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1/16/13 7:41 AM
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in_different
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6ULDV8 - 

This is a pretty cool thread.  I find the existence of a benevelont God difficult to believe and honestly don't think any religion is 'correct'.

 

But whatever floats your boat.  I have no problem with that as long as you're not hurting anyone else or shoving your faith (or lack thereof) down anyone's throat.

 

I was blessed by John Paul II when I was 15 just because I had the chance to do so.  It was awesome and he seemed like a really great man.  I'm not catholic, but didn't want to pass up that chance.

 

Rock on dudes.  Gobless us every one.


I have to inject that john Paul II ordered the pedophile cover up by the catholic church, so i wouldn't vouch for him as an upstanding individual. Disgusting behavior. But its the politics of his position.

I agree with the rest of your post
1/16/13 11:32 AM
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woe
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Jimmy Rustler - 
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Jimmy Rustler -

Frank Mir is an atheist and he is teaching that crap to his kids too who are gonna grow up without God in their life... kinda sad situation

At least he's not pumping them full of bullshit.

Fucking Christians might not be the most nutty of the fruitcakes but they are definitely in the running for most arrogant and least intellectual. Phone Post

Albert Einstein believed in God, so there goes your argument, retard.


Einstein was most definitely an atheist. Look it up. Google is your friend.
1/16/13 11:46 AM
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woe
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SamboMMA - 
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Jimmy Rustler -

Frank Mir is an atheist and he is teaching that crap to his kids too who are gonna grow up without God in their life... kinda sad situation

How is that at all sad?

You know what is sad? Religious indoctrination and making your children believe in your fairy tales Phone Post

Yes and brainwashing your kids into believing that they deserve something for nothing and Liberal bullshit isn't a fairytale.


Atheism is as much of a Faith based system than Christianity or any other Religion.

Nice try there but atheists don't have "faith". They believe in science and require proof. You on the other hand believe without any proof or scientific facts. That's called being gullible. And not too bright either.
1/16/13 11:52 AM
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woe
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DarrenMullen - 
Outlaw'd by Lytle -  All of the highly intelligent ones are Atheist. Phone Post

Atheism - The belief there was absolutely NOTHING. Then nothing happened to the NOTHING until it magically exploded creating EVERYTHING everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded EVERYTHING magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Sounds intelligent to me!

Please. Did you quit school in the third grade? I suppose you also think the world is only 10,000 years old, Moses really parted the sea, and Noah actually built an ark with two of every creature on earth on board while drowning every other human on the planet? Makes perfect sense.
1/16/13 11:58 AM
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woe
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Jimmy Rustler - 
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ItBurnsWheniOG - 
Jimmy Rustler -
ItBurnsWheniOG - 
Jimmy Rustler -

Frank Mir is an atheist and he is teaching that crap to his kids too who are gonna grow up without God in their life... kinda sad situation

I'm all for parents who let their kids make up their own minds about religion... I personally don't believe any of it but I'll let my kids make up their own minds if they want to believe these fairytales. Phone Post

at least baptise them

Lol no.... I don't go to church why would I start now? Obviously I don't hold their same morals. Phone Post

go watch Passion of The Christ... Jesus Christ was the son of God... I do believe that he performed miracles. You should to.

 

You are probably one of those guys who believes Jesus Christ was a delusional maniac

If he thinks Jesus was a delusional maniac then he's giving the bible quite a lot of credit; that Jesus actually existed at all. Which is quite a concession given the bible's track record of telling the truth.... Phone Post
Jesus did exist... Hes written about in books not related to the bible and most scholars agree that he was a real person Phone Post

Everything written about Jesus was written decades after his supposed existence strictly on hearsay. There are NO eye witness accounts of Jesus. And, once your dead, your dead. Rotting, decaying bodies do not come back. Scientific fact.
1/16/13 5:06 PM
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Porkchop
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Outlaw'd by Lytle - 
Outlaw'd by Lytle -
donkypunch55 - you too porkchop for absolutly bringing it in this thread.
Thank you sir, will return the compliment when next at a PC. Phone Post
Quoted the wrong post! Phone Post

:)
1/16/13 6:25 PM
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Zaph
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I'm pretty athy. I don't know if I'm THE athiest, but I'm probably athier than most of you. Phone Post
1/16/13 7:16 PM
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DiscipleDojo
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Porkchop,

Your last post was excellent and I very much respect what you said in it (it was much less dogmatic than previous ones, I feel). But there are a number of assumptions that it reveals which are worth pressing. The main one being your not being able to see how Collins can be a foremost geneticist, yet believe in "a talking snake."

