UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Mir vs Barnett, more accomplished?


1/14/13 8:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
256 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42723
Good to see Mir getting a bit more respect now but as usu the UG always swings in extremes. Do people need a reminder that the Pride HW div was thee HW div at the time? Not saying Josh is the answer here but Mir's career hardly towers over Josh's. Also "accomplished" is very subjective, like are we just counting who has the best wins without regarding consistency and/or losses to sub-bar opposition?

I think Josh would beat Mir pretty handily btw. Josh never loses as easily as Mir either though Mir of course has those spectular wins.

Mir is the HW Rumina Sato.
1/14/13 8:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
256 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42724
MachidasStraightLeft - 
Olive Garden Table For One -  Mir has much bigger highs and lows, but is the greater of the two. Mir also never failed a drug test, but Barnett never lost to Brandon Vera Phone Post

This


Josh never lost to Ian Freeman or PDP either.
1/14/13 8:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BeatonHauff
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/18/12
Posts: 852

Lol people forget how shot Mirs chin is

1/14/13 8:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
256 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42725
cworley -  Mir . He's fought and won and fought in lost.. but either way, he fought the better fighters in a higher caliber tier of MMA. I'm sorry to those PRIDE fans but let's face facts, there are only a handful of what one would consider top tier talent that spent most of their career fighting in PRIDE. For every 1 PRIDE highly talented fighter, there are 6 that don't even make the UFC undercard talent wise. Barnett could have been the best, fighting the best in the world, but he didn't ... As far as this thread goes, BARNETT stoped BARNETT from being considered one of the best, let alone better than Mir. Mir may not be the best in the world, but he's won the most highly touted Championship in the world, And his game is more respectable with different areas that he can beat you with.


And plus, what ref wears headphones and isn't a company man?? Phone Post

So how deep was the UFC HW div back when Mir beat Syliva?

And who did he beat to win his 2nd (interim) title if Pride wasnt shit?

And which different areas can Frank beat you with that Josh cant?
1/14/13 8:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 75471

"Do people need a reminder that the Pride HW div was thee HW div at the time?"

But Josh didn't beat anyone in it other than a controversial decision over Nogueira.

I agree Josh would beat Mir though. 

1/14/13 8:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GSP24
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/17/05
Posts: 4801
Frank Mir has had a more successful career than Josh Barnett. No question. Phone Post
1/14/13 9:00 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cruedi
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 3298
MuchRespec' - Wasn't Barnett a Pancrase champ? Didn't he also win a BJJ world title?

FWIW Josh has a better record (9 more wins for the same amount of losses) and while Frank beat the ghost of Mirko and Josh managed to drop 3 to Pride Mirko (literally half the Warmaster's losses are to CroCop). Frank has some very bad losses on his record; Ian Freeman, Brandon Vera.

Josh stopped prime Randy (and I don't want to hear about 'steroids' when Randy's test results were NEVER made public, Josh's test results were released only AFTER he didn't come to terms with Zuffa over money). Whatever I saw the fight, a teenaged Josh beat Randy down. Period.


Not that any of it matters; Mir will win this poll based on being a Zuffa company man and spending his entire career fighting for the UFC (where his career has been expertly handled).

Where as Josh, who wasn't personal pals with the Zuffa brass, ran afoul of them over money a decade ago and sought his fortune abroad.

I'd like to know who's made more money personally, I think that's a factor as well but there truely is no way to know that.

Joshs win over Randy was one of the worst stoppage in UFC history. 1 second left in the third round, due to strikes that weren't landing solidly. Randy easily won the first 2 rounds. I don't claim that Randy would have gone to win, but the stoppage was up there with the standup between TK and Bas.

1/14/13 9:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
256 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42733
orcus - 

"Do people need a reminder that the Pride HW div was thee HW div at the time?"

But Josh didn't beat anyone in it other than a controversial decision over Nogueira.

I agree Josh would beat Mir though. 


Since people were mentioning that Mir fights in the UFC. The Aleks win was legit, Hunt and Schilt were ok wins (Schilt was in Inoki BBY), then there's Josh win's in the UFC prior. Josh has only lost to the best, cant say the same at all about Mir though as mentioned Mir does have the more spectacular wins.

Mir's win over Brock was legit or notable too but cmon Brock was still 3-1 but still legit that he was coming off the Herring and Randy wins.

I dont think either's resume towers over the other. Mir has the more spectacular wins and horrible losses, Josh has a much more consistent career. The only times in his career Josh wasnt really fighting in the top org was his post-Pride career but considering that he still managed to fight some decent guys then. Not directed at you but people are glossing that the UFC HW Div when Mir beat Sylvia was.....well, if you dont know, yu dont know.
1/14/13 9:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
256 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 42734
cruedi - 
MuchRespec' - Wasn't Barnett a Pancrase champ? Didn't he also win a BJJ world title?

FWIW Josh has a better record (9 more wins for the same amount of losses) and while Frank beat the ghost of Mirko and Josh managed to drop 3 to Pride Mirko (literally half the Warmaster's losses are to CroCop). Frank has some very bad losses on his record; Ian Freeman, Brandon Vera.

Josh stopped prime Randy (and I don't want to hear about 'steroids' when Randy's test results were NEVER made public, Josh's test results were released only AFTER he didn't come to terms with Zuffa over money). Whatever I saw the fight, a teenaged Josh beat Randy down. Period.


Not that any of it matters; Mir will win this poll based on being a Zuffa company man and spending his entire career fighting for the UFC (where his career has been expertly handled).

Where as Josh, who wasn't personal pals with the Zuffa brass, ran afoul of them over money a decade ago and sought his fortune abroad.

I'd like to know who's made more money personally, I think that's a factor as well but there truely is no way to know that.

