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BJJGround Forum >> bjj teacher = bad businessman. Is this why Lloyd


1/7/13 2:27 AM
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rexkwondo79
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Irvin is so loved?

What exactly is he informing guys like Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo, etc at his seminars? His videos are well produced and so far I like what he has been contributing to the jj community - that brown belt episode was excellent. I like the idea of having a jiu jitsu house and a competition team of medal chasers.

But, some of the website names and such seem so 'as seen on tv' in terms of gimmick level. I understand that most bjj teachers are teachers first and generally terrible businessmen, so he is showing efficient and effective ways to produce income and increase a student base? Is he teaching the value of merch and online presence/brand?
1/7/13 4:34 AM
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RobMcKenzie
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Why don't you just go to one of his seminars or order some of his DVDs if you're so interested?
That's really the only way you're going to find out. Phone Post
1/7/13 6:42 AM
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N5Z
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Pretty much Phone Post
1/7/13 7:39 AM
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JasonGV
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rexkwondo79 - Irvin is so loved?

What exactly is he informing guys like Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo, etc at his seminars? His videos are well produced and so far I like what he has been contributing to the jj community - that brown belt episode was excellent. I like the idea of having a jiu jitsu house and a competition team of medal chasers.

But, some of the website names and such seem so 'as seen on tv' in terms of gimmick level. I understand that most bjj teachers are teachers first and generally terrible businessmen, so he is showing efficient and effective ways to produce income and increase a student base? Is he teaching the value of merch and online presence/brand?

A key part of this kind of Internet marketing is relentless boosterism from members of the syndicate.

You can read about the business model here:

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2011/03/27/editorial-why-the-internet-marketing-syndicate-product-launch-model-must-and-will-fail-and-why-the-trade-should-reject-the-mind-numbing-babble-of-frank-kern/

The reason that you may perceive Irvin as "so loved" is because:

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."



1/7/13 10:27 AM
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Muffinho
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It's not that necessarily being a BJJ instructor => you are a bad business man.

It's simply that, a majority of BJJ instructors are, for one reason or another, bad at business.

Lloyd Irvin is not.
1/7/13 10:54 AM
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Baroquen Record
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Muffinho - It's not that necessarily being a BJJ instructor => you are a bad business man.

It's simply that, a majority of BJJ instructors are, for one reason or another, bad at business.

Lloyd Irvin is not.
More that they aren't business educated.

And the ones that are usually make money elsewhere and do bjj as an escape from their other lives. Phone Post
1/7/13 7:31 PM
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FJJ828
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JasonGV - 
rexkwondo79 - Irvin is so loved?

What exactly is he informing guys like Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo, etc at his seminars? His videos are well produced and so far I like what he has been contributing to the jj community - that brown belt episode was excellent. I like the idea of having a jiu jitsu house and a competition team of medal chasers.

But, some of the website names and such seem so 'as seen on tv' in terms of gimmick level. I understand that most bjj teachers are teachers first and generally terrible businessmen, so he is showing efficient and effective ways to produce income and increase a student base? Is he teaching the value of merch and online presence/brand?

A key part of this kind of Internet marketing is relentless boosterism from members of the syndicate.

You can read about the business model here:

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2011/03/27/editorial-why-the-internet-marketing-syndicate-product-launch-model-must-and-will-fail-and-why-the-trade-should-reject-the-mind-numbing-babble-of-frank-kern/

The reason that you may perceive Irvin as "so loved" is because:

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."




Wow.

Interesting read...

1/7/13 7:46 PM
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shen
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Edited: 01/07/13 7:54 PM
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I've recently become affiliated with the "Frank Kern Top Team", myself.
1/7/13 9:19 PM
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Mr Mike from NC
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What does he tell his students at those big 4 day seminars? What are some of the basics? How does a great instructor, but poor business man improve their business?
1/7/13 9:19 PM
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Mr Mike from NC
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What does he tell his students at those big 4 day seminars? What are some of the basics? How does a great instructor, but poor business man improve their business?
1/7/13 10:20 PM
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patches
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What does he tell his students at those big 4 day seminars? What are some of the basics? How does a great instructor, but poor business man improve their business?
1/8/13 12:14 AM
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VincentVega
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. Phone Post
1/8/13 2:14 AM
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AlabamaSmooth
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Like most of these seminars (business, self help, etc) the information is mostly common sense stuff. You would be surprised how many people lack common sense.

