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UnderGround Forums >> Vitor on TRT? ESPN article


1/9/13 1:39 PM
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JROTT
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Wovito -
JROTT -  This isn't the Olympics, I say let them all juice their tits off and let's see who's the best after that!

JUST BLEED! Phone Post

The obvious result is that allowing such a chemical advantage would preclude any "clean" fighters from making it to the highest levels.

This is not a good outcome.
Who cares though, it would make for some great fights! Everyone juiced in Pride, you want your prime Shogun or Wand back? This is the answer! Phone Post
1/9/13 1:47 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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I'm going to say this in BOLD because it's very important.

A fighter who is taking head shots risks damage to the pituitary gland. This gland determines the output of Testosterone. If it is damaged and T levels fall, then getting on HRT is a VERY BAD IDEA.

Why? It masks the effects of a fighter having essentially brain damage.

Someone who is verified (and there are tests) to have Low T due to pituitary damage should NOT, imo continue to fight.

HTH.

 

1/9/13 2:31 PM
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MbA7601
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Let trt vitor bang bro Phone Post
1/9/13 2:34 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Don_Dada - 
epwar - 

Annnnnnnnnnnnd Bisping now has his excuse line up.  


I've never once heard Bisping use this form of gaining an advantage as an excuse for either of his losses to Hendo or Sonnen.


Hendo first fight with TRT was in Pride 33. This was sourced before (TRT exemption for that fight) & he's said he started in 2007. If you disputes this please source out the claim.
1/9/13 2:37 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Anyway you have repeated claims by fighters that 80 percent of the roster is on the 'real juice', the last one being Stun Gun and the UG wants to worry about legal TRT. LOL
1/9/13 2:46 PM
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chawkins
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There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".
1/9/13 3:11 PM
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DonFreedomFrye
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chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.
1/9/13 3:45 PM
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chawkins
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Edited: 01/09/13 3:46 PM
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DonFreedomFrye - 
chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

Take a careful look at the language and how it is used.

When people talk about "juicing" they're referring to raising one's T levels to supraphysiological levels - that is, levels greater than what a human body is supposed to have or produce - via the use of anabolid-androgenic steroids. If they weren't going above normal human levels, there'd be no reason to cry foul, right?

And in so doing, yes, "juicing" does enhance performance (if I had to nitpick, I'd point out that what they mainly enhance is recovery, which in turn enhances performance, but we can split those hairs another day).


When people talk about TRT, you have to remember what the "R" stands for - Replacement. TRT is a therapeutic technique meant to *replace* testosterone levels that have declined; not to elevate the body to supraphysiological levels, but to simply put them back to a healthy level. And in doing so, TRT can't really be said to be enhancing performance, but merely restoring it to what it used to be.

That's the difference.

Now, if you want to discuss whether athletes who are on TRT are *actually* on TRT anjd are *actually* restoring their hormone levels to their previous normal highs vs. merely claiming TRT as a cover for going supraphysiological, that's a real discussion that can be had.
1/9/13 4:41 PM
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HOLLYWOOD-MO
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epwar - 

Annnnnnnnnnnnd Bisping now has his excuse line up.  


like he's not on??


1/9/13 4:52 PM
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Don_Dada
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Lazer MMA -
Don_Dada - 
epwar - 

Annnnnnnnnnnnd Bisping now has his excuse line up.  


I've never once heard Bisping use this form of gaining an advantage as an excuse for either of his losses to Hendo or Sonnen.


Hendo first fight with TRT was in Pride 33. This was sourced before (TRT exemption for that fight) & he's said he started in 2007. If you disputes this please source out the claim.
What are you talking about? Phone Post
1/9/13 5:02 PM
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3rdLion
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DonFreedomFrye - 
chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

This!

99% of those on TRT are on steroids. In most cycles you take testosterone as well, TRT is just legitimising part of their cycle.

It's bullshit.
1/9/13 5:04 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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My friend was on HRT and he was a freakin' monster on it. Just some Androgel.

So yeah, it's 'juicing', and would give a fighter an unfair advantage.

 

1/9/13 8:04 PM
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KFED4
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as obvious as an admission can be. Agree with the previous post that now Bisping has his excuse lined up... that being said i still think bisping wins this via decision
1/9/13 8:21 PM
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quick
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Well it is pretty common knowledge that Vitor was juiced to the gills for his first stint in the ufc and so his use of TRT shouldn't really come as that much of a surprise.
1/10/13 4:37 AM
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Chimp Strength
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chawkins - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

Take a careful look at the language and how it is used.

