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UnderGround Forums >> Keenan's fathers letter (copy and pasted)


1/17/13 2:09 AM
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El_Geronimo_de_Gato
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Fuck all, I blue named the wrong account. Godammit.
1/17/13 2:16 AM
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Philanderer
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Drugs_Delaney - 
MDAlex - 
Philanderer -
pancadinha - 1- hi rev, big ups to you for joining in on this. There's no where near enough blackbelts and/or senior guys taking a stand.

2-Tom callos, you are awesome, but he is still a boy. I posted on one of the deleted strings, go get your boy. In fact, have someone of influence talk to Keenan about it, like BJ or even nakapan who just left and probably knows him.

3- the Lloyd post is old. Not saying she's not still staying it mind controlled, but I read that Friday.

Keep up the good work people

Nakapan left?
This Phone Post

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/16/3883808/lloyd-irvin-rape-beta-academy-cut-ties

Good for him.
1/17/13 4:45 AM
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Spoonie Luv
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Pffffftttt Phone Post
1/17/13 4:58 AM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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FlyingSubsOnly - Keenan and the rape victim are staying at TLI after all this... Mind.Blown.

Irvin like most cult leaders is most likely a very smooth muthafucka. And the girl in question is most likely to traumatized to have been reading on the internet about her Masters sordid past

Things wont change until mainstream media pick up on this
1/17/13 10:45 AM
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reverend john
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I would rather Anonymous get on it. The fact is much of what Lloyd does is manipulation of the internet and search engines. He is in many ways a cyber bully. In anonymous he will have met a group that not only will not be intimidated but will smash his puny attempts to market off of this tragedy and his own criminal and immoral behavior.

And yes, I know he was acquitted. He was acquitted by a jury informed that they could not give him a lesser charge than rape. By his own confession he was there when a 17 year old was raped, repeatedly by a number of people. That makes him an accessory to rap, which is criminal. If the jury would have been allowed to convict him of this lesser charge he would have served time. This is of course if both the victim and one of the other members of the party are lying, and Lloyd did in fact fail to be able to get it up. If they are not lying, then Lloyd is also a rapist, but that is conjecture.

rev
1/17/13 11:52 AM
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Batarnaque
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I have to restrain myself from talking too much about this issue right now, all of this has really put the spotlight on pure evil and good humanity on scales I can't pretend to fully understand.

I know a lot about manipulation and cultish indoctrination and will wait some time to see if I have a unique viewpoint once I feel I have a real grasp on the whole mess.

We should all make sure good things ultimately come out of this utter mess, be it awareness, understanding and empathy. We are all one, let's never forget that.

Thanks for the illuminating posts, Mr. Callos.
1/17/13 12:21 PM
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socal
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great letter by Mr. Callos, thanks rev.

L.I. sounds creepier & scummier by the day
1/17/13 1:27 PM
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6ULDV8
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TTT

1/17/13 2:12 PM
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Badmonkey
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reverend john - I would rather Anonymous get on it. The fact is much of what Lloyd does is manipulation of the internet and search engines. He is in many ways a cyber bully. In anonymous he will have met a group that not only will not be intimidated but will smash his puny attempts to market off of this tragedy and his own criminal and immoral behavior.

And yes, I know he was acquitted. He was acquitted by a jury informed that they could not give him a lesser charge than rape. By his own confession he was there when a 17 year old was raped, repeatedly by a number of people. That makes him an accessory to rap, which is criminal. If the jury would have been allowed to convict him of this lesser charge he would have served time. This is of course if both the victim and one of the other members of the party are lying, and Lloyd did in fact fail to be able to get it up. If they are not lying, then Lloyd is also a rapist, but that is conjecture.

rev

TTT
1/17/13 2:20 PM
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6ULDV8
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El_Geronimo_de_Gato - Fuck all, I blue named the wrong account. Godammit.

That is unintentionally hilarious.  Serves you right for making more than one account :P

 

I'm probably sure that everyone in the world is anonymous really, and if enough anonymous people learn about and are disgusted by something together, they could probably do something about it if they make enough noise.