What you're doing is making a hermeneutic assumption (which is in the realm of Biblical interpretation and theology) that does not hold among the majority of Christians--that of Biblical literalism. Collins does not "reject the parts" of the Bible that he feels are "wrong." This is a common charge levelled against theistic evolutionists and other non-Young-Earth-Creationists by those who hold to Biblical literalism. It's also why I teach the seminar I linked to earlier. When it comes to science and Scripture, people often have an insufficient grasp of one or the other and end up talking past one another as a result.

While I'd love for more people to take our seminar, I know that most people aren't going to spend $25 on a DVD set by someone saying something they think they won't agree with. But I would encourage anyone interested in this topic to at least read the following short articles and make sure what you are rejecting is what a faith actually teaches. If that's the case, so be it. I just grieve seeing people reject something they haven't made a genuine good-faith effort to understand.

Here are a few links from Disciple Dojo's article archive for anyone interested. If you're not interested, no worries. But these are for anyone here who might be:

Bible & Science

Christian approaches to the Bible and science

Are the ‘Days’ in Genesis 1 literal 24-hour days?

Does Genesis tell us how old the earth is?

Genesis a copy of ancient pagan mythology (part 1)

Genesis a copy of ancient pagan mythology (part 2)

Why Noah’s Ark has not been found

BioLogos responds to criticism by Genesis-Literalist interpretation advocate

Francis Collins approved as Director of the NIH, some atheists not happy with Obama’s choice

Can Christians believe in evolution?

Evangelical Christians debate Intelligent Design

The lost world of Genesis One

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 1)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 2)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 3)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 4)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 5)

1/16/13 7:42 PM
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Porkchop
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DiscipleDojo - 

Porkchop,

Your last post was excellent and I very much respect what you said in it (it was much less dogmatic than previous ones, I feel). But there are a number of assumptions that it reveals which are worth pressing. The main one being your not being able to see how Collins can be a foremost geneticist, yet believe in "a talking snake."

What you're doing is making a hermeneutic assumption (which is in the realm of Biblical interpretation and theology) that does not hold among the majority of Christians--that of Biblical literalism. Collins does not "reject the parts" of the Bible that he feels are "wrong." This is a common charge levelled against theistic evolutionists and other non-Young-Earth-Creationists by those who hold to Biblical literalism. It's also why I teach the seminar I linked to earlier. When it comes to science and Scripture, people often have an insufficient grasp of one or the other and end up talking past one another as a result.

While I'd love for more people to take our seminar, I know that most people aren't going to spend $25 on a DVD set by someone saying something they think they won't agree with. But I would encourage anyone interested in this topic to at least read the following short articles and make sure what you are rejecting is what a faith actually teaches. If that's the case, so be it. I just grieve seeing people reject something they haven't made a genuine good-faith effort to understand.

Here are a few links from Disciple Dojo's article archive for anyone interested. If you're not interested, no worries. But these are for anyone here who might be:

Bible & Science

Christian approaches to the Bible and science

Are the ‘Days’ in Genesis 1 literal 24-hour days?

Does Genesis tell us how old the earth is?

Genesis a copy of ancient pagan mythology (part 1)

Genesis a copy of ancient pagan mythology (part 2)

Why Noah’s Ark has not been found

BioLogos responds to criticism by Genesis-Literalist interpretation advocate

Francis Collins approved as Director of the NIH, some atheists not happy with Obama’s choice

Can Christians believe in evolution?

Evangelical Christians debate Intelligent Design

The lost world of Genesis One

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 1)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 2)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 3)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 4)

Young earth, old earth, creation, evolution…what does Genesis teach? (part 5)


I'm not sure if you were refuting Collins believing in the virgin birth but Bill Maher interviewed him and Collins told him he does.

The thing is that everyone makes sense of it their own way because everyone has a different approach to reconciling the truths of science with their faith. And what you have as a result is a divided religious community that can't agree on what the stories of the bible mean and what parts to keep or throw away.

Science doesn't have that problem. Scientists are in total agreement about 99% of science and there is that 1% of theory where people develop and test theories to further scientific knowledge and not all scientists agree on those theories. But you won't find any scientists that disagree on evolution. meanwhile the religious can and do debate every single point of religion because they have to try to make sense of it.

