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1/15/13 10:14 PM
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Drugs_Delaney
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posters have been posting parts of a news article about LI and the 1989 rape case. i found myself reading a snippet here, a snippet there. so i went and read the entire thing. for those who have not had a chance to read it in its full context and to get a better idea as to why people are very passionate about this instance in the BJJ/Martial Arts community, here ya go.

FRAT alert

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-25/news/9004250070_1_third-juror-irvin-trial

Decency: Real Issue In Rape Trial

JIM SPENCER
April 25, 1990|By JIM SPENCER Columnist

I'm glad I wasn't on the jury that had to decide whether Terrence Gatling and Lloyd Irvin Jr. were guilty of gang-raping a 17-year-old Hampton University freshman.

Although the jurors found Gatling guilty of forcible sodomy, there was not enough evidence to convict either man of rape.

Still, when the three-day rape trial ended Monday, the defendants had revealed too much about themselves to be let off the hook for what happened Oct. 7 in Gatling's apartment.



On that evening a 17-year-old girl agreed to go to dinner with a group of male college students she barely knew. Then she agreed to go to an apartment with them for a party. Somewhere along the line she drank some booze.

By the end of the night, at least seven men had had sex with her. Neither Gatling, who is 21, nor Irvin, who is 20, tried to talk any of them out of it. Instead, they joined in. Or tried.

Irvin was saved by the fact that the jury believed he was impotent when it was his turn.

The rape trial was argued on the same turf as most rape trials: The girl, 5 feet 2 inches tall and 98 pounds, said she was forced to submit to the men's sexual advances. She said when she struggled with one of them, he hit her in the mouth. A medical report showed that her mouth was bruised.

The men said she was a willing participant in an orgy. Lawyers for Irvin and Gatling called witnesses who claimed they heard the girl encourage the men having sex with her.

The defendants also claimed that one of the first men to have sex with her came out of the bedroom yelling, "She's a freak. She's a freak."

Irvin and Gatling apparently took that to mean the 17-year-old was a nymphomaniac.

My question is: What difference does that make?

Does it justify being the seventh guy into the bedroom, or, for that matter, the first?

The jury didn't really address that.

"It was an emotional trial," one of the jurors, Barry Spigel, told me. "But we did a good job of getting rid of our own separate emotions and considering the evidence. The jury felt that there was reasonable doubt of whether a rape had occurred."

"I feel the girl was raped," said Bessie Singleton, another juror. "But the room where this happened was dark, and with all that was going on, it was unclear who was doing what."

"It's not over in my mind," Paul Hoyt, a third juror, confided. "These kinds of trials never are. You hope you call it correctly. I don't know what else you can do. We prayed to God for some guidance. I don't think anybody got any great revelations."

Without divine intervention, the trial turned on legal definitions. That's the only fair way, I know, but in this case it doesn't seem like enough.

Irvin walked free, not because he did the right thing and refused to have sex with a 17-year-old. He testified that he wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't.


Gatling's rape charge stemmed from an accusation that he held the girl down while Irvin had intercourse with her. Since the jury believed Irvin didn't have intercourse, Gatling couldn't have helped him. So Gatling could be convicted only of forcing the 17-year-old to perform oral sex.

Ah, justice.

I accept the premise of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I understand that the girl used terrible judgment. But whether or not she consented to the sex acts that occurred as a result, they shouldn't have happened. What's more, there's no way for the men involved to blame somebody else.

The verdict took into consideration reasonable doubt. I just wish there was some way it could have also included moral outrage. Maybe then everyone could have learned the real lesson of this tragedy:

Decent people don't try to exploit others. Not even "freaks."
1/15/13 10:43 PM
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HELWIG
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appalling

1/15/13 10:47 PM
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Diesel67
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In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.

1/15/13 10:55 PM
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JOESONDO
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So even if the girl consented this shouldn't have happened? So your problem isn't with rape, it's with group sex? Phone Post
1/15/13 10:59 PM
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Jaybrone
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Edited: 01/15/13 10:59 PM
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This is absolutely appaling. So her account is he is amongst those that raped her. His account is he wanted to but couldn't get an erection. And he did nothing to stop or even discourage it. The guy is a complete fucking scumbag.

1/15/13 11:04 PM
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Phisher
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Diesel67 - 

In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.


Sucks to be you gramps.

1/15/13 11:15 PM
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Amose
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Edited: 01/15/13 11:16 PM
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in

1/15/13 11:27 PM
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Leghound
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Diesel67 - 

In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.


You have an @aol email address don't ya?
1/15/13 11:33 PM
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Kings21
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Diesel67 - 

In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.


Yes I'm sure everyone in your time simply made out with girls and put off sexual intercourse until they got married. You cant possibly believe that can you?

Unless of course you're not speaking for everyone. Which in that case you should change the wording of your comment to not include "we" and instead replace it with "I".
1/15/13 11:35 PM
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Atlanta666
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 "But whether or not she consented to the sex acts that occurred as a result, they shouldn't have happened."

