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UnderGround Forums >> keenan's family urging him to leave lloyd


1/21/13 12:40 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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then don't let them get away with it. Take it Yelp, Google Places, create a blogspot to report all of this and share it on your facebook! 

1/21/13 12:54 PM
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billyball2
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nogidavid - 

marcos avellan just posted this on facebook:

 

I'm sick to my stomach watching black belt instructors casting stones at a prominent instructor that is going through a scandal. I'm sick to my stomach because of the disgusting hypocrisy.
How is it a hypocrisy? Because many of these men I know personally. I know their habits. Almost none of them have the moral authority to be casting these stones. As the Bible says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

All these instructors are talking about how the instructor being stoned created a negative culture that resulted in the scandal. These instructors talk about how they use the martial arts to make "better people", and integrity, and honor, etc. But these same guys have their own skeletons and immoral behaviors.

For instance, one such instructor posted on facebook and cast his stone, talking about culture building, integrity, etc. but every time I've seen him at an event out of town, he is ordering hookers to his room while his wife is back at home watching multiple children by herself. Perhaps this is his own personal demon... but no, he uses the martial arts to influence his instructors/students to join in on this culture as well. So much for "integrity" and making "better people" with your martial arts culture. Using your position as an instructor to promote infidelity and prostitution isn't exactly what I consider a positive martial arts culture - and that same person is currently on a moral crusade to stone to death another instructor. I forgot to mention he is BIG publicly on family values.

I can list hypocrisy after hypocrisy about all these men stepping up to jump in on an execution.

I have NEVER said anything before - and it always weighed on my conscience. It is hard to say this and be taken seriously because of all the hypocrites in my industry, but I did walk out of being an engineer to pursue martial arts full time because I love the direct access I had to help people, face to face, using martial arts. As such, I hold myself to a serious standard - I am a leader and role model 24 hours a day... not just when I'm in front of my students in class. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, I don't cheat on my wife or children (we are a family, a unit), I don't act violently, I preach peace, I preach non-violence, and the times I have messed up when I was younger, I have made those moments public so that others could learn from my past mistakes - and I have not repeated them. Nobody is perfect - but I strive to be. I don't do anything that I wouldn't do in front of my children.

My detractors say I only care about money because I am a successful business man. That is their only basis of saying such a thing because my actions have consistently showed otherwise.
I am so dedicated to my mission as a martial arts instructor to help people achieve more of themselves, that I have bought two homes - one for my full time fighters and another for several staff members. All these men and women are drug tested, can't drink alcohol, and live an honest and professional lifestyle.

Furthermore, none of my athletes use illegal performance enhancing drugs - I want them to win as men or women. I don't care about the excuse, "Everybody else is doing it so it is a level playing field..." We are above that. Many of these instructors throwing stones teach their students how to cycle roids and win via unethical manners - but then they are going to talk about honor and integrity and respect.

My fighters are all taught to live with honor and respect - because their leader lives as such. I don't just speak it - I live it.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned? Maybe whoring behind your wife's back is a "character" developing action. Maybe juicing up your fighters to "win" is honorable. I can accept this, perhaps I'm a dying breed - perhaps my concept of honor and integrity is wrong. Perhaps honor is talking about character and then lying to those that love you.

I'm sick of all of this. I really am. I am very depressed today to see how people I used to respect all picked up stones in an attempt to metaphorically kill a man that they once proudly called a friend - all in the name of their "conscience" and "character". If one of them is truly without sin, then I hope their aim is true... the rest of them just better hope they aren't one day tied to the post and on the receiving end of a lynch mob of stone throwers.

Now I am a grown man and realize most people cheat on their wives and husbands - and that is cool with me. Everybody should be able to live as they wish - but if you are one of those people, I don't think you have the moral authority to be calling anyone out on their character or integrity.

One thing did cheer me up though, I saw someone I mentored write this on their wall today: "I strive to be more than a coach, I am a Mentor."

I believed him. It made me feel better.


What a read.

For what it's worth, I believe that Avellan is the honorable guy that he paints himself out to be. I think he genuinely bought into the concept of using the martial arts and martial values as a way to succeed and achieve some kind of human perfection.

Unfortunately the pipe dream of human perfection never lasts.

