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S&C UnderGround >> Help me with a kettlebell workout

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2/9/13 2:39 PM
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Liyon
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"If you do this A/B thing twice per week each until you hit those numbers with a 24kg you'll be in pretty good shape. "

Are you suggesting doing A/B once a week each or A/B twice a week each.

A B (TGUs twice a week)

or

A/B A/B (TGUs 4x a week) ??
2/9/13 5:27 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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4 total / week Phone Post
2/9/13 11:02 PM
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bull neck
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What BiC said. Although works really well on a 3x week basis too as:

Week 1 ABA

Week 2 BAB

Week 3 ABA

It's simple, hits everything and won't destroy you which is vital if you plan on actually training for something instead of just standing still like most gym heads. 3 - 4 x 40mins per week is very sustainable. Only thing I'd add would be pull ups.
2/10/13 12:45 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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Once again I agree with bull neck. The PM is not as intense as the program he recommended and the 4x isn't as taxing. His alternating approach would be much better for both a novice and someone who is already training combat sports and needs more recovery. Phone Post
2/10/13 9:07 PM
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rhino x2
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Good info. Thanks guys
2/10/13 9:07 PM
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rhino x2
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Good info. Thanks guys
2/24/13 9:29 PM
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cfraze
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. Phone Post
2/27/13 4:48 PM
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Eppy
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Really like Bull Neck's program - definitely giving it a go.

Also like the idea of Turkish Get Ups for time.

I am in no way any expert but just in case anyone wants any other ideas here's what I've been doing in my free time:

A - Swing day:

100 swings - 50 2 hand, 20 each hand single, 10 2 hand. Non stop (16kg)

3 x 10 Ballistic swing - where you put the bell back on the floor after each rep and swing with no momentum (24kg)

Alternate sets of 10 pullups with sets of 10 kettlebell rows. (24kg)


B - Snatch day

3 x 10 1 arm snatch with each arm (16kg)

3 x 5 1 arm snatch with each arm (24kg)

Some time on press ups and renegade rows

2/27/13 9:14 PM
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likatiga
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sub.

Just bought some bells for home.
2/27/13 10:14 PM
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Shanle929
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30 sec swings/30 sec rest. 10 sets a go to of mine. Prefer heavier weight. At least a 16kg(35lbs) Phone Post
2/28/13 12:49 AM
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bull neck
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You guys need some heavier bells and to go back and read what someone wrote on the last page - spend some time with someone who really knows kettlebells. It isn't me trying to drum up business because I live in Australia.

But to put this in perspective for you -

My 71 year old, 53kg mother swings an 18kg usually, and has done swings with a 24kg in the last two weeks (sets of 10).

The girls in our classes usually swing something more like 20-24kg and the more experienced girls are swinging something like 32kg for 10s. My gf who weighs about 60kg, but is an RKCII, has done a set of 10 with double 32s.

Even for get ups the girls are using a 16kg.

The swing is a really powerful action if you do it right. A little bit of time spent on instruction goes a long way. Why does it matter how much weight you use? because a heavier gives you either:

the same result for less reps/ time, OR

a better result for the same number of reps/ time.

Unless you're tiny a 16kg is a rehab bell for a dude.
2/28/13 10:31 PM
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Eppy
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Yeah I know 16kg is small but I'm coming back after a year or so of no training and am building up slowly to using the 24 for everything then plan to move on to doubles.

I read somewhere that doing swings and putting the bell down between reps to eliminate the momentum is a good way to transition up to heavier weights so am using this at the moment. As well as mixing up high reps with the 16 and low reps with the 24.

Also I'm not training for anything in particular and am self taught (though with years of lifting free weights and some crossfit training behind me) so am wary of injury.

Your advice is appreciated Bull Neck and yeah I really should take a couple of proper sessions with an instructor.

