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UnderGround Forums >> WarMachine accusing Lloyd Irvin of rape


1/11/13 9:48 PM
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Kostakio
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RickStorm -

It appears Timothyk has been froze from vote downs

With all due respect, that is stupid. His opinion is moronic but it's also his and he's entitled to it as long as he's not being disrespectful, which I don't think he was. C'mon, this voting system is not a good idea. Phone Post
1/11/13 10:38 PM
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mdavid01
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supercan your post is unbelievably honest, the type of post that makes this forum great. Mentoring young martial artists toward acting with honor and treating women with respect demonstrates excellent character.
1/11/13 11:32 PM
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Epa
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supercan, I lurk a lot here, but I had to log in to vote you up for that post. The way you handled the situation and stuck with it to help your wife shows a lot of character.

That was probably hard to post, but that's the kind of post that might change some young guy's perspective a little bit. So it was a good thing to do.
1/12/13 12:15 AM
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WoodenPupa
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I think we’re all wondering how Lloyd pulled off the Houdini act in the courtroom. We all know he’s guilty, and that his explanation is bullshit. But why did it succeed? This is my attempted explanation, and obviously it’s conjecture. But I’m conjecturing for a reason, because I think Lloyd’s limp-dick strategy could not have worked unless certain facts were in place in the courtroom.

Cliff Notes: Basically what I’m saying is that Lloyd’s strategy wasn’t planned ahead of time, before the matter went to trial, but instead a chess move played against his buddy (Terrence Gatling, whom the jury convicted of sodomy) once Gatling’s strategy was ascertained.

Again, I’m not a lawyer, so of course I could be way off. But I hate it when creeps escape justice, and when things don’t make sense to me I try to figure them out. So here’s my theory:

Since this was all before DNA evidence became standard in the courtroom, the lack of material evidence SPECIFICALLY implicating Lloyd in the rape forced the spotlight onto motive.

Now, claiming he wasn't in the room at all probably wouldn't have worked, since both the girl and at least one other defendant testified he was.

Lloyd must have figured that lying about being in the room wasn't worth it, because if the jury doesn't BUY that story, they WILL place him at the scene of the crime---and if he LIES about not being there, it must be because he's guilty of rape.

So Lloyd bypasses that gamble by admitting to being in the room, thereby avoiding being painted as a liar off the bat. But the problem is, his reason for being there must be the same as everyone else's: to have sex with her. To deny THAT, while admitting to being in the room, would have been implausible. So enter the limp dick defense.

Now this defense might be shot down if BOTH Gatlin AND the girl testify that Lloyd did have sex with her. But ONLY the girl testified that Lloyd did. So my guess is that Gatlin, trying to be a "loyal friend", said that he didn't see Lloyd having sex with her, but only that he saw him in the room. And he (Gatlin) admitted to having sex with her, expecting Lloyd to do the same, on the less sophisticated gambit that if EVERYONE ADMITTED to having sex with her, it would look good for the defense's case.

Lloyd's limp dick defense can now work. Since Gatlin says he didn't see Lloyd having sex, Lloyd runs with this testimony and explains WHY Gatlin didn't see him doing so.

Since the jury had no physical evidence indicating who did specifically what to the girl, testimony was key. Lloyd surely realized that if the jury thought rape or "crimes against nature" was what in fact happened, they would find anyone admitting to sexual contact would be guilty by default.

So Lloyd's limp-dick defense would work almost automatically, provided that no one besides the girl testified to seeing him have sex with her. Her testimony alone couldn't work against anybody in particular unless they admitted to sexual contact. Since the doctor testified that there was evidence of sexual contact beyond what a single person would do, then multiple people clearly DID.

Gatlin, like his convicted buddies, figured they couldn't escape this fact, and were better off admitting to it while painting a consensual picture. But Lloyd capitalized on this move in a way Gatlin never thought possible.

That's my best guess as to what happened in the courtroom. At the very least, something very similar to it. Indisputably, Lloyd played the jury AND Gatlin, by playing a move that ONLY one person could play. Two limp-dick defenses wouldn’t have worked, nor would have two denials on ANY basis have worked. Classic prisoner’s dilemma gambit turning out well for the evil guy.
1/12/13 12:16 AM
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WoodenPupa
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What's really insidious about Lloyd's limp noodle defense is that he imagines its effectiveness in the way that sociopaths/psychopaths do.

He clearly IMAGINES that, in the court of public opinion, his story about erection failure will be taken as evidence that, deep down, he had a problem with what was going on.

Now some people might think that since Irvin plainly testified that he *wanted* to have sex with her, he can't possibly think his limp-noodle defense will have "deep down good guy" implications.

But this is just the way robotic sickos like Lloyd operate. They use language to confuse people, to have their cake and eat it too.

Since he testified that he "tried" to have sex with her, he creates the illusion that he didn't think anything was morally wrong with the circumstances.