When people talk about "juicing" they're referring to raising one's T levels to supraphysiological levels - that is, levels greater than what a human body is supposed to have or produce - via the use of anabolid-androgenic steroids. If they weren't going above normal human levels, there'd be no reason to cry foul, right?

And in so doing, yes, "juicing" does enhance performance (if I had to nitpick, I'd point out that what they mainly enhance is recovery, which in turn enhances performance, but we can split those hairs another day).


When people talk about TRT, you have to remember what the "R" stands for - Replacement. TRT is a therapeutic technique meant to *replace* testosterone levels that have declined; not to elevate the body to supraphysiological levels, but to simply put them back to a healthy level. And in doing so, TRT can't really be said to be enhancing performance, but merely restoring it to what it used to be.

That's the difference.

Now, if you want to discuss whether athletes who are on TRT are *actually* on TRT anjd are *actually* restoring their hormone levels to their previous normal highs vs. merely claiming TRT as a cover for going supraphysiological, that's a real discussion that can be had.

Not sure whether you're serious or ignoring the facts.  Marquardt was on TRT yet was cut cause his levels were too high to compete.  Chael claimed TRT when his ratio was 16:1.  Standard levels for a normal human being, ie you or me, is 1:1.  Athletic commissions allow above this level, so users of TRT are only obliged to keep their levels within the acceptable ratios of the regulation athletic commission, 6:1 in some instances.  So I have no idea how you can think it's merely 'replacement'.  It's legal juicing, simple.

1/10/13 7:31 AM
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Y2JB
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PED cheat is on TRT shocker.
1/10/13 9:36 AM
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Lazer MMA
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Chimp Strength - 
chawkins - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

Take a careful look at the language and how it is used.

When people talk about "juicing" they're referring to raising one's T levels to supraphysiological levels - that is, levels greater than what a human body is supposed to have or produce - via the use of anabolid-androgenic steroids. If they weren't going above normal human levels, there'd be no reason to cry foul, right?

And in so doing, yes, "juicing" does enhance performance (if I had to nitpick, I'd point out that what they mainly enhance is recovery, which in turn enhances performance, but we can split those hairs another day).


When people talk about TRT, you have to remember what the "R" stands for - Replacement. TRT is a therapeutic technique meant to *replace* testosterone levels that have declined; not to elevate the body to supraphysiological levels, but to simply put them back to a healthy level. And in doing so, TRT can't really be said to be enhancing performance, but merely restoring it to what it used to be.

That's the difference.

Now, if you want to discuss whether athletes who are on TRT are *actually* on TRT anjd are *actually* restoring their hormone levels to their previous normal highs vs. merely claiming TRT as a cover for going supraphysiological, that's a real discussion that can be had.

Not sure whether you're serious or ignoring the facts.  Marquardt was on TRT yet was cut cause his levels were too high to compete.  Chael claimed TRT when his ratio was 16:1.  Standard levels for a normal human being, ie you or me, is 1:1.  Athletic commissions allow above this level, so users of TRT are only obliged to keep their levels within the acceptable ratios of the regulation athletic commission, 6:1 in some instances.  So I have no idea how you can think it's merely 'replacement'.  It's legal juicing, simple.



It's you who are ignoring the facts (again - on a bad roll) Chimp. Of course TRT can be abused duh. There are fighters on it that always monitor their levels and and with 'normal' limits and use it for health reasons. If they use it lke that it's not juicing.

Some people have higher than normal ratios so it should be cut to 3.5:1 IMO (that is VERY high and rare).

What's even more stupid (WORLD CLASS STUPID) is that you have one fighter after the next saying that 80 percent of the UFC roster is on the 'real juice', the last one being Stun Gun and not a peep do you hear from the UG!
1/10/13 9:37 AM
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Lazer MMA
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'are within normal limits' - sorry
1/10/13 9:39 AM
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zazen br
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Wow... LOL. What a terribly confusing and dodgy answer by Vitor. Just admit it already man. The vast majority of the guys are on the juice or at least on TRT so come on...
1/10/13 9:52 AM
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ortman166
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ObamaCare -
Wovito - 
JROTT -  This isn't the Olympics, I say let them all juice their tits off and let's see who's the best after that!

JUST BLEED! Phone Post

The obvious result is that allowing such a chemical advantage would preclude any "clean" fighters from making it to the highest levels.

This is not a good outcome.

and the wrong assumption here is that taking steroids makes you a good fighter

plenty of guys who have tested positive have gotten their asses whooped

anderson hit bonnar one time in the chest and he quit. he hasnt had a great career by any means and hes tested positive multiple times

big foot keeps getting beat down too

sonnen,leben etc... 

the list could go on and on

if multiple top 5 or champions had tested positive, id say you had a point.