Collins is good at what he does in the lab but I wonder how he deals with the guilt for messing with "god's design". He believes that god created everyone just the way he wanted to and then there goes Collins trying to find genetic cures for diseases that god intended people to get.... how does Collins deal with that conflict? I'd love to ask him some questions about that sort of thing.

At any rate, do your thing dude. Don't preach hate and tell people to keep their faith private if you could :) All the best.
1/16/13 10:13 PM
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DiscipleDojo
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You should read Collins' work, Porkchop. You'll see that a good number of your assumptions about him are incorrect.

In terms of different views, I feel your'e painting an overly-rosy picture of the amount of agreement and harmony within the scientific community on a whole number of issues, but that is for another time. Comparing it to religous doctrines based on historical claimed events and historical texts is apples to oranges. They seek quite different answers to quite different fields of inquiry and only occasionally overlap.

I can absolutely promise you that I won't preach hate.

But I won't promise to tell anyone to keep their faith private. I think people should be able to publicly express anything they cherish--so long as they're willing to let others do likewise in response. :) 

Fighters, instructors, and others who are atheist (or any other worldview that I don't share for that matter) but are also great fighters/teachers/trainers/etc., and are respectful towared the sport and their opponents, and aren't douchebags in general will always have my respect (John Danaher would be a perfect example, as he is fairly open in terms of his lack of religious belief, but is one of the greatest grappling minds on the planet and very respectful in person). If they're an obnoxious atheist, taking cheap shots at people of faith or getting pissed at any mention of religion at all, then of course I probably won't be their biggest fan. But that's how I feel about people who act that way and claim to be Christians as well.

Truth rises through rigorous cross-examination and subjecting claims and arguments to the highest degree of scrutiny. At the end of the day, I believe most of us want to believe whatever is in accordance with truth, so such discussions and debates have a valuable place whenever they're carried out with respect and honesty (which is rare on an online MMA forum! haha).

 

Now ignore "Princess" in the title and go watch a great flick!  And if you ever find yourself in Charlotte, NC and want to continue this discussion over a beer, it's on me (that goes for anyone reading this, not just Porkchop). :)

 

1/16/13 10:45 PM
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Porkchop
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DiscipleDojo - 

You should read Collins' work, Porkchop. You'll see that a good number of your assumptions about him are incorrect.

In terms of different views, I feel your'e painting an overly-rosy picture of the amount of agreement and harmony within the scientific community on a whole number of issues, but that is for another time. Comparing it to religous doctrines based on historical claimed events and historical texts is apples to oranges. They seek quite different answers to quite different fields of inquiry and only occasionally overlap.

I can absolutely promise you that I won't preach hate.

But I won't promise to tell anyone to keep their faith private. I think people should be able to publicly express anything they cherish--so long as they're willing to let others do likewise in response. :) 

Fighters, instructors, and others who are atheist (or any other worldview that I don't share for that matter) but are also great fighters/teachers/trainers/etc., and are respectful towared the sport and their opponents, and aren't douchebags in general will always have my respect (John Danaher would be a perfect example, as he is fairly open in terms of his lack of religious belief, but is one of the greatest grappling minds on the planet and very respectful in person). If they're an obnoxious atheist, taking cheap shots at people of faith or getting pissed at any mention of religion at all, then of course I probably won't be their biggest fan. But that's how I feel about people who act that way and claim to be Christians as well.

Truth rises through rigorous cross-examination and subjecting claims and arguments to the highest degree of scrutiny. At the end of the day, I believe most of us want to believe whatever is in accordance with truth, so such discussions and debates have a valuable place whenever they're carried out with respect and honesty (which is rare on an online MMA forum! haha).

 

Now ignore "Princess" in the title and go watch a great flick!  And if you ever find yourself in Charlotte, NC and want to continue this discussion over a beer, it's on me (that goes for anyone reading this, not just Porkchop). :)

 


Cool bro, it was good to jam on this. It's always good to have a back and forth where people keep it calm and it seems you have a pretty good command on that.

All the best in the future and if we ever cross paths, I'll gladly take you up on that beer.

Cheers!
1/16/13 10:51 PM
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shaqitup
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Jimmy Rustler - 

Frank Mir is an atheist and he is teaching that crap to his kids too who are gonna grow up without God in their life... kinda sad situation


He wouldn't have to teach anything to his kids if religious folks didn't go around parading their religion.