But since he *couldn't* have sex with her, he can't be guilty of rape by definition, since no contact was made.

But the *reason* he couldn't get it up is supposed to mean that he DID have a problem with the situation.

So Lloyd is and isn't guilty, does AND doesn't take responsibility, did AND didn’t have a problem with what was going on, all at the same time. Which component he emphasizes will depend on who's asking the questions and the context of the conversation.

You can bet your ass that throughout the entire affair, from preliminary questioning to conversations with friends and all the way up to the moment of testifying, Lloyd emphasized whichever aspect was convenient to the questioning.
1/12/13 12:18 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Edited: 01/12/13 12:20 AM
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edit
1/12/13 12:21 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Epa - supercan, I lurk a lot here, but I had to log in to vote you up for that post. The way you handled the situation and stuck with it to help your wife shows a lot of character.

That was probably hard to post, but that's the kind of post that might change some young guy's perspective a little bit. So it was a good thing to do.

Agreed, good point, and huge props to Supercan. It shows that people can overcome harm done early in their lives too.

I have a stake in this kind of outlook because someone close to me was raped, and she went on to become the most principled, strong yet kind person I've ever known.

Thanks for your story Supercan.
1/12/13 12:30 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Some people I think have in mind that it was possible that Lloyd really did have erectile dysfunction.

It's possible in the trivial sense. What really happened is that he did rape her, along with Gatling. The girl testified that Gatling held her head and had oral sex, while Lloyd raped her.

If she weren't sure of this, she wouldn't have testified to it. The people she wasn't sure about, she couldn't and didn't implicate with certainty. She testified that Lloyd DID rape her because it was something she remembered with certainty.
1/12/13 12:32 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Kostakio - 
RickStorm -

It appears Timothyk has been froze from vote downs

With all due respect, that is stupid. His opinion is moronic but it's also his and he's entitled to it as long as he's not being disrespectful, which I don't think he was. C'mon, this voting system is not a good idea. Phone Post

Totally agree. I'm bewildered that some people take it seriously. I personally don't have problems keeping track of who the good posters are.
1/12/13 1:12 AM
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WoodenPupa
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"We have an amazing sex life. However, simulated violence and abuse is no longer part of it. And, no, we don't just do missionary."

This part is what grabbed me about your post Supercan. I had a girlfriend once who had incredible imagination to go along with her looks. I never thought role playing would be fun until I met her.

At first her lust to be controlled was satisfied through professor-cheerleader fantasies, which we'd act out (not like a script w/costumes, but improvising stuff that would crack us up and turn us on too). But then she started asking me to do things like choke her and hold a knife to her throat. I'd never done this stuff before because it never appealed to me, and no girl had ever asked me.

She kept asking as time went by and finally I relented to choke one night. I squeezed with one hand but it just felt wrong, and it turned me off. I kept the squeeze on until she came, with her trying to squeeze my hand to make the choke tighter the whole time.

Afterwards she asked me if I liked it, and I said not really, because I believed in free will, and that a beautiful mind is a free one. Choking and all that stuff reminded me not of free will, but slavery and ugliness. I'm disgusted by rape and violence and told her I doubted I could ever really get turned on by those kinds of fantasies.

Over the next few weeks things changed. I loved her so much that I compromised and said that maybe one day I could choke her in bed the way she liked, or hold a knife to her throat, but that I wasn't there yet. I was scared she'd leave me because I wasn't making her happy in bed, so I agreed to mentally work on "getting there."

I knew she had been abused but she played a very good "I'm over that" game. Little did I know that her requests for violence meant she still hadn't overcome what had happened to her. Our relationship went south and never recovered, and I learned a big lesson. I heard recently she wasn't doing so well, and that makes me pretty sad.
1/12/13 1:30 AM
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WoodenPupa
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TartanTopTeamsHeroinWhore -  Respect to Supercan. Not only do I respect your honesty and integrity but your story is enlightening also. I've had similar situations where girls want rough things done and deep down wondered why because I figured they cant really be enjoying it.

Anyway, the next time a situation like that arises I will take your approach rather than just play along. Phone Post

Damn, seems like lots of people have had the same experience.
1/12/13 2:06 AM
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Eyeamthe001
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Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post
1/12/13 2:07 AM
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Eyeamthe001
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*half Phone Post
1/12/13 2:10 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Eyeamthe001 - Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post
That's what those years are there for? I thought they were there for having some consensual sex, getting a little independence, maybe experimenting with LSD, but I'm from the Midwest admittedly. Phone Post
1/12/13 2:28 AM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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Eyeamthe001 - Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post
I'm 21.
Do I fuck up? Yes.
Do I fuck drunk minors with my buddies? No. Phone Post
1/12/13 2:32 AM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Eyeamthe001 -  Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post

I find the fact that he's attempting to spin-control the situation by registering LloydIrvinRape.com and issuing 'Lloyd Irvin Rape' Seminar news releases to be repulsive, and indicitive of an intelligent man with no ethics.