We now run into a situation where the man he modeled himself after and idolizes (LI) turns out to be a flawed person. Not only is he flawed, but some of his students are following in his flawed footsteps.

Waking up to a round earth after you've been convinced for 30 years that it's flat can be a sobering experience.

I applaud Avellan for the difficult path he's laid for himself, but I suspect that his life is going to be full of disappointment.

Humans are not perfect, so it's very likely that at least some of the people he put up in houses will slip and have a glass of wine with dinner, smoke a joint with friends, or do a cycle of roids.

Whatever standard he uses to measure living "an honest and professional lifestyle" will likely cause some people to fall short.

That's the problem with totally buying in to the cult. The "true believers" are actually trying to walk an impossible line that even their leader can't fucking do.

I hope this guy stops posting on the internet for a little while.

Take a little time and reflect on things.

Re-assess goals and reset expectations.

1/21/13 1:10 PM
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CaptainBurma
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How the fuck is cheating on your wife with hookers even in the same ball park as being involved in gang rape of a minor? That's like saying you shoplifted, so you're just like Lee Murray.
1/21/13 1:23 PM
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no-gi_JAMES420
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^^^ Fuckin exxxaaacccttttllllyyyyyyyyyy ^^^
1/21/13 1:25 PM
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kevinchhay
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What's up with the sense of self entitlement? I came from a good family of lawyer and psychologist my father owns 16 houses but you won't hear me talking about it!

MMA is the sport that I love but I'm already a winner! I don't have to show off my possessions to make myself feel better!

I was talk to always be humble and Martial Arts and I did not care about what Championships I won because it was part of training....

That's why many haven't heard of me before UG Mob vetted incident

A word of advice to Avellan, Bible says the meek shall inherit the world!

Nakapan also has history see you lost against Matt Hughes by only 2 points at Grapplers Quest! We always beat top Lloyd Irvin guys in competition that's why I was dumbfounded when he joined the trashy loudmouth school!

My student got an ad from Crazy 88 that said " Learn Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or just how to beat people up!"

I have a lot of history in sport and we flew down Pat Miletich when he was the winningest UFC coach before Greg Jackson!l

You will never hear us talking about will you beat this fighter or that fighter in a negative context! Phone Post
1/21/13 1:33 PM
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kying418
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billyball2 - 
nogidavid - 

marcos avellan just posted this on facebook:

 

I'm sick to my stomach watching black belt instructors casting stones at a prominent instructor that is going through a scandal. I'm sick to my stomach because of the disgusting hypocrisy.
How is it a hypocrisy? Because many of these men I know personally. I know their habits. Almost none of them have the moral authority to be casting these stones. As the Bible says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

All these instructors are talking about how the instructor being stoned created a negative culture that resulted in the scandal. These instructors talk about how they use the martial arts to make "better people", and integrity, and honor, etc. But these same guys have their own skeletons and immoral behaviors.

For instance, one such instructor posted on facebook and cast his stone, talking about culture building, integrity, etc. but every time I've seen him at an event out of town, he is ordering hookers to his room while his wife is back at home watching multiple children by herself. Perhaps this is his own personal demon... but no, he uses the martial arts to influence his instructors/students to join in on this culture as well. So much for "integrity" and making "better people" with your martial arts culture. Using your position as an instructor to promote infidelity and prostitution isn't exactly what I consider a positive martial arts culture - and that same person is currently on a moral crusade to stone to death another instructor. I forgot to mention he is BIG publicly on family values.

I can list hypocrisy after hypocrisy about all these men stepping up to jump in on an execution.

I have NEVER said anything before - and it always weighed on my conscience. It is hard to say this and be taken seriously because of all the hypocrites in my industry, but I did walk out of being an engineer to pursue martial arts full time because I love the direct access I had to help people, face to face, using martial arts. As such, I hold myself to a serious standard - I am a leader and role model 24 hours a day... not just when I'm in front of my students in class. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, I don't cheat on my wife or children (we are a family, a unit), I don't act violently, I preach peace, I preach non-violence, and the times I have messed up when I was younger, I have made those moments public so that others could learn from my past mistakes - and I have not repeated them. Nobody is perfect - but I strive to be. I don't do anything that I wouldn't do in front of my children.