Joshs win over Randy was one of the worst stoppage in UFC history. 1 second left in the third round, due to strikes that weren't landing solidly. Randy easily won the first 2 rounds. I don't claim that Randy would have gone to win, but the stoppage was up there with the standup between TK and Bas.


Not even close.

There wasnt that much controversy about the stoppage, at least not nearly as much as that of the TK/Bas standup. Randy didnt argue it though Randy wasnt much to make a fuss over stuff either.
1/14/13 9:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_granite007
113 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/23/09
Posts: 1030

Just want to see both Dan and Josh in the UFC. I'd much prefer a match-up with Frank and Josh, and see Dan against a wrestler, if he does decide to stay at HW. No reason for him to monkey around in the HW's if he and Cain aren't going to to fight.

 

 

1/14/13 11:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rumble_fish
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/11/09
Posts: 222
If I was forced to make a rankings list Mir would be ahead of Barnett on paper. But that is only because lately, Mir has fought and won against higher competition. In a fight though, I pick Barnett over Mir. I don't see Mir winning on the feet, and the only guy at HW I see catching Barnett is Werdum.
1/15/13 12:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PrettyBoy
26 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/07
Posts: 8698
MmanBearPig - Mir held the UFC title twice if you count interim so got to go with him

I Def do not count the interim title as winning the championship. neither should anyone else.

That said they have both been UFC Champ once but I would lean towards Mir for fighting at a higher level when the sport apexed far beyond the Pride that Barnett fought in.

1/15/13 2:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FedorEmilioEstevez
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/14/11
Posts: 1897
Mir but Barnett beats him Phone Post
1/15/13 2:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Soul Gravy
3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/15/07
Posts: 2254
Mir is the luckiest fighter in the history of MMA.
1/15/13 2:37 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GayGuardMooseSaucy
419 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/11
Posts: 9493
BeatonHauff -

Lol people forget how shot Mirs chin is

Who's forgetting? All loses by ko/tko
His chin has always been shit Phone Post
1/15/13 5:22 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mismatch
3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/25/10
Posts: 126
While I think Barnett has always been the better fighter of the two, there is no doubt that Mir is the more accomplished fighter because he kept fighting top competition and did very well for himself.

I'd love to see them fight even if it's a couple years too late. I think Mir has gotten a lot better while Barnett seems to have slowed down a bit and hasn't looked as great which means this fight should be pretty evenly matched. But at the same time it's hard to really know where Barnett is at with the opposition he's faced.
1/15/13 6:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Old Boxer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/19/07
Posts: 1343
Joshua J King - Mir has had a fucking rough career. The kind not many get back on top during. He did. That dude got his neck stomped on,his leg snapped,snapped Timmy's arm,got dinosaur hog fucked by that dinosaur hog of man Lesnar,after he tapped him out while he was getting dinosaur hog fucked by Lesnar the first time,punched Cup Chiek clear across the cage and dashed over to throw 2 strikes before realizing to throw on a choke in like 11.4 seconds,CinderBlock fist wouldn't trade with him in the center of the cage so he got the front and back of his head beat in the clinch with some of the largest and simultaneously fastest hands I've ever seen in Shane Carwin,TKO staph Nog and got beat up by nog only to engage in some of the most beautiful BJJ transitions ive ever seen in a heavyweight match and snap Big Nog's arm like he was opening a pickle jar and then it took the phenom JDS 2 rounds to TKO a still very much no ko'd Mir,when his fanboys here were debating the order In which he was to decapitate the rest of the UFC HW division.

Yeah,Mir is not a Legend. Whatevs. Phone Post
Great post Phone Post
1/15/13 6:08 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jons Forsberg
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 15004
Barnett. The best fighter in his prime that Mir beat was Sylvia. Josh beat Nogueira and Randy.
1/16/13 11:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MuchRespec'
46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8573
Soul Gravy - Mir is the luckiest fighter in the history of MMA.

It's not lucky that he's personal friends with the Zuffa brass. I don't want to use the word 'protected' (because you don't protect a guy by putting him in the cage with Shane Carwin and JDS) but certainly his career has been expertly managed.

He's had a lot of favorable matchups and when he does get in with somebody really nasty, there's always upside for him.

But what a lot of the (let's fact it, newer) UGers are posting is that 'Mir faced tougher competition'. Which is true in the last couple years (basically since Zuffa started buying up other orgs) but severely untrue over the course of their respective careers, where Barnett faced much better fighters on his way up and for the majority of their respective careers.

And Frank has lost to that tougher competition, I'm not really sure why that's considered an accomplishment, getting beat up.

There's zero doubt in my mind that Josh would step to anybody on Frank's resume given the same opportunity. Say what you will but the Warmaster will fight anybody...
1/16/13 11:37 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Attila
36 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 21670
Mir, but I think Barnett has always been the better fighter. He juck got locked out of the UFC.
1/16/13 11:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
kungfugrip
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 6367
I cant answer this question honestly. My dislike for Mur clouds my judgement too much
1/16/13 12:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Death Beast
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/17/11
Posts: 537
People should stop crediting Barnett for the win over Randy since he failed his test afterwards
1/16/13 12:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Proteus The Invincible
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/16/13 12:32 PM
Member Since: 3/11/11
Posts: 2032
I think Barnett is definitely the better fighter. In my opinion, the losses that the two of them have received reflect that. Mir has been absolutely destroyed numerous times by people who Barnett would, at the very least, be highly competitive with. In fact, I'd favour Barnett over everybody who's beaten Mir except for JDS.
1/16/13 12:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
chokeyou
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/28/02
Posts: 25686
Barnett. There is no reasonable person who could debate this.
1/16/13 12:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
RileyPust
107 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/4/11
Posts: 690
I'd rather just see them fight to make this argument more or less irrelevant.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.