 

The kind of man who would be able to identify an 'Attempted Rape' loophole and lie to fit his criminal behavior through that loophole.

 

I hope this ends with 'Master' Irvin destitute and shamed.

1/12/13 3:34 AM
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burner22
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Eyeamthe001 - Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post
Oh your 20's are for raping drunk girls? Really? Idiot. And where, pray tell, is this proof that Lloyd has changed oh so much?
Supercan, much respect bro.
Woodenpapa, your theory makes a lot of sense IMO Phone Post
1/12/13 4:19 AM
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TenOfSwords
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Paul Daley will realign this twit's facial features big time when he gets the chance.

1/12/13 5:34 AM
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Fedoral Crime
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And it's Irvin now, going for the rape choke. Phone Post
1/12/13 6:01 AM
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WoodenPupa
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burner22 - 
Eyeamthe001 - Damn ya'll need to chill he was 20 I'm sure have of the posters aren't even old enough to see a rated R movie. People fuck up when they're young that's what those years are there for. If he did do this its obvious that he has made huge steps forward to where he now... So lets talk about what relevant, the present. Phone Post
Oh your 20's are for raping drunk girls? Really? Idiot. And where, pray tell, is this proof that Lloyd has changed oh so much?
Supercan, much respect bro.
Woodenpapa, your theory makes a lot of sense IMO Phone Post

Thank you, and thanks for reading.

I'm done fine-combing this thing, but one last tidbit.

There was this claim in one of the first articles, from April 20th:

"Gatling and Irvin do not deny having sex with the woman, attorney Ron Smith told the six men and six women jurors at the outset of the trial"

and then this in an article the following day, April 21st:

"Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not."

So either the first newspaper report was wrong, or the attorney misspoke the first time, or Lloyd changed his story a day later.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lloyd really did admit it the first time around and then justified his change of story by claiming embarrassment at not being able to get erect.

That would be consistent with the "everybody get on the same page, there's no sense in denying sex happened" story I've theorized Gatling subscribed to. So maybe Lloyd went along with that until he and his attorney realized that if Gatling committed, Lloyd could change his story and suddenly claim he never had sex with her at all, but was embarrassed about not getting hard and that was why he didn't deny it at first.

Anyway, all speculation. Lloyd will have to confront this stuff one way or the other. If this was a different Lloyd in this story, he would have said so immediately and come out right away to save his business, which should fail pretty quickly. That much is for sure.
1/12/13 6:05 AM
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TheHaunted2
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Ive been out of this thread for a while. Is it worth the 16 page read???? Phone Post
1/12/13 11:08 AM
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Timothyk
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Edited: 01/12/13 11:08 AM
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Okay folks, Flame Away. I was a pretty baked and could not quite word my thoughts quite right. Get out all your pitchforks. Get ready to throw your stones. I am sure none of you have every done anything scandalous behind closed doors. With the way it was presented I have my doubts about forming a lynch mob. I do not think from what I read that it seemed as clear cut as many of you make it sound. Certainly forgiving this man will not work. It is not like he had lead a clean life, of helping others since. I will not visit this thread again. Have a good day everyone.
1/12/13 11:29 AM
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Bat21
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mmavixen - 
whadafykumeanitstaken - 
Timothyk - I think bish came over with the intent to fuck, got tipsy, one thing lead to another, no one ever said no, and at the end of the event she called rape to calm the parents.

Can Green names be banned for proving to be pieces of shit?

There was a rape convictiin you fucking moron. This wasn't a case like your friends where there was no rape. It went to trial and was proven she was rapes by 7the people. You don't get to have an opiniin at that point. Facts are facts.

So if your mom got gang raped by 77 people and there was a conviction your comments would be "ehh, bitch had the intent to get laid and she let it get out of control.

Gtfo you fucking dirtbag.

Interesting to see how Kirik handles a green name. This guy has no business being pat of thia site after these comments about a girl who suffered a gang rape, suffered a trial, gained a convictiin, and does not need assholes like TimK spewing bullshit.

My soster was raped when I was young. I remeber the trial. I remember lots of things. Fuck anyime making light of a convicted rape case.

 

Agree.  While there are cases where women manufacture lies and were not actually violated, I can assure you that if there was a trial and a subsequent conviction, the girl was obviously violated wihout her consent. No district attorney will ever file charges on a flimsy rape case.  If anything, the evidence has to be inconrtrovertible.

 

 

I'm very sorry about your sister.  I hope she was able to get past it and live a healthy, a happy life.


.

1/12/13 11:31 AM
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Bat21
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2JupitersTooMany - 

If you go outside, you're basically asking for it bro


Ah Jupes, you always manage to make me laugh, even when there's really nothing to laugh at. Voted up, sir!

1/12/13 11:39 AM
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dezflag
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Did Lloyd train Sombo/Sambo with convicted criminal Mark Densberger?

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