Am I the only one who feels like that sentence makes no sense..?

1/15/13 11:37 PM
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Kings21
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Atlanta666 - 

 "But whether or not she consented to the sex acts that occurred as a result, they shouldn't have happened."

Am I the only one who feels like that sentence makes no sense..?


I took it to mean that the girl was 17 and they shouldnt have had sex with her at all even if it was consented.
1/15/13 11:38 PM
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LastRowCarl
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Phisher -
Diesel67 - 

In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.


Sucks to be you gramps.

Are you really 67?

Whos the oldest poster on the ug I demand to know! Phone Post
1/15/13 11:41 PM
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Atlanta666
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Kings21 - 
Atlanta666 - 

 "But whether or not she consented to the sex acts that occurred as a result, they shouldn't have happened."

Am I the only one who feels like that sentence makes no sense..?


I took it to mean that the girl was 17 and they shouldnt have had sex with her at all even if it was consented.

Ah..You have a good point..

1/15/13 11:45 PM
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LastRowCarl
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Only in 2013 a man named drugs delany can talk about a 1989 gang rape on a mma forum Phone Post
1/15/13 11:46 PM
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alkysmurf
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Or maybe an alternate theory:
A young man or with older friends, drinking, and a couple more older guys show up with a girl who drinks and party's a flirts and talks about fantasies of gang bangs and rape, so they get down, other witnesses claim to hear no signs of rape and signs of eager participation, so this young man put in this extremely awkward position can't bring himself to violate this woman, uses a lame excuse to ease out of the situation while maintaining his status, this young girl later realizes what she just put herself through, calls the police for rape so as to avoid herself and hear all her friends say "its not your fault" absolving her guilt, this young man endures months of trial, is finally acquitted, after seeing the ripple effects of this incident takes on a career teaching women how to empower themselves against these very types of incident, more over he often voulenteers his time to do so.


Frat: i seriously doubt my version is remotely accurate, and the one you posted may be spot on. But dude we don't know we weren't there we are getting "facts" 20yrs later.

As for his students, I honestly haven't kept up with that situation, but it does make you wonder, similar situation... Phone Post
1/15/13 11:54 PM
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RoanPathius
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alkysmurf -  Or maybe an alternate theory:
A young man or with older friends, drinking, and a couple more older guys show up with a girl who drinks and party's a flirts and talks about fantasies of gang bangs and rape, so they get down, other witnesses claim to hear no signs of rape and signs of eager participation, so this young man put in this extremely awkward position can't bring himself to violate this woman, uses a lame excuse to ease out of the situation while maintaining his status, this young girl later realizes what she just put herself through, calls the police for rape so as to avoid herself and hear all her friends say "its not your fault" absolving her guilt, this young man endures months of trial, is finally acquitted, after seeing the ripple effects of this incident takes on a career teaching women how to empower themselves against these very types of incident, more over he often voulenteers his time to do so.


Frat: i seriously doubt my version is remotely accurate, and the one you posted may be spot on. But dude we don't know we weren't there we are getting "facts" 20yrs later.

As for his students, I honestly haven't kept up with that situation, but it does make you wonder, similar situation... Phone Post

Dude have you been reading any of this? Are you sick in the head or something?
1/16/13 12:01 AM
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Drugs_Delaney
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alkysmurf -  Or maybe an alternate theory:
A young man or with older friends, drinking, and a couple more older guys show up with a girl who drinks and party's a flirts and talks about fantasies of gang bangs and rape, so they get down, other witnesses claim to hear no signs of rape and signs of eager participation, so this young man put in this extremely awkward position can't bring himself to violate this woman, uses a lame excuse to ease out of the situation while maintaining his status, this young girl later realizes what she just put herself through, calls the police for rape so as to avoid herself and hear all her friends say "its not your fault" absolving her guilt, this young man endures months of trial, is finally acquitted, after seeing the ripple effects of this incident takes on a career teaching women how to empower themselves against these very types of incident, more over he often voulenteers his time to do so.


Frat: i seriously doubt my version is remotely accurate, and the one you posted may be spot on. But dude we don't know we weren't there we are getting "facts" 20yrs later.

As for his students, I honestly haven't kept up with that situation, but it does make you wonder, similar situation... Phone Post

20yrs later? (if im reading your 2nd to last statement right)

this article was written a few days after the verdict was read.

heres (part of)another article written the day the judge sent the jury to deliberate.

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-21/news/9004210056_1_irvin-two-men-young-woman

Both men admitted they at least wanted to have sex with the woman and that she invited them to have sex with her. Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not.

Two defense witnesses said Thursday they looked into the room, saw bodies on the bed, and heard a woman encouraging the sexual activity with explicit comments.

Despite the contested facts, testimony from the two-day trial painted a disturbing picture. Attorneys on both sides agreed that the girl used poor judgment in going alone with men she barely knew, while the defendants expressed no remorse for what happened.

Foster questioned Gatling's reaction to learning that several men were having sex with a young woman in his bedroom.

"Did you say anything to him like, a man shouldn't be doing this?" Foster asked.