 

 

1/17/13 2:43 PM
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Black Belt Wrestling
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MLMS nearly always develop cult like followings .. all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
1/17/13 3:52 PM
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Badmonkey
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TTT
1/17/13 4:54 PM
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cheesesteak
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Letsgo2war - Keenan is not going to leave Lloyd Irvin because he wants to be a Black Belt World Champion. That is his dream, and he knows that he is on the right path to achieving that goal.

Like he wouldn't be a BB world champion with GB, alliance, ATOS, Marcello's school etc.. ?????
1/17/13 5:02 PM
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TheRaider
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Edited: 01/17/13 5:05 PM
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Amazing posts. I think it is awesome that you have the humility to be a student of a former student. A lot of people's ego's would get in the way.
1/17/13 5:13 PM
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shen
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Edited: 01/17/13 6:33 PM
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I definitely RESPECT and support Mr. Callos in his words and his actions. 100%. (Period)

BUT as a separate topic, in terms of organizing to teach self-Defense... there is no reason to re-invent the wheel when it comes to women's self-defense training. It's not a new concern. There are people who have been doing this training for a LONG time.

There are actually some pretty good women's self-defense programs out there (and many more terrible ones!).

FWIW, here's an very OLD clip of one such organization I teach for (I'm the guy in the suit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OC4eYsOc1k

IMO, this is a decent women's self-defense course -none are perfect- and there are other that are decent too. But many such programs just don't tend to associate themselves with the larger martial arts community. As a result, many guys in the MA world don't really know anything about them.

As a rule, these programs don't tend to get the same students as martial arts studios. We get referrals from psychologists for student who have been raped or abused. I have NEVER taught a class that didn't have a portion of the class that had been assaulted --some horrifically so. They know from our reputation that our class is "safe" emotionally for people like them. They know that carefully done adrenaline-stress training is proven to help people be less hyper-vigilant and feel more empowered.

Compare that to when a so-called "rape prevention" class is offered by a typical martial arts school, it's usually little more than a marketing gimmick to get more female students in the door.

So, while many MA instructors feel like they are combative experts who "stoop down" to graciously teach women or children "self-defense", in actuality, your typical martial arts instructor is NOT really equipped to teach self-defense. A martial arts instructor and a self-defense instructor are two different animals --though the typical MA instructor often doesn't realize that!

A short-term "self-defense course" is a specialized type of training. It's really easy to do, but very hard to do well. Any such course should offer SOME level of training in topics like: awareness, the role of intuition, applied criminal psychology, the effects of adrenaline, verbal deescalation skills and legal aspects of self-defense. It should have a very low "technique threshold" meaning the moves are SIMPLE to do. Further, it should offer some scenario-based training element where the students get ADRENALIZED AS THEY WOULD BE DURING AN ACTUAL ASSAULT. That is imperative.

Truthfully, how many gym owners are prepared to do that?

So, massive amounts of "regular" martial arts instructors (i.e. non-self-defense instructors) teaching "Women's self-defense" is NOT something we need more of --it's something we already have!

In fact, there is TOO MUCH bad "short term self-defense training" aimed at women out there. Most of it, while well intentioned, is a far too complex, non-instinctive hodgepodge of martial arts techniques, which a group of women students will giggle their way through then shortly forget all about. That doesn't truly serve anybody.
1/17/13 5:30 PM
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Akston
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Tom is a great guy Phone Post
1/17/13 6:03 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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sub for Callos learning

1/17/13 7:31 PM
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LShaman
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Edited: 01/17/13 7:34 PM
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My heart goes out to Tom with what he and his son are going through, as well it playing out in public like this. It has to be super frustrating but with time they'll be back on the same page again. One comforting thought to be had with this troubling situation has to be that Keenan has obviously had a very good up bringing and is equipped with the values to stand strong and not take part in any bad situation that could occur at TLI while he stays there.


To leave TLI is the obvious thing to do and it seems very simple but it isn't. I'm 24, so I'm fresh enough out of school to remember how strong the pull is that your peers have. He basically spends all of his time with them, became close, and on top of that is doing what he enjoys in life with them. So when they lay guilt on him, and probably bully (maybe not physically but more "You leave us now man your a little bitch!") it's going to hit him hard. I'm sure he wants to go, but is just trying to find a way to make everyone happy. As soon as he realizes that is impossible hopefully he'll decide to the right thing.

