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UnderGround Forums >> WarMachine accusing Lloyd Irvin of rape


1/10/13 4:26 PM
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YVES JOCKSTRAP
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Ttt Phone Post
1/10/13 4:27 PM
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randomposter - I should add that I am an attorney. I am certainly not suggesting that Irvin did not do the things that were alleged in the article. But an application of knowledge requires data. The article doesn't even put what Irvin said in quotes! Is this what he really said? Or is it "kind of what he said"?
The facts will come out. And then we can condemn. But many are awfully quick to call someone a rapist without waiting to hear the evidence. More convenient that way, to be sure.....but fair?

who called LI A RAPIST? ppl r just sayn he was involved in 1 ,point is it dont look good.

1/10/13 4:28 PM
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TUF
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Limp dick rape defense, no can offend.
1/10/13 4:30 PM
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MTH
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Edited: 01/10/13 4:34 PM
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It appears that Mr. Irvin was tried in a courtroom.  The result was an acquittal for him and guilty verdicts for others.

Assuming that's all true, then there is no dispute that (1) what happened was a gang rape, (2) Mr. Irvin was aware of it, witnessed it, and intended to participate or at least wished to appear to the rapists as if he intended to participate, and (3) Mr. Irvin could not and did not participate because he was unable to "get it up."

While I have no doubt there are women out there who willingly participate in sexual encounters only to claim rape later, our justice system has concluded that in Mr. Irvin's case, that is not what occured.  We also have no indication that this is what occured in the more recent parking garage situation with two of Mr. Irvin's male students allegedly raping a female student.

So nobody is discussing a consensual encounter that is later redefined as rape.  It is notable, however, that there always seems to be somebody who brings up "non-rapes" when actual rapes are being discussed, even when there are no facts to suggest that what occured wasn't really a rape.

Stay on point.

1/10/13 4:34 PM
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randomposter
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2JupitersTooMany - 
randomposter - I am going to write this, and then I'm gonna stop. I don't want to be associated in any way with the idea that Lloyd Irvin did or did not participate in, was present at, and/or didn't do anything to stop a gang rape. And I certainly don't want to be made into some kind of spokesman for that position.
I am only trying to get some of you to tap the brakes a second. Calling someone a rapist is serious business. I think each one of us, were we in that position, that is, having someone make that accusation, would ask that his accusers at least have all the facts. That's only fair.

I typed that he had a chance to speak in court.  He did.  You responded the way a condescending asshole does and you're getting the same response, from someone who is also an attorney.  He did not deny being present for an event that an actual jury classified as a rape. He's going to get crucified by the media and by normal people who won't accept that.  In this particular culture, there will be plenty of apologists by reason of personal loyalty or moral defect, but he won't get off so easy in the real world.


I wasn't trying to be a condescending asshole, as you say. But you have certainly managed the trick. I am surprised to hear an attorney stand up on the side of a newspaper article serving as immutable proof of anything.
The fact is, counselor, that you don't know a single thing about the facts except what is written in that article. You don't know how long he was at the party, where he was when the actual "raping" happened (other than to say that he appears to have been present for some part of it), or exactly what his conduct was or wasn't.
You are correct that this will be a great stain on Lloyd Irvin, if the article is correct. That is, of course, beside the point that I thought we were discussing, which is "Do we know enough to call the man a rapist, without knowing more?"
1/10/13 4:39 PM
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rockwell
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Billytk - Sorry but I can't accept Koppenhaver trying to take moral highground over anyone considering his past
I know he can at least get it up.
I've seen evidence.




*BEEEEP* Phone Post
1/10/13 4:40 PM
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judosmac
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In!
1/10/13 4:40 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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randomposter - 
2JupitersTooMany - 
randomposter - I am going to write this, and then I'm gonna stop. I don't want to be associated in any way with the idea that Lloyd Irvin did or did not participate in, was present at, and/or didn't do anything to stop a gang rape. And I certainly don't want to be made into some kind of spokesman for that position.
I am only trying to get some of you to tap the brakes a second. Calling someone a rapist is serious business. I think each one of us, were we in that position, that is, having someone make that accusation, would ask that his accusers at least have all the facts. That's only fair.