With business, I doubt many instructors take a look at:

- demographics in the area
- competition
- location
- what the market will bear in terms of pricing

I doubt they bother to:

- Have a prudent web presence (my school is not even on google maps)
- Cater to different students needs. You cant have a one size fits all strategy in jiu-jitsu. Not everyone wants to be mundials champion
- create a proper business plan( this would hypothetically cover everything mentioned herein)

This is very basic stuff but I have seen schools fail to implement or recognize many of the points listed above.
1/8/13 2:28 AM
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On the Mat
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JasonGV - 
rexkwondo79 - Irvin is so loved?

What exactly is he informing guys like Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo, etc at his seminars? His videos are well produced and so far I like what he has been contributing to the jj community - that brown belt episode was excellent. I like the idea of having a jiu jitsu house and a competition team of medal chasers.

But, some of the website names and such seem so 'as seen on tv' in terms of gimmick level. I understand that most bjj teachers are teachers first and generally terrible businessmen, so he is showing efficient and effective ways to produce income and increase a student base? Is he teaching the value of merch and online presence/brand?

A key part of this kind of Internet marketing is relentless boosterism from members of the syndicate.

You can read about the business model here:

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2011/03/27/editorial-why-the-internet-marketing-syndicate-product-launch-model-must-and-will-fail-and-why-the-trade-should-reject-the-mind-numbing-babble-of-frank-kern/

The reason that you may perceive Irvin as "so loved" is because:

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."




How the heck does article even come close to applying? You're obviously just trolling with BS. Nothing in this article has anything to do with the MA School business model.

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."

So Eddie and Lloyd are going to match their schedules and pricing on BJJ classes to fool the world? how would that work? Eddie is in Cali and LI is in Maryland. I doubt they share any of the same customers. Their students might be competitors on the mat but as school owners how are they competitors?

"the strategy is to quickly siphon $1 million from a collection of 500 suckers authorized by their credit-card companies to charge at least $2,000, close up shop,"

So we should expect LI and Eddie to be closing up there schools after they charge everyone for classes? I think LI and Eddie will be open for classes for many years to come.

"Nothing about the Syndicate model is consistent with a commitment to quality, innovation and excellence."

LI and Eddie are not innovators or have a commitment to quality? So all their students suck? They are not innovating new techniques?

"The Syndicate method is an Internet Marketing abomination advanced by a collection of fools who’ve reimagined themselves as coaches, leaders, trainers and deep thinkers."

All the top guys that work with LI are imagined coaches, leaders, trainers,??? Robson Morra, Joe Lauson, Eddie Bravo, The Aveallons, Fabio Leopoldo, rhadi ferguson olympian all are FAKES?? OMG !!!

"The Syndicate model is all about avoidance of worthy aims."

So training people to be world champs and pro MMA fighters are not worth aims?

Either your reading comprehension is awful, you don't understand a business model or your just a SUPER HATER!!!! Which is it?

1/8/13 3:08 AM
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On the Mat
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AlabamaSmooth - Like most of these seminars (business, self help, etc) the information is mostly common sense stuff. You would be surprised how many people lack common sense.

With business, I doubt many instructors take a look at:

- demographics in the area
- competition
- location
- what the market will bear in terms of pricing

I doubt they bother to:

- Have a prudent web presence (my school is not even on google maps)
- Cater to different students needs. You cant have a one size fits all strategy in jiu-jitsu. Not everyone wants to be mundials champion
- create a proper business plan( this would hypothetically cover everything mentioned herein)

This is very basic stuff but I have seen schools fail to implement or recognize many of the points listed above.

