
 

S&C UnderGround >> Functional patterns


1/3/13 10:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 511
 
I have checked out this guy's you tube channel seems pretty interesting check him out let me know what you think? Its under functional patterns. Phone Post
1/3/13 10:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32251
?

What guy?
1/3/13 11:16 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ninjaplata
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/8/09
Posts: 191
Looks like fun, a good highlight reel goes a long way. Phone Post
1/4/13 12:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 512
Chocolate Shatner - ?

What guy?
http://m.youtube.com/#/user/functionalpatterns?&desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Ffunctionalpatterns

This guy Phone Post
1/4/13 2:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
149 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/04/13 2:20 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6400

I could not watch the video, however here are my thoughts on "Functional Training":

There is no skill transfer from a weight room exercise to a totally different athletic skill done in competition. The principle of specificity clearly states that for a positive transfer to occur, exactness in a number of factors must be present. The fact is, no weight room exercise exactly replicates any sport skill (other than the sports of weightlifting and power lifting). That is why one should practice his / her sport skills separately, then generally improve total-body weight room strength.

The development of muscular strength is the general progression of increasing the muscle’s ability to produce force. In other words, strength is a non-specific adaptation developed in the weight room whereas skills are a specific adaptation developed through guided practice. As a result, strength is developed physically in the weight room, which by a separate process is developed mechanically outside the weight room. Simply stated, you build muscle in the weight room and movement outside the weight room.

TAKU

1/4/13 6:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 514
Taku -

I could not watch the video, however here are my thoughts on "Functional Training":

There is no skill transfer from a weight room exercise to a totally different athletic skill done in competition. The principle of specificity clearly states that for a positive transfer to occur, exactness in a number of factors must be present. The fact is, no weight room exercise exactly replicates any sport skill (other than the sports of weightlifting and power lifting). That is why one should practice his / her sport skills separately, then generally improve total-body weight room strength.

The development of muscular strength is the general progression of increasing the muscle’s ability to produce force. In other words, strength is a non-specific adaptation developed in the weight room whereas skills are a specific adaptation developed through guided practice. As a result, strength is developed physically in the weight room, which by a separate process is developed mechanically outside the weight room. Simply stated, you build muscle in the weight room and movement outside the weight room.

TAKU

Well said sir. Phone Post
1/4/13 11:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32256
Honestly, I couldn't get through the first video on this dude's channel without going into rage mode.

He calls himself a "functional trainer." Now, in addition to what TAKU concisely added above, what the fuck in what I saw was in any way functional to the realm of MMA (as the video I watched claimed)?

Was it the twirling what looked like a medicine ball on a rope in front of him in a figure 8 pattern something he would do in MMA? Or what about the taking the pole and doing a resisted pole strike to the air relevant to MMA?

In both of these, the answer is no. Unless you are trying to get someone ready to star in a revival of Conan the Barbarian and they need to get stronger at twirling their sword, I fail to see how those movements have ANY carryover to what I've done in judo, or the year I spent with Greg Jackson doing MMA.

Now, let's get into the really weird shit. What the Sam Fuck is this guy doing with a dumbbell twirling and piroutte-ing around like some Kansas City faggot? Is he trying to teach functional strength for pairs figure skating? Because it sure as fuck ain't MMA.
1/4/13 11:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32257
To add:

As Taku states, and I agree, there is no such thing as "functional training" in a weight room unless you happen to participate in powerlifting, Olympic lifting, Crossfit games (which I personally still don't see as a sport, but WTF), or Strongman- competition.

That being said, a lot of folks are seduced by the crap like this because they don't understand the true science of training. They confuse the visible product with the complexity.

The complex part of training is not in the movements themselves. Squats are squats, deadlifts are deadlifts. They are simple in appearance, and definitely not "sexy."

What is more complex is the skull work that goes into it. Why are you choosing squats over split squats? Why powerlifter over Olympic What rep ranges are you using? What sets? What loading patterns are you trying to establish? And what the fuck are you thinking trying to twirl around like Mikhail Baryshnikov with a dumbbell, you idiot?

All that skull work is the complex, difficult, and (for those who love it) the most fun part of lifting. For true experts like Dougie or TAKU, they make it look easy, because they've seen 20 or 100 different cases very similar to what they observe every day. I'm nowhere near that level, and I can still take an average person and assign a good program quickly.

The problem for MMA fighters is that they often fail to recognize this. Just as training boxing, or wrestling, or jiu-jitsu is often repetitive, boring, and seemingly simple (just go out there and drill the techniques till your brain falls out your ears), we all recognize that the complex part is there (momentary positioning, combinations, positioning, etc), even when some drunk redneck at the bar is hollering at the TV screen "stop dry humping him just beat his ass!"

