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UnderGround Forums >> Does Big John McCarthy make


1/13/13 3:56 PM
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jasonhightower
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
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Well, I think he was concerned about eye pokes. 


This, he's just trying to prevent eye pokes.

I understand that but if your not throwing strikes why the fuck would you be required to close your fist? Phone Post
1/13/13 4:27 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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Since "eye gouging of any kind" is a Foul, the ref has the obligation at his sole discretion and judgement to determine if an outstretched, "pawing" hand has a high-probability of causing said Foul. Further, the ref can and should verbally warn a fighter to cease and desist that which is dangerously close to a Foul. Referee job Number One is protecting the health of the fighters. Eye pokes can influence or stop a fight altogether, not to mention stop an entire MMA career.

Good job by BJM.
1/13/13 5:40 PM
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RileyPust
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jasonhightower - 
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
ausgepicht - 

Well, I think he was concerned about eye pokes. 


This, he's just trying to prevent eye pokes.

I understand that but if your not throwing strikes why the fuck would you be required to close your fist? Phone Post

Watch Jones' fight against Rampage.
1/13/13 6:19 PM
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KingGo
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Stea1th - there is 0 reason to "check distance" with using open fingers. It's dangerous and we've seen a LOT of people be poked in the eye because of it.

Koshcheck comes to mind Phone Post
1/13/13 6:19 PM
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KingGo
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RileyPust -
jasonhightower - 
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
ausgepicht - 

Well, I think he was concerned about eye pokes. 


This, he's just trying to prevent eye pokes.

I understand that but if your not throwing strikes why the fuck would you be required to close your fist? Phone Post

Watch Jones' fight against Rampage.
Or koshcheck against pierce Phone Post
1/13/13 6:44 PM
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Dirk Bevlin
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ShawnTheBadger - Since "eye gouging of any kind" is a Foul, the ref has the obligation at his sole discretion and judgement to determine if an outstretched, "pawing" hand has a high-probability of causing said Foul. Further, the ref can and should verbally warn a fighter to cease and desist that which is dangerously close to a Foul. Referee job Number One is protecting the health of the fighters. Eye pokes can influence or stop a fight altogether, not to mention stop an entire MMA career.

Good job by BJM.
An good post by STB.

I can't stand watching these guys trying to exploit holes in the rules. They need to make extended/open hands illegal. Phone Post
1/13/13 8:45 PM
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SJCOTTON
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Good call by big John Phone Post
1/13/13 8:56 PM
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AK-BJJ
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This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"
1/13/13 9:20 PM
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RileyPust
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AK-BJJ - This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"

It's an exploitation of the rules, simple as that.
1/13/13 9:30 PM
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Clarence Parents
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Immaculata - Dumb thread. He's an excellent official looking out for the fighters.

This.. pointless thread.
1/13/13 9:50 PM
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youarewhatiswrong
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Is it possible that this particular fighter has had a history of eye poking?
1/13/13 10:45 PM
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Drunkenirishfc
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What the fuck there's people that don't like big John?? Phone Post
1/13/13 11:10 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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AK-BJJ - This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"

You're simply splitting hairs on what verbal command will get the job done (and quickly) inside the octagon. When the Ref decides there is clear and imminent danger of such a nasty Foul as an eye-poke, he should command that the dangerous activity cease and desist.

The Ref will tell a fighter not to knee the head of a downed opponent in advance of the potential strike when it looks close to happening. The Opponent bent down but with a hand on the mat. Happens all the time, and this situation is no different.
1/14/13 1:07 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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jasonhightower - 
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
ausgepicht - 

Well, I think he was concerned about eye pokes. 


This, he's just trying to prevent eye pokes.

I understand that but if your not throwing strikes why the fuck would you be required to close your fist? Phone Post

eye pokes.
1/14/13 1:15 AM
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Galanis
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When I was reading this thread I was like what the fuck. It felt like an alternate reality. No you can't paw at your opponent with outstretched fingers. Big John wrote the damn rules son! Wow the people who watch this shit these days. Jesus

1/14/13 2:55 AM
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ArmbarVictim
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illini89i -
Soup and Beer -

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?