None of the above was covered. It was far from basic.
1/8/13 3:08 AM
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On the Mat
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AlabamaSmooth - Like most of these seminars (business, self help, etc) the information is mostly common sense stuff. You would be surprised how many people lack common sense.

With business, I doubt many instructors take a look at:

- demographics in the area
- competition
- location
- what the market will bear in terms of pricing

I doubt they bother to:

- Have a prudent web presence (my school is not even on google maps)
- Cater to different students needs. You cant have a one size fits all strategy in jiu-jitsu. Not everyone wants to be mundials champion
- create a proper business plan( this would hypothetically cover everything mentioned herein)

This is very basic stuff but I have seen schools fail to implement or recognize many of the points listed above.

None of the above was covered. It was far from basic.
1/8/13 3:20 AM
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sufferingsuckatash
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On the Mat - 
JasonGV - 
rexkwondo79 - Irvin is so loved?

What exactly is he informing guys like Robson Moura, Eddie Bravo, etc at his seminars? His videos are well produced and so far I like what he has been contributing to the jj community - that brown belt episode was excellent. I like the idea of having a jiu jitsu house and a competition team of medal chasers.

But, some of the website names and such seem so 'as seen on tv' in terms of gimmick level. I understand that most bjj teachers are teachers first and generally terrible businessmen, so he is showing efficient and effective ways to produce income and increase a student base? Is he teaching the value of merch and online presence/brand?

A key part of this kind of Internet marketing is relentless boosterism from members of the syndicate.

You can read about the business model here:

http://www.patrickpretty.com/2011/03/27/editorial-why-the-internet-marketing-syndicate-product-launch-model-must-and-will-fail-and-why-the-trade-should-reject-the-mind-numbing-babble-of-frank-kern/

The reason that you may perceive Irvin as "so loved" is because:

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."




How the heck does article even come close to applying? You're obviously just trolling with BS. Nothing in this article has anything to do with the MA School business model.

"Under the Syndicate model, competitors at all levels ... reimagine themselves as strategic partners and divine a construction by which they’re no longer competitors... They agree formally or informally to product-launch schedules and pricing..."

So Eddie and Lloyd are going to match their schedules and pricing on BJJ classes to fool the world? how would that work? Eddie is in Cali and LI is in Maryland. I doubt they share any of the same customers. Their students might be competitors on the mat but as school owners how are they competitors?

"the strategy is to quickly siphon $1 million from a collection of 500 suckers authorized by their credit-card companies to charge at least $2,000, close up shop,"

So we should expect LI and Eddie to be closing up there schools after they charge everyone for classes? I think LI and Eddie will be open for classes for many years to come.

"Nothing about the Syndicate model is consistent with a commitment to quality, innovation and excellence."

LI and Eddie are not innovators or have a commitment to quality? So all their students suck? They are not innovating new techniques?

"The Syndicate method is an Internet Marketing abomination advanced by a collection of fools who’ve reimagined themselves as coaches, leaders, trainers and deep thinkers."

All the top guys that work with LI are imagined coaches, leaders, trainers,??? Robson Morra, Joe Lauson, Eddie Bravo, The Aveallons, Fabio Leopoldo, rhadi ferguson olympian all are FAKES?? OMG !!!

"The Syndicate model is all about avoidance of worthy aims."

So training people to be world champs and pro MMA fighters are not worth aims?

Either your reading comprehension is awful, you don't understand a business model or your just a SUPER HATER!!!! Which is it?


OTM= Lloyd and Eddies third wheel

1/9/13 12:27 AM
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AlabamaSmooth
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On the Mat - 
AlabamaSmooth - Like most of these seminars (business, self help, etc) the information is mostly common sense stuff. You would be surprised how many people lack common sense.

With business, I doubt many instructors take a look at:

- demographics in the area
- competition
- location
- what the market will bear in terms of pricing

I doubt they bother to:

- Have a prudent web presence (my school is not even on google maps)
- Cater to different students needs. You cant have a one size fits all strategy in jiu-jitsu. Not everyone wants to be mundials champion
- create a proper business plan( this would hypothetically cover everything mentioned herein)

This is very basic stuff but I have seen schools fail to implement or recognize many of the points listed above.