Those weights your students are working with are impressive - inspirational to know what is achievable with decent instruction and proper technique. Shame I'm in the UK otherwise I'd be looking you up.
2/28/13 10:32 PM
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Eppy
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Edited: 03/02/13 4:36 AM
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double post
3/1/13 11:04 PM
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bull neck
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Where are you in the UK? I've got friends everywhere :)

3/3/13 1:58 AM
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Ned Ryerson
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Man, I hadn't done a double kettlebell workout in a while and what a difference using 2 kb's instead of just one. I did a 5x5 circuit using 2 24kg kb's.

Renegade Rows
Swings
Snatch
Clean and Press
Squats

I was smoked when I finished Phone Post
3/3/13 3:39 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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2 things.

1. unilateral work vs bilateral work. Unilateral will be harder.

2. more weight is more weight.

( if you've doing swings with 2 16kg vs. a single 24kg or 2x 24kg vs. a 32kg bell.)

3/3/13 7:41 PM
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XmmaAddictX
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Subbed for some good info Phone Post
3/3/13 10:34 PM
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Ned Ryerson
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Bull_in_chinashop -

2 things.

1. unilateral work vs bilateral work. Unilateral will be harder.

2. more weight is more weight.

( if you've doing swings with 2 16kg vs. a single 24kg or 2x 24kg vs. a 32kg bell.)

For sure. I'd been rehabbing some injuries for the past few months and only doing single kb's and 2 handed for heavier weight

I realized though that I prefer doing swings with 1 kb rather than 2. I feel I have to squat too much due to the wider stance rather than the hip hinge with a single. Phone Post
3/4/13 4:05 PM
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bull neck
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Unless you've got su[er short legs double swings should be ok. It's likely always going to feel easier to swing a single bell than doubles but doubles are better.

For starters, if doubles are squatty, I'd suggest they're too heavy as that becomes everyone's fall back position. So drop the weight a bit and rework the pattern it's supposed to be.

Secondly the stance is going to be a bit different for most. Turn feet out slightly. This will lessen your hip hinge a bit as now when your knees track your toes they'll go out a bit which in turn means you can't push your hips back as much. That's ok as that is offset by using more weight.

Doubles are great and really worth using. I like to do my training about 50/50. Single bell is actually very self correcting as all that offset load gives you a lot of anti rotation work. My core tests on the FMS are all 3s yet I do almost zero core work other than single bell and heavy get ups. I do the 50% with doubles as that provides some other challenges. At 41 though training with doubles all the time is hard on my body.
3/4/13 7:46 PM
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shadallion
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I was also doing more of a squat motion than a true swing.

To me the correct motion is actually easier...and usually if it's easier, it's wrong.

What is the advantage to doing them the correct way, body wise? Because the squat ones sure did work the legs Phone Post
3/5/13 3:52 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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shadallion -  I was also doing more of a squat motion than a true swing.

To me the correct motion is actually easier...and usually if it's easier, it's wrong.

What is the advantage to doing them the correct way, body wise? Because the squat ones sure did work the legs Phone Post

 


By changing form, you'll remove the legs and put the hips and lower back into action. A hip dominant motion vs. a knee dominant motion.

 

If you're still looking for legs do Goblet squats.

 

3/5/13 9:48 PM
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bull neck
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I like to think of exercise selection as a laser, not a shotgun.

The reason to do swings, the main one, above all others, is it teaches the body to hip hinge and use the hips as primary force producers.

If you squat more you're just missing the point of it. Everyone is already quad dominant. I'd even go so far as to it's the entire anterior of the body that is dominant and getting people to focus more on the posterior chain has huge performance benefits. All of the most powerful actions such as sprinting and jumping are posterior chain dominant actions so gaining proficiency and strength in that reaps enormous benefits.

You don't need to use your quads more. Barely anyone does. So if you're doing swings you may as well do them for the reason you're supposed to do them and not turn them into a quad dominant shoulder raise. That's like using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. If you want quad dominant/ shoulder raise then do push presses. If you want hip power and posterior chain then do swings or deadlifts.

