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UnderGround Forums >> WarMachine accusing Lloyd Irvin of rape


1/10/13 5:38 PM
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kid chaos
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higherprimate718 -
kid chaos - 
higherprimate718 - holy fuck. this is gonna be so bad for jiu jitsu
I seriously doubt it Phone Post

you think this isint gonna be blown up in the media?! "Do mma fighters rape?". Some ignorant ass headline line that
They aren't MMA fighters. I just can't see it getting too out of hand with the media. Bringing up a 20 year old story for loyd.
But the other two POS I don't know Phone Post
1/10/13 5:46 PM
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cheesesteak
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Another Foob - 
mdavid01 - I now understand why Li's statement was so reserved and full of psuedo legal speak nonsense. It's odd that two of his students were caught up in similar behavior, maybe it's just a numbers game as he has so many students...but it's odd enough that I'd be reluctant to have my daughter train at any of his schools.
Has anyone confirmed this is the same Lloyd Irvin?
Are his statements/testimony publicly available?

I don't want to join a lynch mob, but I have a little info to offer. I work for a background check company, so out of curiosity I looked up his name to see if his age matched (surprisingly it was not listed anywhere else online).

There is a Lloyd E. Irvin who is the right age and lives 10 miles from his academy, and has professional boxing, wrestling and cut man licenses. That person has a criminal record listing, but it is expunged, so I have no details. Earlier in the thread somebody posted a link to an article on bloodyelbow. That article had some pretty incriminating info. It's hard to believe the person in question is not THE Lloyd Irvin.

good investigation skills foob. It is seeming to be apparent that it is the Lloyd we all know. Looks like he may be needing to pawn his fancy italian shoes soon.
1/10/13 6:03 PM
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TexDeuce
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Bentleysuper8 -
Jason Reinhardt -  i have heard Lloyd is a good man today as a MAN, (not a college kid) I sure hope it's not true. But if it is, i try and look at how Lloyd leads his lie now, as opposed to some college "party kid".

There's a Freudian slip if I ever saw one.
Lolol Phone Post
1/10/13 6:04 PM
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WoodenPupa
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2JupitersTooMany - 
Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue.

Since we can't know, and Lloyd Irvin was not convicted, then perhaps this is a good time to wind this post down. I'm sure, if Lloyd Irvin could, he'd go back in time and handle that night differently. He can't . . . let's move on. Just a thought.

A jury convicted his friends of rape and he was there, and now he has two students in jail for something remarkably similar. That we can know.  The details are probably lost now, and Lloyd would certainly say he'd "handle that night differently" as would anyone in this shitty position, but for God's sake, you think it's appropriate to just "move on?"


What does this mean in layman's terms: "Although the jurors found Gatling guilty of forcible sodomy, there was not enough evidence to convict either man of rape."

So it looks to me like nobody was convicted of rape. Is there another article I'm missing?

Anyway, this stuff is very confusing to a layman. What does "forcible sodomy" mean if not rape?

And then later in the article it says:

""I feel the girl was raped," said Bessie Singleton, another juror. "But the room where this happened was dark, and with all that was going on, it was unclear who was doing what."

What a nightmare the legal world must be. The jurors agree that a rape took place, but can't agree on who to blame?

I guess that is related to the fact that, "at least seven men" allegedly participated, but only Gatlin and Irvin went on trial? That doesn't look good for Lloyd; I wonder how he ended up being one of the merely 2 out of the entire 7 that got accused.
1/10/13 6:06 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Crap. What I mean is, out of 7 alleged, how he became one of the two that went on trial.
1/10/13 6:10 PM
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MTH
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Edited: 01/10/13 6:11 PM
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WoodenPupa - Anyway, this stuff is very confusing to a layman. What does "forcible sodomy" mean if not rape?

And then later in the article it says:

. . . . I wonder how he ended up being one of the merely 2 out of the entire 7 that got accused.

 


Generally, "rape" refers to forcible vaginal penetration, whereas "sodomy" refers to forcible penetration elsewhere.  I'm sure Wikipedia has articles that provide more technical distinctions if you care to look.