My detractors say I only care about money because I am a successful business man. That is their only basis of saying such a thing because my actions have consistently showed otherwise.
I am so dedicated to my mission as a martial arts instructor to help people achieve more of themselves, that I have bought two homes - one for my full time fighters and another for several staff members. All these men and women are drug tested, can't drink alcohol, and live an honest and professional lifestyle.

Furthermore, none of my athletes use illegal performance enhancing drugs - I want them to win as men or women. I don't care about the excuse, "Everybody else is doing it so it is a level playing field..." We are above that. Many of these instructors throwing stones teach their students how to cycle roids and win via unethical manners - but then they are going to talk about honor and integrity and respect.

My fighters are all taught to live with honor and respect - because their leader lives as such. I don't just speak it - I live it.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned? Maybe whoring behind your wife's back is a "character" developing action. Maybe juicing up your fighters to "win" is honorable. I can accept this, perhaps I'm a dying breed - perhaps my concept of honor and integrity is wrong. Perhaps honor is talking about character and then lying to those that love you.

I'm sick of all of this. I really am. I am very depressed today to see how people I used to respect all picked up stones in an attempt to metaphorically kill a man that they once proudly called a friend - all in the name of their "conscience" and "character". If one of them is truly without sin, then I hope their aim is true... the rest of them just better hope they aren't one day tied to the post and on the receiving end of a lynch mob of stone throwers.

Now I am a grown man and realize most people cheat on their wives and husbands - and that is cool with me. Everybody should be able to live as they wish - but if you are one of those people, I don't think you have the moral authority to be calling anyone out on their character or integrity.

One thing did cheer me up though, I saw someone I mentored write this on their wall today: "I strive to be more than a coach, I am a Mentor."

I believed him. It made me feel better.


What a read.

For what it's worth, I believe that Avellan is the honorable guy that he paints himself out to be. I think he genuinely bought into the concept of using the martial arts and martial values as a way to succeed and achieve some kind of human perfection.

Unfortunately the pipe dream of human perfection never lasts.

We now run into a situation where the man he modeled himself after and idolizes (LI) turns out to be a flawed person. Not only is he flawed, but some of his students are following in his flawed footsteps.

Waking up to a round earth after you've been convinced for 30 years that it's flat can be a sobering experience.

I applaud Avellan for the difficult path he's laid for himself, but I suspect that his life is going to be full of disappointment.

Humans are not perfect, so it's very likely that at least some of the people he put up in houses will slip and have a glass of wine with dinner, smoke a joint with friends, or do a cycle of roids.

Whatever standard he uses to measure living "an honest and professional lifestyle" will likely cause some people to fall short.

That's the problem with totally buying in to the cult. The "true believers" are actually trying to walk an impossible line that even their leader can't fucking do.

I hope this guy stops posting on the internet for a little while.

Take a little time and reflect on things.

Re-assess goals and reset expectations.


Billyball2- what an awesome post.
1/21/13 1:39 PM
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time traveling 12er
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Edited: 01/21/13 2:14 PM
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To people supporting Lloyd Irvin:


LLoyd Irvin says he had sex with her at this event. He then says he couldn't get it up. Either way the medical examiner says she has injuries and behavior consistent with someone who has had intercourse against her will. She says it was against her will. The court jury says it was against her will.
She was a minor so consent is irrelevant. This is what is out there.


Given that, these are not understandable responses:


It's nobody's business.

Well it kind of is now that it's made the news again. Two of his students gang raped a third student, and he's a public figure with lots of affiliated schools where people may be students. He also happens to have a rapey past.


That was a long time ago.

Yeah, but the dickish behavior associated with it is happening right now. Also rape is not one of those things people brush off. It's not a "phase".


She was a whore.

It's still not ok to rape a whore.


She wasn't raped, she just got buyers remorse after being a slut.

The medical examiner, the jury, and the victim did not agree with that. The evidence didn't agree with that. Plus she was not an adult so not even legally able to give consent.


People also do bad things (not rape) so they shouldn't talk.

Unless they're also rapists I think it's fair to say people have good standing to criticize someone for raping or attempting to participate in what turned out to be a rape. Sleeping with a whore isn't on the same level as participating in a gang-rape to most people. Yes, yes, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But at the same time people can't just ignore something as serious as this.


You weren't there.

Yeah, neither were you. So I guess neither of us is qualified to have an opinion about all this, but yet here we are.


He's done a lot for me and a lot of other people.