I typed that he had a chance to speak in court.  He did.  You responded the way a condescending asshole does and you're getting the same response, from someone who is also an attorney.  He did not deny being present for an event that an actual jury classified as a rape. He's going to get crucified by the media and by normal people who won't accept that.  In this particular culture, there will be plenty of apologists by reason of personal loyalty or moral defect, but he won't get off so easy in the real world.


I wasn't trying to be a condescending asshole, as you say. But you have certainly managed the trick. I am surprised to hear an attorney stand up on the side of a newspaper article serving as immutable proof of anything.
The fact is, counselor, that you don't know a single thing about the facts except what is written in that article. You don't know how long he was at the party, where he was when the actual "raping" happened (other than to say that he appears to have been present for some part of it), or exactly what his conduct was or wasn't.
You are correct that this will be a great stain on Lloyd Irvin, if the article is correct. That is, of course, beside the point that I thought we were discussing, which is "Do we know enough to call the man a rapist, without knowing more?"

Nobody is calling him a rapist, pay attention.

1/10/13 4:42 PM
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cheesesteak
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I'm not sure if this has been posted but here is another article about the 1990 case....





Verdict Delayed In Gang-rape Trial
April 21, 1990|By RONNIE CROCKER Staff Writer
NEWPORT NEWS -- The fates of two men charged in the alleged gang rape of a 17-year-old Hampton University student last fall will not be determined until at least Monday.

Circuit Judge Robert W. Curran dismissed a jury of six men and six women at 7 p.m. Friday after they deliberated about four hours on whether Terrence C. Gatling, 21, and Lloyd E. Irvin Jr., 20, are guilty of rape.



Gatling, who was a junior at HU at the time of the incident, and Irvin, who was a junior at Bowie State University in Maryland, are charged with raping an HU student who had been on campus about six weeks. Gatling also is charged with sodomy.

The alleged crime occurred during the night of Oct. 7 and the morning of Oct. 8 in Gatling's 20th-floor apartment in the River Park Tower complex.

Jurors sent out a note about 6:40 p.m. asking whether they could convict Gatling of a lesser offense. They made no reference to Irvin. Curran said prosecutors and defense attorneys would have to decide the question Monday morning before the jury comes back.

Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Aundria D. Foster said some of the possible lesser charges could include sexual battery or crimes against nature, which basically comprises consensual oral or anal sex.

Testimony in the two-day trial revealed that between seven and 10 men had oral sex and sexual intercourse with the woman, but the two defendants contended the woman was a willing participant.

One other man has been charged, and charges may be filed against several others based on the outcome of this trial, Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Richard C. Kerns said.

Foster argued Friday that the men had no respect for the young woman.

"It was mind over matter," she told jurors in her summation. "They didn't mind, and she didn't matter."

The alleged victim and the two accused men agreed on much of what happened Oct. 7. The group met outside the woman's dormitory room, and she went to eat with nine or 10 men she barely knew. The men were all either HU or Bowie State students.

Afterward, the group went to Gatling's apartment, where the alleged victim was still the only woman present. The stories diverge at that point.

The woman testified two men lured her into Gatling's bedroom, then attacked her. She said other men poured into the room and raped and sodomized her repeatedly. She said Gatling held her head and forced her to perform oral sex while Irvin had sexual intercourse with her.

Gatling and Irvin said one of the first men who had sex with the woman came out of the bedroom yelling, "She's a freak; she's a freak." Both said they took that to mean she was easily seduced and had loose morals.


Both men admitted they at least wanted to have sex with the woman and that she invited them to have sex with her. Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not.

Two defense witnesses said Thursday they looked into the room, saw bodies on the bed, and heard a woman encouraging the sexual activity with explicit comments.