 

If someone who is already an elite fighter tool steroids tho... Phone Post
1/10/13 9:53 AM
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Chimp Strength
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Lazer MMA - 
Chimp Strength - 
chawkins - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
chawkins - There's nothing wrong with TRT. It's not the same as "juicing".

What exactly is "juicing"?

I thought it was athletes using anabolic-androgenic steroids to enhance their performance. That's exactly what fighters who undergo TRT do.

Take a careful look at the language and how it is used.

When people talk about "juicing" they're referring to raising one's T levels to supraphysiological levels - that is, levels greater than what a human body is supposed to have or produce - via the use of anabolid-androgenic steroids. If they weren't going above normal human levels, there'd be no reason to cry foul, right?

And in so doing, yes, "juicing" does enhance performance (if I had to nitpick, I'd point out that what they mainly enhance is recovery, which in turn enhances performance, but we can split those hairs another day).


When people talk about TRT, you have to remember what the "R" stands for - Replacement. TRT is a therapeutic technique meant to *replace* testosterone levels that have declined; not to elevate the body to supraphysiological levels, but to simply put them back to a healthy level. And in doing so, TRT can't really be said to be enhancing performance, but merely restoring it to what it used to be.

That's the difference.

Now, if you want to discuss whether athletes who are on TRT are *actually* on TRT anjd are *actually* restoring their hormone levels to their previous normal highs vs. merely claiming TRT as a cover for going supraphysiological, that's a real discussion that can be had.

Not sure whether you're serious or ignoring the facts.  Marquardt was on TRT yet was cut cause his levels were too high to compete.  Chael claimed TRT when his ratio was 16:1.  Standard levels for a normal human being, ie you or me, is 1:1.  Athletic commissions allow above this level, so users of TRT are only obliged to keep their levels within the acceptable ratios of the regulation athletic commission, 6:1 in some instances.  So I have no idea how you can think it's merely 'replacement'.  It's legal juicing, simple.



It's you who are ignoring the facts (again - on a bad roll) Chimp. Of course TRT can be abused duh. There are fighters on it that always monitor their levels and and with 'normal' limits and use it for health reasons. If they use it lke that it's not juicing.

Some people have higher than normal ratios so it should be cut to 3.5:1 IMO (that is VERY high and rare).

What's even more stupid (WORLD CLASS STUPID) is that you have one fighter after the next saying that 80 percent of the UFC roster is on the 'real juice', the last one being Stun Gun and not a peep do you hear from the UG!

How am I ignoring the facts?  Is it not a fact that the acceptable ratio varies from athletic commission to athletic commission?  Yes it's true that there are fighters such as Hendo that are regulalrly tested to check their levels but, I have never seen a definition of 'normal' provided by these fighters, please point me in the right direction if you have a source for their definition as otherwise I can assume that you cannot say for certain what they mean by it.  I have made the assumption that to them 'normal' is within the regulated level which can be as high as 6:1.  So if you have an athlete training with a level as high as 6:1 then they are gaining an advantage over your average person with a 1:1 ratio.  The number of athletes that are 'juicing' is a separate issue.  So, to reiterate the point, what facts am I ignoring exactly?  Bearing in mind what I have just written to explain my position.

1/10/13 10:08 AM
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Lazer MMA
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Well that is VERY true about that definition to start with as far as I know. Further I believe that all TRT exempt fighters should need to test within 'normal human ranges' (not 6:1) and must be RANDOM TESTED as well; however, we'd ALL BE CHUMPS to not see that across the board random testing needs to be implemented. The 'REAL JUICE' (again which we're told time and again by fighters that 80 percent of the roster is using it) is how a body like a Reem's is even possible to create within such a short time period. It is a MUCH LARGER issue Chimp in whole. Basically, I'm tired of some guys following the rules getting shit on constantly when most all others are on stronger shit and the UG ignores them! That F'IN logic is from hunger!
1/10/13 10:20 AM
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Chimp Strength
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I wouldn't like to make a sweeping statement that people shouldn't be allowed to take TRT, but I'm certainly against a guy who should be in the twilight of his career taking it to prolong his competitiveness or someone who has wrecked their body through juicing.  I'm also against people taking illegal testostrone suppliments.  I think half of the problem is that the UFC probably fear what would happen to their sport if people were caught out.  I'm not sure what to think when people like Stun Gun come out with figures like 80% as they never provide any proof and I have no idea on a personal level.

1/10/13 8:10 PM
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3rdLion
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Here we go, Palhares just got popped, Vitor will be hoping he has got his cycle right. Phone Post

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