That's fantastic. Lots of horrible people change and do great things. The horrible things in their past are still horrible though. Also if they start doing shady things in order to obfuscate their horrible past, you can't be surprised if people don't look kindly upon them.


I don't know but I don't care because he's my friend.

It's great that you're standing up for your friend. But you have to try to understand where the critics are coming from. If someone did something like this to your daughter, what would you think of the people that blindly stood by the criminal? Particularly when their response is all of what is listed above. Would you accept any of it?

1/21/13 1:48 PM
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kevinchhay
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Its like this kiddos when you drink too much kool-aid its poison Phone Post
1/21/13 1:49 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Kevins the man
1/21/13 1:49 PM
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Winston Wolf
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time traveling 12er - To people supporting Lloyd Irvin:


LLoyd Irvin says he had sex with her at this event. He then says he couldn't get it up. Either way the medical examiner says she has injuries and behavior consistent with someone who has had intercourse against her will. She says it was against her will. The court jury says it was against her will.

This is what is out there.

Given that, these are not understandable responses:

It's nobody's business.

Well it kind of is now that it's news, two of his students gang raped a student, and you're a public figure with lots of affiliated schools where people may be students.

That was a long time ago.

Yeah, but the dickish behavior associated with it is happening right now. Also rape is not one of those things people brush off. It's not a "phase".


She was a whore.

It's still not ok to rape a whore.

People also do bad things (not rape) so they shouldn't talk.

Unless they're also rapists I think it's fair to say people have good standing to criticize someone for raping or attempting to participate in what turned out to be a rape. Sleeping with a whore isn't on the same level as participating in a gang-rape to most people. Yes, yes, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But at the same time people can't just ignore

You weren't there.

Yeah, neither were you. So I guess neither of us is qualified to have an opinion about all this, but yet here we are.

He's done a lot for me and a lot of other people.

That's fantastic. Lots of horrible people change and do great things. The horrible things in their past are still horrible though. Also if they start doing shady things in order to obfuscate their horrible past, you can't be surprised if people don't look kindly upon them.

I don't know but I don't care because he's my friend.

It's great that you're standing up for your friend. But you have to try to understand where the critics are coming from. If someone did something like this to your daughter, what would you think of the people that blindly stood by the criminal? Particularly when their response is all of what is listed above. Would you accept any of it?

great post vtfu
1/21/13 1:52 PM
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CaptainBurma
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TLI's gis...made of 100% wool...
1/21/13 1:53 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 01/21/13 1:59 PM
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Thanks Winston Wolf!
1/21/13 2:03 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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brothers and sisters. IDK if you've seen this but apparently this cultist and rapist is attempting to take down http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/

1/21/13 2:20 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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ArthurKnoqOut - 

brothers and sisters. IDK if you've seen this but apparently this cultist and rapist is attempting to take down http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/


Well that scummy move is to be expected.

I know less than zip about that type of law.

Any lawyers on this site that could comment on effective counter-measures or tactics?
1/21/13 2:22 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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we do have some so I hope they can let us know what's what...

 

TTT for 2Jupes, he gave some legal insighti n the past.

1/21/13 2:42 PM
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Masturbasian
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TTT

lol at LI's lawyer.
1/21/13 2:56 PM
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samram
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Edited: 01/21/13 3:02 PM
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<blockquote>CaptainBurma - TLI's gis...made of 100% wool...</blockquote><br />

Hope you don't mind, but there was inspiration there ;-) haha

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/o3fbk.jpg[/IMG]

http://i45.tinypic.com/o3fbk.jpg

having trouble embedding?
1/21/13 3:11 PM
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FJJ828
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JLau'sWarmnessSpewingAllOverMyFace - DJ Jackson - "you have to realize your telling one of the people I consider a brother to leave his family. Leave his family for the actions of 2 people who have not even been a part of our family for very long. 2 people allegedly did something atrocious but we as a whole Team Lloyd Irvin had nothing to do with that 3 people and 3 people only where involved in what happened. And we have all given and are giving our support to our sister who was harmed."

"As for Master Lloyd I feel he owes no one an explanation for what happened because he was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. That means he is innocent of any crime. Why should an innocent man explain himself for something he didn't do"



I wonder if he is aware that 'not guilty' doesn't necessarily equate to innocence.