Despite the contested facts, testimony from the two-day trial painted a disturbing picture. Attorneys on both sides agreed that the girl used poor judgment in going alone with men she barely knew, while the defendants expressed no remorse for what happened.

Foster questioned Gatling's reaction to learning that several men were having sex with a young woman in his bedroom.

"Did you say anything to him like, a man shouldn't be doing this?" Foster asked.

"No," Gatling replied.

"That was all right with you?" the prosecutor continued.

"Yes."

Irvin said that having sex with a "freak" was not one of his best ideas of fun, but he did not oppose it.

The only physical evidence presented by the state was the testimony of a doctor who examined the alleged victim at the emergency room. The doctor said the woman's lip was bruised and that her vagina was bruised and irritated more severely than someone who had had sex with just one person
1/10/13 4:42 PM
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Mark Hunter
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OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue.

Since we can't know, and Lloyd Irvin was not convicted, then perhaps this is a good time to wind this post down. I'm sure, if Lloyd Irvin could, he'd go back in time and handle that night differently. He can't . . . let's move on. Just a thought.
1/10/13 4:46 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue.

Since we can't know, and Lloyd Irvin was not convicted, then perhaps this is a good time to wind this post down. I'm sure, if Lloyd Irvin could, he'd go back in time and handle that night differently. He can't . . . let's move on. Just a thought.

A jury convicted his friends of rape and he was there, and now he has two students in jail for something remarkably similar. That we can know.  The details are probably lost now, and Lloyd would certainly say he'd "handle that night differently" as would anyone in this shitty position, but for God's sake, you think it's appropriate to just "move on?"

1/10/13 4:48 PM
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X_Rated
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randomposter -
2JupitersTooMany - 
randomposter - I am going to write this, and then I'm gonna stop. I don't want to be associated in any way with the idea that Lloyd Irvin did or did not participate in, was present at, and/or didn't do anything to stop a gang rape. And I certainly don't want to be made into some kind of spokesman for that position.
I am only trying to get some of you to tap the brakes a second. Calling someone a rapist is serious business. I think each one of us, were we in that position, that is, having someone make that accusation, would ask that his accusers at least have all the facts. That's only fair.

I typed that he had a chance to speak in court.  He did.  You responded the way a condescending asshole does and you're getting the same response, from someone who is also an attorney.  He did not deny being present for an event that an actual jury classified as a rape. He's going to get crucified by the media and by normal people who won't accept that.  In this particular culture, there will be plenty of apologists by reason of personal loyalty or moral defect, but he won't get off so easy in the real world.


I wasn't trying to be a condescending asshole, as you say. But you have certainly managed the trick. I am surprised to hear an attorney stand up on the side of a newspaper article serving as immutable proof of anything.
The fact is, counselor, that you don't know a single thing about the facts except what is written in that article. You don't know how long he was at the party, where he was when the actual "raping" happened (other than to say that he appears to have been present for some part of it), or exactly what his conduct was or wasn't.
You are correct that this will be a great stain on Lloyd Irvin, if the article is correct. That is, of course, beside the point that I thought we were discussing, which is "Do we know enough to call the man a rapist, without knowing more?"
None of the concerns you are raising are important. He was present when that girl had sex with a bunch of other dudes and he would have also had sex with her if he could have. He also didn't dissuade anyone else from having sex with her.

You don't need to know the facts of the case beyond the ones already stated to conclude he was very very lucky to escape from that trial without doing time. Phone Post
1/10/13 4:48 PM
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Submissable
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2Jupes is one of the few in here with his head on straight.

1/10/13 4:55 PM
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Letibleu
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Anyone remember the home invasion thing at Lloyds house with Brandon Vera a few years back?