Pick the right tool for the job at hand and your results will improve tenfold. For example, let's say that you've never really trained before then swings are a great place to start. They're quite low load compared to DLs and you can get lots of reps in which is actually a key to building work capacity in the lumbar (a key in injury prevention). Once you've developed the endurance then you can move to strength/ power and introduce moves like the DL or the power clean.

So bells work to develop mobility and stability, then endurance but as the heaviest is only 48kgs they're not really heavy enough for maximal strength work and then you need a bar. Double swings would get you close but looking at the force/ velocity curve they fit in somewhere under power clean in terms of speed and load, yet above two hand swings which in turn would be above kettlebell snatches.

Just need to figure out why you're doing them then use them the right way.
3/8/13 1:22 PM
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cheesesteak
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Ned Ryerson - 
Bull_in_chinashop -

Since this have become the non-official "everything kettlebell" thread, I thought I'd pass on some of my own hard-earned experience to those who might find it useful.

For years I was doing swings wrong. No kidding, I had been to 2 seminars, trained with a few "experienced" people etc and I happened to stumble across Mark Reifkind's video blog. Rif loves swings and I watched a vid and noticed how different his swing form was from what I thought I "knew". I watched a few more vids from Pavel and Dan John and  it confirmed how wrong I was.

The problem: I was doing swings like a squat motion, using my legs, bending my knees slighly above parallel, letting the bell swing well below my knees. No wonder I wasn't getting the fuss about them.

I changed my form to hinge at the hips, ripping the bell down and back up with much straighter knees. Big difference! I went from using a 32kg back down to 16kg until I got my form down and stayed at 24kg for quite a while. (When we do explosive work, we now "overclock" the swings with a partner, which is kinda like making the swing a plyometric exercises.)

Same here. For years I was doing more of the squat type swing. Once I started doing the hip hinge style there was no looking back. Phone Post

Do you guys consider the squat as wrong though? I do them both ways and I actually like doing the squat way as an endurance builder and it has actually improved my endurance tremendously? I kind of just look at the squat swing with the bell going below the knees as a different more of a cardio/endurance rather than a strength

I'm kind of a KB noob too though, so what do I know
3/9/13 12:15 AM
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Ned Ryerson
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cheesesteak -
Ned Ryerson - 
Bull_in_chinashop -

Since this have become the non-official "everything kettlebell" thread, I thought I'd pass on some of my own hard-earned experience to those who might find it useful.

For years I was doing swings wrong. No kidding, I had been to 2 seminars, trained with a few "experienced" people etc and I happened to stumble across Mark Reifkind's video blog. Rif loves swings and I watched a vid and noticed how different his swing form was from what I thought I "knew". I watched a few more vids from Pavel and Dan John and  it confirmed how wrong I was.

The problem: I was doing swings like a squat motion, using my legs, bending my knees slighly above parallel, letting the bell swing well below my knees. No wonder I wasn't getting the fuss about them.

I changed my form to hinge at the hips, ripping the bell down and back up with much straighter knees. Big difference! I went from using a 32kg back down to 16kg until I got my form down and stayed at 24kg for quite a while. (When we do explosive work, we now "overclock" the swings with a partner, which is kinda like making the swing a plyometric exercises.)

Same here. For years I was doing more of the squat type swing. Once I started doing the hip hinge style there was no looking back. Phone Post

Do you guys consider the squat as wrong though? I do them both ways and I actually like doing the squat way as an endurance builder and it has actually improved my endurance tremendously? I kind of just look at the squat swing with the bell going below the knees as a different more of a cardio/endurance rather than a strength

I'm kind of a KB noob too though, so what do I know
Not wrong, just different IMO. I prefer the hip hinge style for the emphasis it puts on my core and hips. I also gets enough leg work with other exercises that I don't need the extra squats in my swing. Like I said before though, I did that type of swing for a long time with great results.

I've been doing a lot of "around the world swings" lately also. Variety is the spice of life so mix it up. Phone Post
4/10/13 10:42 PM
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UGCTT_5 for fighting
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