"No," Gatling replied.

"That was all right with you?" the prosecutor continued.

"Yes."

Irvin said that having sex with a "freak" was not one of his best ideas of fun, but he did not oppose it.

The only physical evidence presented by the state was the testimony of a doctor who examined the alleged victim at the emergency room. The doctor said the woman's lip was bruised and that her vagina was bruised and irritated more severely than someone who had had sex with just one person.
1/16/13 12:03 AM
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Drugs_Delaney
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*sorry, it was posted the day after the judge sent them out(saturday)
1/16/13 12:07 AM
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ShawnTheBadger
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alkysmurf -  Or maybe an alternate theory:
A young man or with older friends, drinking, and a couple more older guys show up with a girl who drinks and party's a flirts and talks about fantasies of gang bangs and rape, so they get down, other witnesses claim to hear no signs of rape and signs of eager participation, so this young man put in this extremely awkward position can't bring himself to violate this woman, uses a lame excuse to ease out of the situation while maintaining his status, this young girl later realizes what she just put herself through, calls the police for rape so as to avoid herself and hear all her friends say "its not your fault" absolving her guilt, this young man endures months of trial, is finally acquitted, after seeing the ripple effects of this incident takes on a career teaching women how to empower themselves against these very types of incident, more over he often voulenteers his time to do so.


Frat: i seriously doubt my version is remotely accurate, and the one you posted may be spot on. But dude we don't know we weren't there we are getting "facts" 20yrs later.

As for his students, I honestly haven't kept up with that situation, but it does make you wonder, similar situation... Phone Post

Read. Educate yourself as much as possible on the topic you are commenting upon.

http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/

You are using "she deserved it/asked for it" as some sort of lame-as-fuck dispicable defense for seven deplorable scum-bags, six of whom were convicted, and one of whom (LI) fully admitted his complicity but got off on a stupid technicality.

1/16/13 12:41 AM
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burner22
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Ttt. More people should actually read this and realize what sort of filth they are supporting when they purchase a Lloyd Irvin product Phone Post
1/16/13 12:54 AM
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Kings21
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ShawnTheBadger - 
alkysmurf -  Or maybe an alternate theory:
A young man or with older friends, drinking, and a couple more older guys show up with a girl who drinks and party's a flirts and talks about fantasies of gang bangs and rape, so they get down, other witnesses claim to hear no signs of rape and signs of eager participation, so this young man put in this extremely awkward position can't bring himself to violate this woman, uses a lame excuse to ease out of the situation while maintaining his status, this young girl later realizes what she just put herself through, calls the police for rape so as to avoid herself and hear all her friends say "its not your fault" absolving her guilt, this young man endures months of trial, is finally acquitted, after seeing the ripple effects of this incident takes on a career teaching women how to empower themselves against these very types of incident, more over he often voulenteers his time to do so.


Frat: i seriously doubt my version is remotely accurate, and the one you posted may be spot on. But dude we don't know we weren't there we are getting "facts" 20yrs later.

As for his students, I honestly haven't kept up with that situation, but it does make you wonder, similar situation... Phone Post

Read. Educate yourself as much as possible on the topic you are commenting upon.

http://www.lloydirvinrapeexposed.com/

You are using "she deserved it/asked for it" as some sort of lame-as-fuck dispicable defense for seven deplorable scum-bags, six of whom were convicted, and one of whom (LI) fully admitted his complicity but got off on a stupid technicality.


Glad to see theres a good compilation of all this crap on one site. I'm the first one to say that there ARE girls that fake rape and ask to be raped while they're drunk and stuff BUT it doesnt happen a lot. With this particular set of events it just gets harder and harder to give Lloyd the benefit of the doubt. Even just looking at his sambo instructor and his two students who raped another student you cant help but think that where theres smoke, theres fire.


Cant wait for a more mainstream news outlet to pick this up and get Lloyd explain himself more than putting out rape prevention videos days after his own student was raped by other students. Sickening.
1/16/13 12:56 AM
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MagSlim
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I'd be interested to see what a Lexis Nexis search would retrieve. Don't have access to that database anymore.
1/16/13 1:02 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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Diesel67 - 

In my time we went out with girls.  We even made out with them.  But we stopped short of sex until we got married.  It wasn't fear of the law.  It was fear of God.


in the case of rapists and pedophiles, they should be scared that the victims father, brother, or loved one will catch them, take them down to the water edge, and put a bullet in the back of their skull.
1/16/13 9:47 AM
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Drugs_Delaney
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MagSlim - I'd be interested to see what a Lexis Nexis search would retrieve. Don't have access to that database anymore.

saw someone mention lexis in another thread. wut dis?
1/16/13 10:53 AM
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rockwell
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JOESONDO - So even if the girl consented this shouldn't have happened? So your problem isn't with rape, it's with group sex? Phone Post
She didn't and it was proven.
2 of the guys were convicted of rape.
Gatling was convicted of holding her down and forcing her to give him oral sex.

What angels. Phone Post

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