 

There could be a few explanations for why the other five participants weren't tried like Irvin and Gatling.  The most likely is that they pleaded guilty, so no trial was required for them. 

1/10/13 6:16 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Just some general thoughts---

"Rape" in non-legal terms, to me, means continuing with the act of sex after the girl says no. Doesn't this converge on the legal definition in most states as well?

The point being, it doesn't matter how "freaky" any girl is, or what she requests, PRIOR to her saying no. In other words, she can change her mind at ANY point just before or even during the act. Once she says no, you have to get off. There's no interpretation allowed.

And if she doesn't verbally say "no" but you are being pushed off, even a little, you have to ask if everything is alright, in order to clarify what is happening and what she wants.
1/10/13 6:18 PM
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WoodenPupa
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MTH - 
WoodenPupa - Anyway, this stuff is very confusing to a layman. What does "forcible sodomy" mean if not rape?

And then later in the article it says:

. . . . I wonder how he ended up being one of the merely 2 out of the entire 7 that got accused.

 


Generally, "rape" refers to forcible vaginal penetration, whereas "sodomy" refers to forcible penetration elsewhere.  I'm sure Wikipedia has articles that provide more technical distinctions if you care to look.

 

There could be a few explanations for why the other five participants weren't tried like Irvin and Gatling.  The most likely is that they pleaded guilty, so no trial was required for them. 


Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks, that makes sense.
1/10/13 6:28 PM
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WoodenPupa
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What I don't understand is the usefulness of the distinction "forcible sodomy" from "rape." The orifice matters?
1/10/13 6:40 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Right. Which kind of makes it a holdover from puritan ethics (the "crimes against nature" term), not that this really matters in the case in question.
1/10/13 6:42 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Wouldn't Lloyd at least be charged with something like "attempted rape"? I just can't process the limp dick defense.

I can't really process law at all though, which is one reason I stayed out of trouble in my teens and early 20's.
1/10/13 6:55 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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In typing out of my ass on a phone but I don't think there is such thing, unlike in the case of myrder, as a charge for attempted rape. I was thinking an abetting charge would be tagged on but who knows. Phone Post
1/10/13 7:09 PM
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WoodenPupa
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I got this hit from Virginia law code:

" § 18.2-67.5. Attempted rape, forcible sodomy, object sexual penetration, aggravated sexual battery, and sexual battery.

A. An attempt to commit rape, forcible sodomy, or inanimate or animate object sexual penetration shall be punishable as a Class 4 felony.

B. An attempt to commit aggravated sexual battery shall be a felony punishable as a Class 6 felony.

C. An attempt to commit sexual battery is a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(1981, c. 397; 1993, c. 549.)

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-67.5
1/10/13 7:11 PM
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WoodenPupa
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The noodle-defense maybe confused the jurors as to an application of attempted force? Maybe he said he didn't even touch her. But still.
1/10/13 7:13 PM
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DanEzra
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Edited: 01/10/13 7:14 PM
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MTH - 
WoodenPupa - Anyway, this stuff is very confusing to a layman. What does "forcible sodomy" mean if not rape?

And then later in the article it says:

. . . . I wonder how he ended up being one of the merely 2 out of the entire 7 that got accused.

 

 

Generally, "rape" refers to forcible vaginal penetration, whereas "sodomy" refers to forcible penetration elsewhere.  I'm sure Wikipedia has articles that provide more technical distinctions if you care to look.

 

 

There could be a few explanations for why the other five participants weren't tried like Irvin and Gatling.  The most likely is that they pleaded guilty, so no trial was required for them. 

 

This is the current criminal code, not sure what it was in 1990.

§ 18.2-61. Rape.

A. If any person has sexual intercourse with a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in sexual intercourse with any other person and such act is accomplished (i) against the complaining witness's will, by force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another person; or (ii) through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness; or (iii) with a child under age 13 as the victim, he or she shall be guilty of rape.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-61

==========================================================

§ 18.2-67.1. Forcible sodomy.

