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UnderGround Forums >> Alvarez Contract Details, UFC TItle Shot, PPV Cut


1/10/13 8:47 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 01/10/13 8:51 AM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

1/10/13 8:51 AM
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CindyO
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MMALOGIC - 

The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.


Predictions of how this thing ends?

 

Cindy

1/10/13 9:16 AM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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QueenCityLurker -
Othello - 
chawkins - Is there an attorney in the house? If so, can you explain how Bellator can claim to be matching UFC's offer by offering PPV points, when Bellator doesn't *have* any PPV shows to give Eddie points from? It looks like bad faith, if I understand the meaning of the term.

PPV buys are theoretical. The amount each one sells fluctuates so much, how exactly could you put a dollar figure on them?

Easy. Law of averages.
If the UFC was smart, they would simply take an average viewership of ALL PPVs over the course of say 1, 3 or 5 years.
That becomes your baseline. Then you leverage your contract to state how much said fighter is guaranteed in PPV dollars for however many PPVs. They could even put in the contract that Eddie could fight on up to X amount of PPVs, but no less than one or two.
Then Bellator cannot match and it's game over.
Not so easy. UFC ppvs fluctuate so much that just using average is a crapshoot. Plus there are things like the global economy outside the control of the UFC that could affect ppv buys. If it were so easy the UFC would guarantee a baseline ppv amount, which bellator couldn't match, but it didn't. Phone Post
1/10/13 9:18 AM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post
1/10/13 9:57 AM
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Edited: 01/10/13 10:05 AM
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CindyO - 
MMALOGIC - 

The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.


Predictions of how this thing ends?

 

Cindy

 

I predict it wont be decided in court.

 

 

1/10/13 10:01 AM
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BrattMamley
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I love Eddie and always cheer for him, but isn't this contract a little much?

1/10/13 10:11 AM
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MMALOGIC
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.

1/10/13 11:08 AM
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Another Foob
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I guess I now have a better imagination for what "Anderson Silva Money" might be. Dang, I picked the wrong career. O_o
1/10/13 12:02 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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CindyO - 
MMALOGIC - 

The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.


Predictions of how this thing ends?

 

Cindy

 

I predict it wont be decided in court.

 

 

Easy prediction to make.

I made that same prediction a long time ago.

Tell us something more intuitive than just that it won't be going to court.

Sorry, but you're swinging the dick in this thread so it had better be with more force than others who aren't purporting to be as knowledgable. Phone Post
1/10/13 12:05 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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I mean, it's easy to say "This will not be settled in court, Eddie Alvarez will sign with UFC, Bellator can't afford this one"

I didn't need a poison pill to throw that one out there.

So, what do you know that we do not or what do you see differently based on your knowledge that tells us more as to how this plays out than my layman prediction noted above? Phone Post
1/10/13 2:34 PM
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Herbish1
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If I'm understanding the PPV cut deal correctly, Eddie stands to make $1.6M if he's on a million buy PPV. He's gonna wanna get on that Jones/Sonnen card.

1/10/13 2:43 PM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.


ok...

 

-explain to me what a poison pill and how it works in this context

 

-tell me exactly why bellator is required to match the number of ppv buys that the ufc could potentially offer\

 

-tell me specifically and exactly how a court would quantify the amount of damages eddie would be entitled to based on lost PPVs when 1) he is not guaranteed to be on one single ppv and 2) each ppv fluctuates dramatically in terms of buys

 

 

1/10/13 2:43 PM
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Edited: 01/10/13 2:44 PM
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...

1/10/13 2:49 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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TTT

1/10/13 5:32 PM
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MattyECB
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.


ok...

 

-explain to me what a poison pill and how it works in this context

 

-tell me exactly why bellator is required to match the number of ppv buys that the ufc could potentially offer\

 

-tell me specifically and exactly how a court would quantify the amount of damages eddie would be entitled to based on lost PPVs when 1) he is not guaranteed to be on one single ppv and 2) each ppv fluctuates dramatically in terms of buys

 

 


Forget statistical manipulations or even grabbing a central value, if they took the absolute lowest PPV grossing of the past X years, then figured out what % that would confer to Eddie, that value above and beyond Bellator's match would probably be a pretty good way of proving disparity.

PPV might fluctuate dramatically, but it maintains a consistent value above 0, which is the amount of PPV% it seems Bjorn is matching additional to his straight X/X money matches
1/10/13 5:33 PM
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MattyECB
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And Bellator needs to at least make an argument to match the amount of PPV buys UFC could offer, or a gross sum in similar quantity otherwise it will be unable to match the UFC's offer lol

That's the entire legal dispute going on right now
1/10/13 5:34 PM
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MattyECB
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... but that man seems to have no idea how to use the term poison pill
1/10/13 6:24 PM
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Qui4u2l odio
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How can BFC have a valid contract if they truly did just change the ufc on the contract to bellator when the ufc guarantees a fight on fox. Doesnt seem like it could be valid if they guarantee something they dont have Phone Post
1/10/13 6:53 PM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.


ok...