Great post. Vote up when I get to a pc Phone Post
Big John is a great ref, Fuck this shitty disrespectful thread Phone Post
1/14/13 7:01 AM
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AK-BJJ
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ShawnTheBadger - 
AK-BJJ - This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"

You're simply splitting hairs on what verbal command will get the job done (and quickly) inside the octagon. When the Ref decides there is clear and imminent danger of such a nasty Foul as an eye-poke, he should command that the dangerous activity cease and desist.

The Ref will tell a fighter not to knee the head of a downed opponent in advance of the potential strike when it looks close to happening. The Opponent bent down but with a hand on the mat. Happens all the time, and this situation is no different.

Telling somebody not to foul and telling somebody to change their defensive stance is not splitting hairs but if that's what you think that's fine.

In your own example of a referee warning the ref says not to knee the head of a downed opponent... Is that the same as telling the guy "put your leg down... put your leg down and more forward!"? Of course not.

Like I said in an earlier post, it's not illegal to use that front hand to catch or parry a punch... in fact it's good technique.

I also wanna add, I like BJM... he's a nice guy, so I'm just arguing this one instance independently and not saying he does a bad job or discrediting what he's done for the sport.
1/14/13 7:25 AM
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Chaz Johnson
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Kirik -

BJM was well within the rules in his direction. The giy literally wrote the book on the rules in MMA.

Thank you BJM deserves all the attention because he has been there for ever.

On the JBJ crawl that is a total rule bend. A ref has all the right to call a fighter on how they fight. That is the whole point.

There is no carbon copy I-robot refs Phone Post
1/14/13 10:14 AM
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ShawnTheBadger
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AK-BJJ - 
ShawnTheBadger - 
AK-BJJ - This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"

You're simply splitting hairs on what verbal command will get the job done (and quickly) inside the octagon. When the Ref decides there is clear and imminent danger of such a nasty Foul as an eye-poke, he should command that the dangerous activity cease and desist.

The Ref will tell a fighter not to knee the head of a downed opponent in advance of the potential strike when it looks close to happening. The Opponent bent down but with a hand on the mat. Happens all the time, and this situation is no different.

Telling somebody not to foul and telling somebody to change their defensive stance is not splitting hairs but if that's what you think that's fine.

In your own example of a referee warning the ref says not to knee the head of a downed opponent... Is that the same as telling the guy "put your leg down... put your leg down and more forward!"? Of course not.

Like I said in an earlier post, it's not illegal to use that front hand to catch or parry a punch... in fact it's good technique.

I also wanna add, I like BJM... he's a nice guy, so I'm just arguing this one instance independently and not saying he does a bad job or discrediting what he's done for the sport.

It is splitting hairs when YOU are trying to decide what language BJM uses to warn fighters about imminent dangerous Fouls. "watch your fingers vs close your hand." Same exact results either way. Protect the opponent from an eye-poke.

It is not illegal to put your hand on your opponents face when you are in his guard. Good technique to smother the opponent and keep him from breathing. It IS an imminent Foul if those fingers look like they are going to...drum roll...poke the guy in the eyes. Then the ref will in fact tell him to get his damn hand out of there, BEFORE the Foul occurs.
1/14/13 4:39 PM
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AK-BJJ
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ShawnTheBadger - 
AK-BJJ - 
ShawnTheBadger - 
AK-BJJ - This place is amazing sometimes... Now you wanna ban things that are "close to a foul"??

Inside leg kicks are "close to a foul"... Kneeing a downed opponents shoulder or body is "close to a foul"... Punching the side of the head is close to a foul, and you know what... punching the face is close to punching the side of the head so lets ban that too.

"Don't throw that knee he's almost down! That's dangerously close to a foul so don't do that!"

You guys understand we're watching cage fights right? Either something is legal or it's not legal... "close to a foul" does not exist... And if you care about fighters safety you should want things black and white, always enforced the same so people understand what they can and can't do... It's like some of you want more of the One FC kicking a downed opponent confusion all over the place.

If a ref wants to warn a guy in that situation it should've been "watch your fingers... don't poke the eyes" NOT "CLOSE YOUR FINGERS! CLOSE YOUR FINGERS NOW!"