A. An accused shall be guilty of forcible sodomy if he or she engages in cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, or anal intercourse with a complaining witness whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person, and

1. The complaining witness is less than 13 years of age; or

2. The act is accomplished against the will of the complaining witness, by force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another person, or through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-67.1

 
1/10/13 7:20 PM
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WoodenPupa
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It looks like we nearly converged on the same code Ezra. So it looks like 18.2-67.5 includes an "attempted" distinction, but I won't pretend to understand it in proper legal context.
1/10/13 7:21 PM
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SinCityHustler
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Bootsy Collins - 
Timothyk - 
2JupitersTooMany - 
Timothyk - Do you really think this girl went over to hang out with a bunch of dudes, and not have sex with any of them? Do you know how many girls have trains run on them? Or like to be hit while fucked? Or lie about rape to soothe parent anger?

what a gentleman


My fiance thinks I am quite so.

If she knows what's good for her....

Actually a fiance' is a man.  So he's engaged to marry a man, (a he).  

1/10/13 7:33 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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WoodenPupa - It looks like we nearly converged on the same code Ezra. So it looks like 18.2-67.5 includes an "attempted" distinction, but I won't pretend to understand it in proper legal context.
Looks like I have no idea what I'm talking about. Phone Post
1/10/13 7:35 PM
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Stache
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Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue.

Since we can't know, and Lloyd Irvin was not convicted, then perhaps this is a good time to wind this post down. I'm sure, if Lloyd Irvin could, he'd go back in time and handle that night differently. He can't . . . let's move on. Just a thought.

Since when is one required to be present at a crime to pass judgement on it? Isn't that what judges, juries and the legal system, in general, are for?

I thought lawyers were trained in logic.
1/10/13 7:37 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Sometimes a football comes out of left field...whattya gonna do? *Sopranos shrug*
1/10/13 7:54 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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superCalo - If it was done in the dark but lyold irvin the black man got accused, guy shouldnt smile in those circumstances Phone Post
lol Phone Post
1/10/13 8:11 PM
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cheesesteak
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Madrugadao - I appreciate playing devils advocate is not popular here but I am a little unclear on what is going on.

Was he tried for a crime and found innocent?
Or, was he just innocent of rape but guilty of something else?

from the articles I have read it seems that he was tied for a crime and found innocent. However, the reason he was innocent seems to be because when he was up at bat at the gang rape he couldn't perform....This is what I am gathering so far...I think it would be wise for Lloyd to make a statement and clear this up if this is incorrect....
1/10/13 8:30 PM
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cheesesteak
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He obviously has his eyes on his twitter and FB like a hawk. I doubt he will be sleeping anytime soon trying to moderate that shit...

Dude it's out there. Why don't you just come out and explain what happened instead of everyone in the mma/bjj community wondering if you have a gang raping mentality. Make a statement you turkey! You can't just sit there erasing negative comments of your twitter forever and hope we all forget tomorrow...It's serious shit and you need to explain if you want to continue to Don Lepre peoples asses at seminars and strut around in your expensive suits flossin and shit
1/10/13 8:32 PM
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TylerA
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Mark Hunter - OK, just one more attorney to chime in. How about this: None of us were in the room that night, so none of us on this thread have a clue what happened. Maybe the girl was telling the whole truth . . . maybe she wasn't. Same for the guys, including Lloyd Irvin. Bottom line: we have no clue.

Since we can't know, and Lloyd Irvin was not convicted, then perhaps this is a good time to wind this post down. I'm sure, if Lloyd Irvin could, he'd go back in time and handle that night differently. He can't . . . let's move on. Just a thought.

Have to agree. No one knows for sure what happened, unfortunately. People lie all the time so either side could be telling the truth. Plus, it never ceases to surprise me what intoxicated people are capable of.
1/10/13 8:41 PM
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JasonSB
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I'm confused as well. So they say he didn't participate (limpness), but was at least there during the gang rape? Correct.? If that's the case isn't this the same as saying he was aware there was a gang rape (a crime) taking place @ the residence where he was @. If so does the legal system not have something to charge him with since he was aware of a crime taking place even if he himself claimed to not have taken part in any of the criminal acts. I'm super confused.

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