 

-explain to me what a poison pill and how it works in this context

 

-tell me exactly why bellator is required to match the number of ppv buys that the ufc could potentially offer\

 

-tell me specifically and exactly how a court would quantify the amount of damages eddie would be entitled to based on lost PPVs when 1) he is not guaranteed to be on one single ppv and 2) each ppv fluctuates dramatically in terms of buys

 

 


In professional sports, a poison pill is a component of a contract, which one team offers a player, that makes it difficult or impossible for another team (which has the right of first refusal) to match. While it can often refer to a salary structure or clause that would affect all teams equally, it has taken on a new specific meaning of a clause that has unbalanced impact. For example, in March 2006, the Minnesota Vikings offered Steve Hutchinson, an offensive guard with the Seattle Seahawks, a seven-year, $49 million contract of which $16 million was guaranteed. This contract offer had two poison pills in it. One was the salary structure, which would require the team to pay $13 million in the first year of the contract. That salary structure would apply to both teams equally, as the Seahawks would also have to pay $13 million in the first contract year, were they to match the offer. The second was a clause that required Hutchinson to be the highest paid player on the offensive line, or else the entire contract would be guaranteed. Since the Seahawks had another offensive lineman, Walter Jones, with a higher salary and the Vikings did not, this clause would have required the Seahawks to guarantee $49 million, and it effectively eliminated the Seahawks' opportunity to match the contract offer

In the Eddie Alvarez situation you have a Guaranteed fight on Fox... and an "intention to give eddie an immediate title shot in March on PPV" (the gsp/diaz card)

Per Luke Thomas who works for spike, he's saying bellator is making up the difference between Spike and Fox platform with other benefits.

Bellator is claiming they cant quantify ppv points or the ppv portion of the deal.

Eddie will argue he receieved an opportunity (not a guarantee) an opportunity to be on the march card which he couldnt take because of this legal situation.  They will have the ppv numbers on the GSP/Diaz card as a real world example to give the ppv portion of the deal a value when arguing in court.

Eddie will have a real world example of the value and bellator will have nothing because  they dont do ppv nor will they have done a ppv by that time.

The court will decide if the 2 offers are truly a match or not.  if bellator loses it will be devastating to their matching rights leverage for every fighter they have... and if they lose it opens the door for eddie to sue bellator for damages for missing out on the march ppv card (which could be worth roughly 1.3 million plus).

1/10/13 7:14 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke -  I mean, it's easy to say "This will not be settled in court, Eddie Alvarez will sign with UFC, Bellator can't afford this one"

I didn't need a poison pill to throw that one out there.

So, what do you know that we do not or what do you see differently based on your knowledge that tells us more as to how this plays out than my layman prediction noted above? Phone Post

if Bellator comes back and ups their offer I can see Eddie re-signing with them.  The debut on spike could be a blockbuster and spike decides to invest more and eddie sees there's more of future there... or it does very poorly and spike becomes even more desperate and gives him whatever he wants...  Rampage has his last fight but zuffa and he mend fences and sign a new deal giving spike no names to sign, etc...

These are unknowns.  My best guestimate is he'll end up in the UFC because i dont believe bellator will up their offer and they will settle on a release because I dont believe bellator wants this decided in court.... if they lose it will be devastating to their matching rights leverage on the rest of their fighters... and it opens a door for eddie to sue them for damages for missing out on the march ppv card as i explained above. 

Tyson nams lawyer got him out of a similar situation with bellator. 

Bellator has yet to win a case in court against any fighter they have legally threatened.  they use lawsuits to intimidate guys into doing what they want.  they want him to sign this contract because they cant really match the zuffa contract so they gave him a carrot and a stick. 

The carrot isnt big enough yet.

1/10/13 7:17 PM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.


ok...

 

-explain to me what a poison pill and how it works in this context

 

-tell me exactly why bellator is required to match the number of ppv buys that the ufc could potentially offer\

 

-tell me specifically and exactly how a court would quantify the amount of damages eddie would be entitled to based on lost PPVs when 1) he is not guaranteed to be on one single ppv and 2) each ppv fluctuates dramatically in terms of buys

 

 


Forget statistical manipulations or even grabbing a central value, if they took the absolute lowest PPV grossing of the past X years, then figured out what % that would confer to Eddie, that value above and beyond Bellator's match would probably be a pretty good way of proving disparity.