If there was no religion, you wouldn't have to tell your kids god probably doesn't exist.
1/18/13 11:15 PM
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burner22
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I think we can safely say bisping is on the atheist team. Haha. Stoked he said that, belfort is unbearable with his preacher talk Phone Post
1/18/13 11:50 PM
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Josey Wales
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Jimmy Rustler - 
UGSlapshot - 
Jimmy Rustler -

Frank Mir is an atheist and he is teaching that crap to his kids too who are gonna grow up without God in their life... kinda sad situation

At least he's not pumping them full of bullshit.

Fucking Christians might not be the most nutty of the fruitcakes but they are definitely in the running for most arrogant and least intellectual. Phone Post

Albert Einstein believed in God, so there goes your argument, retard.


Sorry bro, that is absolutly incorrect. Einstein did not believe in god. When he wrote and spoke of god, he meant the universe in general. You can goggle this and read the hand written letter, by einstein, detailing this subject matter. Most, if not all, ufc champs are uneducated, especially in science. Just in case, I'm not an atheist. Agnostic.
1/18/13 11:54 PM
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Josey Wales
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I wuld post the link to the letter but phone is not letting me. Just google it and read for yourself
1/19/13 7:48 AM
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FightToLive
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Joe Rogan say's we are made from complicated bacteria?
I thought we had the best weed right here in Canada?
Apparently Not! Smoke one for me Joe.
1/19/13 2:06 PM
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DiscipleDojo
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Porkchop - 
DiscipleDojo - 

You should read Collins' work, Porkchop. You'll see that a good number of your assumptions about him are incorrect.

In terms of different views, I feel your'e painting an overly-rosy picture of the amount of agreement and harmony within the scientific community on a whole number of issues, but that is for another time. Comparing it to religous doctrines based on historical claimed events and historical texts is apples to oranges. They seek quite different answers to quite different fields of inquiry and only occasionally overlap.

I can absolutely promise you that I won't preach hate.

But I won't promise to tell anyone to keep their faith private. I think people should be able to publicly express anything they cherish--so long as they're willing to let others do likewise in response. :) 

Fighters, instructors, and others who are atheist (or any other worldview that I don't share for that matter) but are also great fighters/teachers/trainers/etc., and are respectful towared the sport and their opponents, and aren't douchebags in general will always have my respect (John Danaher would be a perfect example, as he is fairly open in terms of his lack of religious belief, but is one of the greatest grappling minds on the planet and very respectful in person). If they're an obnoxious atheist, taking cheap shots at people of faith or getting pissed at any mention of religion at all, then of course I probably won't be their biggest fan. But that's how I feel about people who act that way and claim to be Christians as well.

Truth rises through rigorous cross-examination and subjecting claims and arguments to the highest degree of scrutiny. At the end of the day, I believe most of us want to believe whatever is in accordance with truth, so such discussions and debates have a valuable place whenever they're carried out with respect and honesty (which is rare on an online MMA forum! haha).

 

Now ignore "Princess" in the title and go watch a great flick!  And if you ever find yourself in Charlotte, NC and want to continue this discussion over a beer, it's on me (that goes for anyone reading this, not just Porkchop). :)

 


Cool bro, it was good to jam on this. It's always good to have a back and forth where people keep it calm and it seems you have a pretty good command on that.

All the best in the future and if we ever cross paths, I'll gladly take you up on that beer.

Cheers!

"You're my boy, Blue."

1/19/13 10:34 PM
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LastRowCarl
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Well I guess when bisping told vitor there "is no jesus" he can be added to the list. .. Phone Post
1/19/13 11:12 PM
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Porkchop
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Edited: 01/19/13 11:12 PM
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FightToLive - Joe Rogan say's we are made from complicated bacteria?
I thought we had the best weed right here in Canada?
Apparently Not! Smoke one for me Joe.

for much of the planets' existence there were only single celled prokaryotic cells. So Joe isn't wrong about that. We came from it. We aren't made of it.

However, about 90% of the cells in your body (by number, not mass) are bacteria like e. coli. So you are actually the product of many symbiotic relationships and you couldn't survive without some of those relationships.

Joe does have some funky theories about some things but if he worded what he said exactly as you said it, he wasn't far off the truth.

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