None of the above was covered. It was far from basic.

I find it hard to believe that having a web presence was not covered since it's Lloyd. I'll take your word for it though.
1/10/13 7:18 PM
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whaledog
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Edited: 01/14/13 7:03 PM
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How the heck does article even come close to applying? You're obviously just trolling with BS. Nothing in this article has anything to do with the MA School business model.

Lloyd uses many of the marketing principles used by dubious internet marketers, including those of "the Syndicate." There is an interesting article about those types of guys here: Scamworld: 'Get rich quick' schemes mutate into an online monster.

To be clear, I'm not saying Lloyd is a scammer. I'm only saying that he runs a marketing plan that parallels some of what you read in that article.

1/10/13 7:39 PM
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Hodgeny
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Ok, I've been a lurker on this for a while, I'll give my $0.02

I live in an certain area of Sydney Australia. In this area, within a 15km radius, there are 4 other BJJ schools apart from mine. Including a Gracie Barra (and all their newtorking expertise), and a UFC Fighter. All these schools have "Brazilian" Black Belts, I am the only Australian.

(I mention where they're born because people have a tendancy to try the "Brazilian" Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt over the Australian if they have a chance)

Despite this, I have more students than any of them, and have a turnover of $100k+. I also run another full time IT business, which turns over more.

Why? Because Over 10 years ago I read "think and grow rich" (still read it often). And I did business courses. I attended seminars with Brad Sugars, Bob Proctor, John Kanary (google their names) and others when they came to Sydney. I've spent thousands of dollars on all this stuff and it works.I even bought a hair dressing salon, with 2 mates, just for the experience.

Bottom line ...

All Lloyd is doing is taking what he's learnt as these seminars, and products of this type, and marketing it to BJJ School owners who have never given it a thought. He is clever in that he's taking this information and putting it into a package that BJJ School Owners can then buy and use. If the school owners have a strong work ethic, it will work. If they don't use the information, they wasted their money.
1/11/13 3:06 PM
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m.g
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Muffinho - It's not that necessarily being a BJJ instructor => you are a bad business man.

It's simply that, a majority of BJJ instructors are, for one reason or another, bad at business.

Lloyd Irvin is not.

Excellent point!

One of the many unfortunate things in the world of martial arts is people trying to make a living in it (by opening up schools etc) and lacking sound business sense and management skills.

For some reason people think they can be a professional instructor (which is what a martial arts instructor is) without any teaching training or skill; and run a business (which is what a martial arts school is) without any business sense or experience.
1/11/13 3:19 PM
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JJK
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Hodgeny - Ok, I've been a lurker on this for a while, I'll give my $0.02

I live in an certain area of Sydney Australia. In this area, within a 15km radius, there are 4 other BJJ schools apart from mine. Including a Gracie Barra (and all their newtorking expertise), and a UFC Fighter. All these schools have "Brazilian" Black Belts, I am the only Australian.

(I mention where they're born because people have a tendancy to try the "Brazilian" Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt over the Australian if they have a chance)

Despite this, I have more students than any of them, and have a turnover of $100k+. I also run another full time IT business, which turns over more.

Why? Because Over 10 years ago I read "think and grow rich" (still read it often). And I did business courses. I attended seminars with Brad Sugars, Bob Proctor, John Kanary (google their names) and others when they came to Sydney. I've spent thousands of dollars on all this stuff and it works.I even bought a hair dressing salon, with 2 mates, just for the experience.

Bottom line ...

All Lloyd is doing is taking what he's learnt as these seminars, and products of this type, and marketing it to BJJ School owners who have never given it a thought. He is clever in that he's taking this information and putting it into a package that BJJ School Owners can then buy and use. If the school owners have a strong work ethic, it will work. If they don't use the information, they wasted their money.

Well said Hodgeny! And what Hodgeny doesn't mention is that he has done this while being one of Australia's most successful BJJ competitors and is married and raising a family! :-)
Hope all is well with you Hodgeny and I'm sure we'll catch up soon at the next major competition!

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