1/10/13 4:56 PM
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Ray Elbe
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Im not gonna comment on the rape issues, but I will say Master Lloyd has changed lives through sharing marketing secrets and is a successful business mentor, and coach. Phone Post
1/10/13 4:56 PM
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Kings21
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DAVID H - 
Timothyk - Do you really think this girl went over to hang out with a bunch of dudes, and not have sex with any of them? Do you know how many girls have trains run on them? Or like to be hit while fucked? Or lie about rape to soothe parent anger?

Let me guess, no means yes to you.

I dated a girl for a few months and one night we were drunk at my house. Her friend was passed out in my room and we wanted to fuck so we went downstairs. As we started foolin around she turned to me and said "I want you to rape me". It freaked me out so I just kinda backed away and said we'd talk about it in the morning.

Morning came and neither of us brought it up again and I doubt she even remembered saying it. Anyways a few months later we broke up and she came over one day and started telling me how her friend (a guy) watched his friend rape her at the beach. I didnt believe it was an actual rape. Maybe it was but I doubt it.

Anyways my point is that those kinds of girls DO exist and false rape accusations happen. I'm not trying to defend rapists and I think that guys that rape girls should have their cocks cut off and suffer an eternity of having big cock shoved up their ass but to just dismiss the fact that some girls like it rough and actually want to be "raped" is just silly.
1/10/13 5:02 PM
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Twostep
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LOL at the defense attorneys coming in trying to get a client. Lloyd ain't gonna hire you off the underground.
1/10/13 5:11 PM
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Bentleysuper8
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Edited: 01/10/13 5:11 PM
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Jason Reinhardt -  i have heard Lloyd is a good man today as a MAN, (not a college kid) I sure hope it's not true. But if it is, i try and look at how Lloyd leads his lie now, as opposed to some college "party kid".

There's a Freudian slip if I ever saw one.
1/10/13 5:12 PM
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kid chaos
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higherprimate718 - holy fuck. this is gonna be so bad for jiu jitsu
I seriously doubt it Phone Post
1/10/13 5:15 PM
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mdavid01
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I now understand why Li's statement was so reserved and full of psuedo legal speak nonsense. It's odd that two of his students were caught up in similar behavior, maybe it's just a numbers game as he has so many students...but it's odd enough that I'd be reluctant to have my daughter train at any of his schools.
Has anyone confirmed this is the same Lloyd Irvin?
Are his statements/testimony publicly available?
1/10/13 5:16 PM
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Obie1FaShobie
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Phone Post
1/10/13 5:22 PM
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mmaattorney
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Wow!!!!! Phone Post
1/10/13 5:22 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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mmaattorney -  Wow!!!!! Phone Post

Crap, another attorney.

1/10/13 5:26 PM
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Another Foob
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mdavid01 - I now understand why Li's statement was so reserved and full of psuedo legal speak nonsense. It's odd that two of his students were caught up in similar behavior, maybe it's just a numbers game as he has so many students...but it's odd enough that I'd be reluctant to have my daughter train at any of his schools.
Has anyone confirmed this is the same Lloyd Irvin?
Are his statements/testimony publicly available?

I don't want to join a lynch mob, but I have a little info to offer. I work for a background check company, so out of curiosity I looked up his name to see if his age matched (surprisingly it was not listed anywhere else online).

There is a Lloyd E. Irvin who is the right age and lives 10 miles from his academy, and has professional boxing, wrestling and cut man licenses. That person has a criminal record listing, but it is expunged, so I have no details. Earlier in the thread somebody posted a link to an article on bloodyelbow. That article had some pretty incriminating info. It's hard to believe the person in question is not THE Lloyd Irvin.
1/10/13 5:38 PM
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kid chaos
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higherprimate718 -
kid chaos - 
higherprimate718 - holy fuck. this is gonna be so bad for jiu jitsu
I seriously doubt it Phone Post

you think this isint gonna be blown up in the media?! "Do mma fighters rape?". Some ignorant ass headline line that
They aren't MMA fighters. I just can't see it getting too out of hand with the media. Bringing up a 20 year old story for loyd.
But the other two POS I don't know Phone Post

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