MMA fighters are getting bamboozled by so many trainers, again because they are confused by what is the simple part and what is the complex part. But by and large many fighters are too stubborn, hard headed, and insecure (unwilling to admit that while their physical skills in the ring are superior, that doesn't make them physical experts) to go out and study the truth. Those who do respond very well. Those who don't, get by because of their physical talents and luck, until something breaks on them.
1/5/13 1:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Taku
149 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6402

"MMA fighters are getting bamboozled by so many trainers, again because they are confused by what is the simple part and what is the complex part. But by and large many fighters are too stubborn, hard headed, and insecure (unwilling to admit that while their physical skills in the ring are superior, that doesn't make them physical experts) to go out and study the truth. Those who do respond very well. Those who don't, get by because of their physical talents and luck, until something breaks on them."

YES!!!

TAKU

1/5/13 11:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 516
You guys make valid points. From what I seen with this guy is it seems like he is trying to trick people with terms like thoraxic expansion, (he says it every 10 seconds) to make him seem like he is teaching is some new age methodology. I just had a feeling that he isn't all that he is cracked up to be. I seen alot of notable fighters on his channel and even then I'm not sold on this functionality that he claims. It just seems like a gimmick to make money.

He tells you that you have this and this and this problem and only his style of training can correct it.

I am skeptical. Phone Post
1/5/13 12:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HULC
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 4393
I just watched his boxing video. Not once did he talk about timing, distance, rhythm or head movement. He didn't mention footwork, ring generalship, parrying, counters, combos, infighting, clinching, or body punching. He didn't even touch the basics of weight shift to generate power in punches. Instead he was teaching his student to concentrate on retracting his scapula when he punched,expanding his thoracic, and concentrate on internally rotating his shoulder.

Now i love sports science and am a big fan of stretching/teaching your body to move efficiently. But that's stuff to do in your down time, and not something you should be thinking of in the heat of battle. In short it's God awful instruction.
1/5/13 7:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32260
I sweat to God if I ever wanted to just say fuck it, sell out my integrity, and cash in, I'm just gonna start having people do stupid bullshit for lifts while I pratter on in a few key buzzwords that just mash together a few bio-mechanical sounding terms together.

let's see, how about "patellar retraction", "gleno-humeral rotation" and "transverse anti-contraction" while having them jump up and down on a giant bean bag chair while wearing a weight vest?
1/5/13 11:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dean Demuro
329 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/22/05
Posts: 6246
Chocolate Shatner - I sweat to God if I ever wanted to just say fuck it, sell out my integrity, and cash in, I'm just gonna start having people do stupid bullshit for lifts while I pratter on in a few key buzzwords that just mash together a few bio-mechanical sounding terms together.

let's see, how about "patellar retraction", "gleno-humeral rotation" and "transverse anti-contraction" while having them jump up and down on a giant bean bag chair while wearing a weight vest?
LOL, my lady and I were just talking about developing a new scam workout to capitalize on.

Are any of your keywords...um...patented? You know, out of curiosity. Phone Post
1/6/13 3:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Shortkick
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/19/07
Posts: 602
Chocolate Shatner - I sweat to God if I ever wanted to just say fuck it, sell out my integrity, and cash in, I'm just gonna start having people do stupid bullshit for lifts while I pratter on in a few key buzzwords that just mash together a few bio-mechanical sounding terms together.

let's see, how about "patellar retraction", "gleno-humeral rotation" and "transverse anti-contraction" while having them jump up and down on a giant bean bag chair while wearing a weight vest?
That shut was effin funny! Phone Post
1/6/13 10:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wiggy
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10337

I realize I might be over-generalizing just a bit, for the most part, virtually ever 'functional trainer" I've come across was a self-important douche-bag who spent entirely too much time figuring out how to make random shit overly hard and goofy b/c he was too big of a puss to just get under some heavy weight.

*shrug*

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com

1/6/13 5:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChrisBeyondStrength
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/30/12
Posts: 35
Agreed... Holy crap it's a bunch of mumbo jumbo. BLAH, he won't be around long. Get strong. Phone Post
1/6/13 8:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32262
Wiggy - 

I realize I might be over-generalizing just a bit, for the most part, virtually ever 'functional trainer" I've come across was a self-important douche-bag who spent entirely too much time figuring out how to make random shit overly hard and goofy b/c he was too big of a puss to just get under some heavy weight.

