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1/13/13 9:22 AM
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Soup and Beer
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Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

1/13/13 9:31 AM
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Gendai Budo
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Soup and Beer -

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

This Phone Post
1/13/13 10:13 AM
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Immaculata
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Dumb thread. He's an excellent official looking out for the fighters.
1/13/13 10:16 AM
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6ULDV8
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Kirik - 

BJM was well within the rules in his direction. The giy literally wrote the book on the rules in MMA.


Indeed.

1/13/13 10:17 AM
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AK-BJJ
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Just to add to the argument... Sometimes a fighters hands are open for defense... To catch or slap away a punch. If boxers didn't have huge gloves you'd see their hands like that all the time from that distance.

So while I understand the eye poke concern, I almost felt like he was taking away a little bit of the guys defense. I don't think it ended up mattering though...
1/13/13 10:18 AM
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AyyAnt
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TartanTopTeamsHeroinWhore -
Vinnie G -
sincitydc - 
KZTT_FawkingxD - Can't remember if it was him or Dan mirgiliota but when jones fought belfort, they yelled at jones about his fingers Phone Post
It was Big John. I remember in that fight when Belfort threw the kick while jones was crawling towards him he goes "you're playing the game" or something like that. Phone Post

Herb Dean said it to Paul Buentello, but close!
Wrong. Big John said it to JBJ at the start if the fight when he crawled towards Belfort and Belfort through a kick at his head. When JBJ looked at Big John in protest he said "well if you wanna play those games..." - in other words tough shit. Good call IMO Phone Post
Herb dean said it to Paul buentello too genius... Phone Post
1/13/13 10:20 AM
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BuddyRevell
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
ausgepicht - 

Well, I think he was concerned about eye pokes. 


This, he's just trying to prevent eye pokes.

 

1/13/13 11:07 AM
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sincitydc
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Andersons_Chin -
Vinnie G -
sincitydc - 
KZTT_FawkingxD - Can't remember if it was him or Dan mirgiliota but when jones fought belfort, they yelled at jones about his fingers Phone Post
It was Big John. I remember in that fight when Belfort threw the kick while jones was crawling towards him he goes "you're playing the game" or something like that. Phone Post

Herb Dean said it to Paul Buentello, but close!
Both actually. Phone Post
Thank you lol. Guy was self high fiving himself a little prematurely. Phone Post
1/13/13 11:25 AM
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illini89i
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Soup and Beer -

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

Great post. Vote up when I get to a pc Phone Post
1/13/13 11:45 AM
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gabemadrid
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What a stupid thread doesn't anyone know about MMA history? Phone Post
1/13/13 11:46 AM
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gabemadrid
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Soup and Beer -

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

Exactly Phone Post
1/13/13 11:50 AM
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Vinnie G
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TartanTopTeamsHeroinWhore -
Vinnie G -
sincitydc - 
KZTT_FawkingxD - Can't remember if it was him or Dan mirgiliota but when jones fought belfort, they yelled at jones about his fingers Phone Post
It was Big John. I remember in that fight when Belfort threw the kick while jones was crawling towards him he goes "you're playing the game" or something like that. Phone Post

Herb Dean said it to Paul Buentello, but close!
Wrong. Big John said it to JBJ at the start if the fight when he crawled towards Belfort and Belfort through a kick at his head. When JBJ looked at Big John in protest he said "well if you wanna play those games..." - in other words tough shit. Good call IMO Phone Post
Not wrong. Herb said it to Buentello during the Kongo fight. Buentello was putting his hand on the mat to avoid knees from Kongo in a clinch

We are both right it seems. Phone Post
1/13/13 12:00 PM
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morse
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Soup and Beer - 

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?


Voted up

1/13/13 12:06 PM
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Bootsy Collins
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illini89i - 
Kirik -

BJM was well within the rules in his direction. The giy literally wrote the book on the rules in MMA.

Exactly, BJM, along with New Jersey director Larry Hazzard wrote the "unified rules" as we know them. Phone Post

Larry Hazard was the man. Sucked to see him get screwed over by the boxing elders
1/13/13 12:32 PM
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RileyPust
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sincitydc - 
KZTT_FawkingxD - Can't remember if it was him or Dan mirgiliota but when jones fought belfort, they yelled at jones about his fingers Phone Post
It was Big John. I remember in that fight when Belfort threw the kick while jones was crawling towards him he goes "you're playing the game" or something like that. Phone Post

I was glad when that happened. If you wanna exploit the rules, I have no problem with that. But it's only a foul if he gets kicked in the face, and he dodged it. So either be willing to take the kick or don't put yourself in stupid positions like that.

And fighters shouldn't be allowed to spread their fingers and hold them in front their opponent's face. Jones was doing this to Rampage repeatedly. He likes to have his arm fully extended and he tracks his opponents' faces with hand so they won't close the distance for fear of getting poked in the eye.

Whatever, I guess I like BJM MORE for the same reasons that you guys like him less.
1/13/13 1:29 PM
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damaebushi
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John was instrumental in saving the sport from extinction by working with others to devise rules that would be acceptable, go in front of athletic commissions to lobby for the sport, even went to court on behalf of MMA if I am not mistaken.  He knows more about the rules than probably anybody.  I can also say that every time I have seen John or been around him, he has treated absolutely everybody extraordinarily well and never been anything but kind, patient, and generous.

Everyone has a right to his/her opinion and maybe others have had different experiences or observations, but the above is just my $.02.

 

Respectfully:

Fred

 

1/13/13 1:42 PM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor
FightToLive - He is a dickhead also!

If by dickhead you mean one of the nicest most approachable and accomodating men in the sport, then by all means, I agree.

1/13/13 1:52 PM
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Soul Gravy
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The problem is that no pawing was occurring when BJM gave the warning.
1/13/13 1:52 PM
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Anderson P Sonnen
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illini89i -
Soup and Beer -

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

Great post. Vote up when I get to a pc Phone Post
. Phone Post
1/13/13 2:10 PM
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illini89i
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Soul Gravy - The problem is that no pawing was occurring when BJM gave the warning.
He had his left arm out full extended and fingers out. What is so hard to understand about this. Phone Post
1/13/13 2:18 PM
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Dougie
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Eye pokes imo.

1/13/13 2:25 PM
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Dingleberry Flopdoink The 3rd
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If BJM hadn't made his own rules as he went, there would probably have been a death in the early UFCs Phone Post
1/13/13 2:42 PM
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SmackyBear
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Probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I don't like the preemptive demands by BJM.

I know he was instrumental in the creation of the unified rules, but those rules are codified and should be enforced as written. I'd say the same thing if James Naismith or Walter Camp were referees for basketball or football, respectively.

Keeping your fingers extended from your hand is not a foul, and as such should not be forbidden. If BJM had told Staring "watch your fingers" as he did to Cormier when he was on top and had his fingers in Staring's face that would be different. Warning a competitor to be careful and that you'll hold them responsible if their fingers poke their opponent's eyes is significantly different from demanding they stop doing something that isn't a foul.
1/13/13 3:17 PM
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Lurkdaddy316
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These guys are pro's, they know what they're doing when they stick an open hand out there. It happens far to often and whether it's a written rule or not I'm all for the refs putting a stop to it.
1/13/13 3:20 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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I'd actually like him to do the next Koscheck fight


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