PPV might fluctuate dramatically, but it maintains a consistent value above 0, which is the amount of PPV% it seems Bjorn is matching additional to his straight X/X money matches

first of all, the contract doesnt require bellator to match the "buys" it just requires bellator to match the terms, eddie could have easily negotiated in the bellator contract that bellator match the buys, but he didnt...

 

secondly, regardless of past performance, there is 0 guarantee that eddie will ever be on a ppv or what those ppv's will do...sure, we have a good idea they will do more than 1, but you cant really base a contract on that...

think about it...put yourself in a judge's shoes..forget all these theories and possibilities or generalities...tell me exactly how you will determine what $ bellator must come up with to match eddie hypothetically getting on a ppv, and what those hypothetical buys will be

1/10/13 7:18 PM
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MattyECB - And Bellator needs to at least make an argument to match the amount of PPV buys UFC could offer, or a gross sum in similar quantity otherwise it will be unable to match the UFC's offer lol

That's the entire legal dispute going on right now

no, the whole dispute IMO turns on whether putting eddie on spike v. fox is considered a match

1/10/13 7:25 PM
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The "intention to give Eddie an Immediate title shot in MArch" on the GSP/Diaz card is nothing more than a poison pill.

Eddie now has a real world example (GSP/diaz ppv) he can use in court for the value of the ppv provision and/or a value of the damages he can sue bellator for keeping him off this card.

zuffa was never gonna give him an immediate title shot on the GSP card or ppv money.... that's why they didnt guarantee it... they included the "intention to do so" as a posion pill to give Alvarez and his team legal ammunition against bellator.

Dude you are using terminology and concepts you don't know the meaning of Phone Post

tell me which part you dont understand and Ill explain it to you.


ok...

 

-explain to me what a poison pill and how it works in this context

 

-tell me exactly why bellator is required to match the number of ppv buys that the ufc could potentially offer\

 

-tell me specifically and exactly how a court would quantify the amount of damages eddie would be entitled to based on lost PPVs when 1) he is not guaranteed to be on one single ppv and 2) each ppv fluctuates dramatically in terms of buys

 

 


In professional sports, a poison pill is a component of a contract, which one team offers a player, that makes it difficult or impossible for another team (which has the right of first refusal) to match. While it can often refer to a salary structure or clause that would affect all teams equally, it has taken on a new specific meaning of a clause that has unbalanced impact. For example, in March 2006, the Minnesota Vikings offered Steve Hutchinson, an offensive guard with the Seattle Seahawks, a seven-year, $49 million contract of which $16 million was guaranteed. This contract offer had two poison pills in it. One was the salary structure, which would require the team to pay $13 million in the first year of the contract. That salary structure would apply to both teams equally, as the Seahawks would also have to pay $13 million in the first contract year, were they to match the offer. The second was a clause that required Hutchinson to be the highest paid player on the offensive line, or else the entire contract would be guaranteed. Since the Seahawks had another offensive lineman, Walter Jones, with a higher salary and the Vikings did not, this clause would have required the Seahawks to guarantee $49 million, and it effectively eliminated the Seahawks' opportunity to match the contract offer

In the Eddie Alvarez situation you have a Guaranteed fight on Fox... and an "intention to give eddie an immediate title shot in March on PPV" (the gsp/diaz card)

Per Luke Thomas who works for spike, he's saying bellator is making up the difference between Spike and Fox platform with other benefits.

Bellator is claiming they cant quantify ppv points or the ppv portion of the deal.

Eddie will argue he receieved an opportunity (not a guarantee) an opportunity to be on the march card which he couldnt take because of this legal situation.  They will have the ppv numbers on the GSP/Diaz card as a real world example to give the ppv portion of the deal a value when arguing in court.

Eddie will have a real world example of the value and bellator will have nothing because  they dont do ppv nor will they have done a ppv by that time.

The court will decide if the 2 offers are truly a match or not.  if bellator loses it will be devastating to their matching rights leverage for every fighter they have... and if they lose it opens the door for eddie to sue bellator for damages for missing out on the march ppv card (which could be worth roughly 1.3 million plus).


so your argument is that whole reason the ufc gave eddie ppv points was just so bellator couldnt match? not because eddie asked for them? highly unlikely imo...if they wanted a true poison pill there would be an infinite number of different ways that the ufc could have structured the deal

 

and you keep using generalities re: these "real world examples" you are talking about...tell me, specifically how you quantify it? give me  a number.

1/10/13 7:45 PM
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NAAFS
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This is one of the most intelligently debated threads I've seen on the ug in a while Phone Post

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