*shrug*

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com


its not *shrug*, its *traptacular activation!*
1/6/13 8:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 517
I just pick shit up and put it down its pretty fucking functional. Phone Post
1/6/13 8:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32263
dude, you pick up shit? I use iron plates, personally.
1/7/13 12:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sequoyah Sandford
64 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/29/11
Posts: 518
Keeps me mean.... Phone Post
1/7/13 2:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chocolate Shatner
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 32267
yeah well, just take a shower after you lift and before you practice, okay?
1/8/13 10:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Gunslinger
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/5/11
Posts: 25
I think there is 'functional' training, it's just not what most personal trainers think it is. It's just loaded natural human movements. Squats, deadlifts, pressing overhead, pullups, dips, and loaded carries and a few variations of those. That being said, that doesn't mean that things that aren't those listed aren't worth doing, but those usually fall into the assistance category of building the above.
1/10/13 4:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HULC
53 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 4433
If by functional you mean movements that would help the average person in their daily life, then i don't think any of those are functional.

Running, walking over rough terrain, climbing stairs, climbing in general, swimming, and maybe some other things, are about all the "functional" skills most humans will ever need. Anything more specific would only be useful in specific circumstances, and would need to be trained for specifically.
1/10/13 5:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheKidAintMine
154 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12917
HULC - If by functional you mean movements that would help the average person in their daily life, then i don't think any of those are functional.

Running, walking over rough terrain, climbing stairs, climbing in general, swimming, and maybe some other things, are about all the "functional" skills most humans will ever need. Anything more specific would only be useful in specific circumstances, and would need to be trained for specifically.

Yup.
1/11/13 2:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Gunslinger
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/5/11
Posts: 28
I can tell you it WILL help every person in normal everyday life 100% of the time. Your line of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the entire field of health and fitness. I've trained so many people and the base of strength on these movements 100% of the time makes the biggest difference in their abilities in everyday life, including these basic things you are talking about. I won't say that is what makes them 'functional' I call them functional because they are basic movement patterns that EVERY HUMAN with two arms and two legs can do when they display healthy movement patterns. We simply load them to make them into exercises. Now let me explain:

Squatting is an ability that toddlers begin to do as soon as they can walk. These are full squats, ass to heels, back locked in extension. They will do this correctly every time without being taught. Many cultures, particularly in the 3rd world do this as a normal part of their daily life, they never lose it. The bottom of the squat is a default sitting position for people-you can watch videos of H/G, and 3rd world farmers in fields picking crops and working using this position. Everyone can do it. We load it and make it an exercise, being that it is a basic human movement is why I call it 'functional'. It's also why it works so well as an exercise for everyone.

So how does that translate to the average person? First of all, most people lose it very quickly in modern culture, to the point a lot of kids can't do it by the time they are in school. It's caused by loss of strength and muscle mass and loss of mobility. Once you get the average person doing it properly, their muscles balance out (the full squat works the back and front of the legs in a very well balanced fashion) you've built their muscle strength to a point where they can move, increased their mobility and flexibility, their ability to maintain thoracic extension is fixed, these things together begin to get rid of back and knee pain they may have had prior to being able to do a squat. Of course teaching these things properly requires a competent coach, especially in order to train everyone to do it, which everyone can, and their aren't many out there. These are the things that happen when I teach a person to squat properly. It takes time and dedication, it's not an overnight thing for many people.

So this translates to pretty much everything you are talking about in one exercise. Now, climbing stairs is easy, they can run better, walk better... those 'functional' skills you list are all fixed and bettered simply by improving the above by learning the squat. If I get an old lady to squat properly and begin to load it, she'll cease to have osteoporosis issues, she'll never need a life alert, and never need a hoveround. I can't say the same for the things you've listed above. It may happen, but it'll be hit or miss.

Now, I can list any of the exercises I listed and break them down in the same fashion, but I'm not going to go through that long of a post. But, the thing is, when it's functional-meaning normal human movement patterns, and you can do them to the point that they can be loaded, literally everything you wrote will be improved. And I can do it in a program that lasts 30 minutes a couple of times a week if I want to be very basic. Let's take getting an old man to do dips and pullups to the point he can do 12 reps with 40lbs added, which is doable for anyone fairly easily. That will do anything climbing a wall can do for him without having to learn how to do rock climbing and with less than 100 dollars of gear. It'll also do most anything for his body that swimming could ever produce, without the common overuse injuries that often accompany swimming.

You talk about anything more than what you listed as being specific. I'm saying what I posted is as general as it gets-because they are basic movement patternes! In my opinion, when you get to swimming and climbing, you are talking specifics that are useful for those things with a little peripheral use. I'm talking body health into old age. Walking and running are a fine activity, anyone should be able to do, but they aren't going to fix the issues I listed above by simply learning a squat. In fact, it can make the problems worse, my friend.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.