You're simply splitting hairs on what verbal command will get the job done (and quickly) inside the octagon. When the Ref decides there is clear and imminent danger of such a nasty Foul as an eye-poke, he should command that the dangerous activity cease and desist.

The Ref will tell a fighter not to knee the head of a downed opponent in advance of the potential strike when it looks close to happening. The Opponent bent down but with a hand on the mat. Happens all the time, and this situation is no different.

Telling somebody not to foul and telling somebody to change their defensive stance is not splitting hairs but if that's what you think that's fine.

In your own example of a referee warning the ref says not to knee the head of a downed opponent... Is that the same as telling the guy "put your leg down... put your leg down and more forward!"? Of course not.

Like I said in an earlier post, it's not illegal to use that front hand to catch or parry a punch... in fact it's good technique.

I also wanna add, I like BJM... he's a nice guy, so I'm just arguing this one instance independently and not saying he does a bad job or discrediting what he's done for the sport.

It is splitting hairs when YOU are trying to decide what language BJM uses to warn fighters about imminent dangerous Fouls. "watch your fingers vs close your hand." Same exact results either way. Protect the opponent from an eye-poke.

It is not illegal to put your hand on your opponents face when you are in his guard. Good technique to smother the opponent and keep him from breathing. It IS an imminent Foul if those fingers look like they are going to...drum roll...poke the guy in the eyes. Then the ref will in fact tell him to get his damn hand out of there, BEFORE the Foul occurs.

That's a great example... Does the ref make the fighter close his hand? The answer is no... He tells him not to put his fingers in his eyes. You know why? Because a fighter is allowed to have his hand open but he's not allowed to poke a fighter in the eyes.
1/14/13 5:08 PM
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Another Foob
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I'm stunned to see people hating on BJM. That wasn't the first time I've seen a ref tell a fighter to keep their hands closed. There's no good reason to have your hands open in a fist fight unless you're grappling or doing an open hand technique (which I don't remember ever seeing in MMA).

Never mind eye pokes, it's also a good way to get some broken fingers. Too bad Paul Buentello didn't listen. :)
1/14/13 5:10 PM
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Another Foob
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Soup and Beer - 

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?


Voted up.
1/14/13 5:10 PM
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Another Foob
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Soup and Beer - 

Retarded thread is retarded.  Unless you have never seen MMA at all, it should be immediately obvious why a ref would tell a fighter who is pawing with an open hand to keep his fingers closed. 

In the past it had become a  technique exploiting a loophole in the rules to eyepoke.  Liddell did it a lot, Shields, and quite a few others that I cant remember off the top of my head.  After you eye poke the opponent like that, if the ref even notices it, all that happens is they get a couple of minutes to recover and you get a mild warning from the ref.  Then as the fight continues you have the advantage as the opponents vision is still likely impaired.  I would much prefer the ref stop it before it even happens.

And as far as the incident with JBJ, Jones was exploiting the rules to crawl on his hands and knees to the opponent to close the distance without danger of getting struck.  The rule is there to protect a downed opponent, not to gain an advantage as a method of fighting.  I loved it when Big John told Jones that.  MMA is supposed to simulate a real fight while adding rules to protect a fighter's safety.  When was the last time you saw a street fight where a guy was crawling on his hands and knees towards an opponent?


Voted up.
1/14/13 5:14 PM
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JOESONDO
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Pessimist_Pete -  Totally changed the outcome of the fight imro Phone Post

Damn straight it did! Staring was holding out the hand to tell Cormier to STOP. Without it Cormier just moved in for the kill. Totally changed the outcome.
1/14/13 5:31 PM
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john joe
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Dirk Bevlin -  My question is why does anyone guage distance with their fingers out anyway?

What good does it do except hopefully "accidentally" poke your opponent in the eye?

If it's not illegal, it should be. Phone Post

experienced strikers frequently do it; the extra 2 - 4 inches of distance-gauging with fingers as opposed to closed fist can be a big difference. Consider that a proper slip is meant to evade a strike by millimeters not by miles. Small distances can make a difference to the experienced user;

and with open fingers the hand is also more articulate if you need to transition into a parry, underhook etc. Or at least, feels more articulate.

Dion was clearly gauging with the left and looking to land heavy with the right; he wasnt looking to use the left in an aggressive way; it was his antennae

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