Be careful. DeuceDrippin will challenge you to a bet to settle the question of education...

"I'll put $$ that at least one of the Avellan brothers is MUCH more educated than yourself. Let me know if you would like to take me up on this and we can name a $ amount and set up verification through a mod."- DeuceDroppin

1/21/13 3:17 PM
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CaptainBurma
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samram - <blockquote>CaptainBurma - TLI's gis...made of 100% wool...</blockquote><br />

Hope you don't mind, but there was inspiration there ;-) haha

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/o3fbk.jpg[/IMG]

http://i45.tinypic.com/o3fbk.jpg

having trouble embedding?

can a blue hook us up?
1/21/13 3:24 PM
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kevinchhay
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JRockwell is your name Jeff? I remember competing against you! Congratulations on your Black Belt!

I know it was a long time ago! Phone Post
1/21/13 3:34 PM
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kevinchhay
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DJ Jackson his real family is Tom Callos, you know BJ Pens BJJ Coach? Phone Post
1/21/13 3:36 PM
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kevinchhay
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When you have to choose between your sister and father and a Lloyd Irvin I think the answers pretty clear! Phone Post
1/21/13 3:47 PM
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billyball2
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hammerhurler - 
ShawnTheBadger - 
ArthurKnoqOut - 

brothers and sisters. IDK if you've seen this but apparently this cultist and rapist is attempting to take down http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/


Well that scummy move is to be expected.

I know less than zip about that type of law.

Any lawyers on this site that could comment on effective counter-measures or tactics?

It could be bullshit. I did a bit of searching on Innovanetics (from lawyer's email address) and they're some web marketing company that does mainly porn sites. I also came across a link to this post on shitdog:

"The letter is a joke...I quick google search turns up no Peter Roth of Innovanetics. I doubt the guy is even a lawyer...the letter states he is an "agent" and I don't see his bar number either.

Innovanetics Incorporated is some company that provides IT support to LI-style marketing schemes. LI probably is one of their long term customers, and they are doing LI a favor in sending this cease-desist letter because the website threatens LI's revenues, which in turn threatens Innovanetics revenues."

LOL!!!!!


It does look like a lawyer sent the letter, but the guy who signs it never says he's an attorney.

It's signed:

"Sincerely,
Peter Roth
Intellectual Property Assets Protection
Innovanetics Incorporated"

Innovanetics Incorporated has a Facebook site with pictures of only one dude, so that could be Roth. No way to really be sure.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Innovanetics-Incorporated/117574161630770

Blue help please.



Looks like a hipster of some kind with a marketing company.
1/21/13 3:53 PM
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TristanESP
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billyball2 - 
hammerhurler - 
ShawnTheBadger - 
ArthurKnoqOut - 

brothers and sisters. IDK if you've seen this but apparently this cultist and rapist is attempting to take down http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/


Well that scummy move is to be expected.

I know less than zip about that type of law.

Any lawyers on this site that could comment on effective counter-measures or tactics?

It could be bullshit. I did a bit of searching on Innovanetics (from lawyer's email address) and they're some web marketing company that does mainly porn sites. I also came across a link to this post on shitdog:

"The letter is a joke...I quick google search turns up no Peter Roth of Innovanetics. I doubt the guy is even a lawyer...the letter states he is an "agent" and I don't see his bar number either.

Innovanetics Incorporated is some company that provides IT support to LI-style marketing schemes. LI probably is one of their long term customers, and they are doing LI a favor in sending this cease-desist letter because the website threatens LI's revenues, which in turn threatens Innovanetics revenues."

LOL!!!!!


It does look like a lawyer sent the letter, but the guy who signs it never says he's an attorney.

It's signed:

"Sincerely,
Peter Roth
Intellectual Property Assets Protection
Innovanetics Incorporated"

Innovanetics Incorporated has a Facebook site with pictures of only one dude, so that could be Roth. No way to really be sure.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Innovanetics-Incorporated/117574161630770

Blue help please.



Looks like a hipster of some kind with a marketing company.

You just insulted Hipsters.
1/21/13 3:54 PM
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Steven S
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What a POS school and students for behaving like this. "Master Lloyd" as these sheep call him need to leave this guy's family alone about money issues. These clowns get worse and worse the more you hear about them. Very arrogant and no morals at all.


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