Maybe throw Penn and LI in the cage with just Tom and his kid watching and then have a talk. That'd kill any "master" Lloyd illusion right there.
1/17/13 7:33 PM
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BUFFGEO
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shen - 
I definitely RESPECT and support Mr. Callos in his words and his actions. 100%. (Period)

BUT as a separate topic, in terms of organizing to teach self-Defense... there is no reason to re-invent the wheel when it comes to women's self-defense training. It's not a new concern. There are people who have been doing this training for a LONG time.

There are actually some pretty good women's self-defense programs out there (and many more terrible ones!).

FWIW, here's an very OLD clip of one such organization I teach for (I'm the guy in the suit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OC4eYsOc1k

IMO, this is a decent women's self-defense course -none are perfect- and there are other that are decent too. But many such programs just don't tend to associate themselves with the larger martial arts community. As a result, many guys in the MA world don't really know anything about them.

As a rule, these programs don't tend to get the same students as martial arts studios. We get referrals from psychologists for student who have been raped or abused. I have NEVER taught a class that didn't have a portion of the class that had been assaulted --some horrifically so. They know from our reputation that our class is "safe" emotionally for people like them. They know that carefully done adrenaline-stress training is proven to help people be less hyper-vigilant and feel more empowered.

Compare that to when a so-called "rape prevention" class is offered by a typical martial arts school, it's usually little more than a marketing gimmick to get more female students in the door.

So, while many MA instructors feel like they are combative experts who "stoop down" to graciously teach women or children "self-defense", in actuality, your typical martial arts instructor is NOT really equipped to teach self-defense. A martial arts instructor and a self-defense instructor are two different animals --though the typical MA instructor often doesn't realize that!

A short-term "self-defense course" is a specialized type of training. It's really easy to do, but very hard to do well. Any such course should offer SOME level of training in topics like: awareness, the role of intuition, applied criminal psychology, the effects of adrenaline, verbal deescalation skills and legal aspects of self-defense. It should have a very low "technique threshold" meaning the moves are SIMPLE to do. Further, it should offer some scenario-based training element where the students get ADRENALIZED AS THEY WOULD BE DURING AN ACTUAL ASSAULT. That is imperative.

Truthfully, how many gym owners are prepared to do that?

So, massive amounts of "regular" martial arts instructors (i.e. non-self-defense instructors) teaching "Women's self-defense" is NOT something we need more of --it's something we already have!

In fact, there is TOO MUCH bad "short term self-defense training" aimed at women out there. Most of it, while well intentioned, is a far too complex, non-instinctive hodgepodge of martial arts techniques, which a group of women students will giggle their way through then shortly forget all about. That doesn't truly serve anybody.

Great Vid. the actual ablity to stand up for yourself and actually fight at all is very difficult for most people today to handle, even men (Tho they wont admit it)
1/17/13 7:38 PM
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Greg Soto
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Respect the man. Hope Keenan heeds his fathers advice Phone Post
1/17/13 7:54 PM
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Bat21
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As a father, I can only applaud Tom's stance, and if Keenan has half the smarts his father obviously has, he'll get as far away from TLI as possible.

1/17/13 8:52 PM
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CindyO
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El_Geronimo_de_Gato - Fuck all, I blue named the wrong account. Godammit.

LMAO!!!

 

Cindy

1/17/13 9:01 PM
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Eazy08
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This is all so dumb, so since two of you're teammates raped another teammate you should up and leave the team?
1/17/13 9:41 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Edited: 01/17/13 9:46 PM
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no.

But when the head instructor, an acquitted participant in a gang rape, attempts to utilize the publicity to increase his revenue stream

AND

one of his black belts calls his victim a 'dirty whore who wanted a train ran on her'

AND

another of his black belts attacks your family publicly and behaves as an amoral sycophant in defending TLI (Too Limp Irvin)

AND

the guy who gave your head instructor his Sambo black belt is a convicted incestous pedophile

THEN

you should seriously examine the people who surround you and the culture you're embracing.

1/17/13 9:56 PM
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YVES JOCKSTRAP
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^ this Phone Post

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