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UnderGround Forums >> Carlson Gracies old-school old school


1/18/13 9:09 AM
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InYourMomaCloset
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Fock it!!

I was looking for that pic of Arona, Belfort, Nogeria and Filho lined up with their coaches - all jacked ta'fuck.

Carlson Gracie seemed to basically establish the "power Jiu-Jitsu" style, right?

All of his guys were monsters.

My question.

Give me your honest opinion.

What do you think the likely hood of them guys juicing or using 'roids was?

I'm just curious....

Guys with more experience with them body types might know better.

Couple of pics here....

http://www2.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/20090913025823_bitetti_531.JPG

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mackzksaD51qhedyvo1_500.jpg

http://www.mouthlondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/vitor-belfort-16.gif
1/18/13 4:28 PM
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RollHighAllDay
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It doesn't even matter if they were, nobody trained as hard as Carlson Gracie team back then. Their strength and endurance training was second to none. I would definitely assume that steroids could have been a factor, but if you train that hard you will look like that, steroids or not. Phone Post
1/18/13 4:50 PM
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InYourMomaCloset
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Wes_Mantooth - 19 year old Vitor was all natural.

This was the guy that was fighting at HW and knocking guys out and now fights at MW?

Not sure if serious....

1/18/13 4:55 PM
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InYourMomaCloset
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RollHighAllDay -  It doesn't even matter if they were, nobody trained as hard as Carlson Gracie team back then. Their strength and endurance training was second to none. I would definitely assume that steroids could have been a factor, but if you train that hard you will look like that, steroids or not. Phone Post

Well, what was Carlson's philosophy exactly?

Something as regards using Jiu-Jitsu to control the positioning and training extreme strength and athletic workouts?

The three most prominent members of his gym were all absolutely jacked.
Befort - Arona - Filho.


Granted - a lot of guys take steroids and never reach that level of physique/athleticism.

Think the contemporary Vitor is still juicing??
1/20/13 1:29 PM
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RollHighAllDay
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Vitor Harold says he is on trt, which is just legal steroids. Whether he admits to taking anything before hand is up to him. Phone Post
1/20/13 1:31 PM
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RollHighAllDay
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Harold? Auto correct Phone Post
1/20/13 1:58 PM
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Evzey
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Vitor Harold is a beast! Phone Post
1/20/13 2:18 PM
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InYourMomaCloset
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I'm gonna keep ttt'ing this thread until I get some solid info on Carlson Gracies training program.

There was a thread years ago that some guy was saying his coach trained there when he was learning BJJ.

All he was saying though was that Paulo Filho used to come to the gym with 7 or 8 pitbulls.
1/20/13 3:29 PM
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InYourMomaCloset
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ttt'ing
1/20/13 4:48 PM
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Woodford Mike
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Subbed Phone Post
1/20/13 5:00 PM
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ChangoBravo
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Subbed


Chango Phone Post
1/20/13 5:00 PM
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Angry Bird
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1/21/13 2:41 AM
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InYourMomaCloset
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ttt'ing
1/21/13 5:00 AM
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SKARHEAD
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RollHighAllDay -  It doesn't even matter if they were, nobody trained as hard as Carlson Gracie team back then. Their strength and endurance training was second to none. I would definitely assume that steroids could have been a factor, but if you train that hard you will look like that, steroids or not. Phone Post

lol



No....if you train that hard you will not just end up looking like a yolked roided out Belfort, Arona, or Filho
1/21/13 6:51 AM
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LEMon
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I got to train at BTT and Carlsons in the prime and the whole gym was ridiculous. Bitteti, Ze Mario, Carlos baretto, pequeno, filho, pega leve, both minos, bustamante, Liborio was there still, purrumpina, margarida was there and simply ridiculous. Another level.

Vitor was on big brother and every day was a new joke about it.

For some reason arona wasn't there?

Those guys trained ridiculously hard every single day, there were a dozen blackbelts no one had ever heard of just as good. Every day were ridiculous matchups and amazing techniques/strategies mainly from Ze Mario.

Filho would toss everyone, I don't think people realise how good he was and his judo was excellent. One day Flavio Canto came in and trained for a few days. Was just a ridiculously fertile time and one of my greatest memories.

It was funny to watch the matchups, although I wouldn't say some were very interesting stylistically, I wish I could film. About a week or two in Murrilo went and fought chuck Liddell an IMO almost beat him. In training he was half asleep most of the time.

Every couple of days I would visit Carlson's school in Copa beach and it was pretty sad for me. Cafe and supporito(sp?) were there but not much else. Carlson was very nice but in bad shape, being tended on and He would sit in the back most times and watch degrassi high. I wish I could have witnessed his team in their prime. Phone Post
1/21/13 7:02 AM
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LEMon
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Lots of awesome stories.

One of the fighters Roan Carneiro was fighting another brazilian that had just upset shooto champ Mach sakurai with his southpaw jab. Jucao was really cool and helped us a lot. We got to sit in on a lot of his strategy sessions and Liborio etc had him prepping well for this southpaw. They asked us what we knew about him (YouTube wasn't around) we said he had good Muay Thai and BJJ and was pretty tall.

They felt Jucao was same build and his boxing was good and he'd be able to beat him. They prepped hard for the southpaws jab etc.

Unfortunately the guy came out and switched to orthodox. He dominated the standup quit easily but Jucao fought hard and eventually got the takedown but his opponent Locked on a body triangle from guard and swept, mounted and elbowed him to a finish ( bit hazy now).

Jucao was very good but his opponent went on to mega stardom and the name Anderson Silva became a household name. Phone Post
1/21/13 7:20 AM
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Silhouette
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LEMon -  Lots of awesome stories.

One of the fighters Roan Carneiro was fighting another brazilian that had just upset shooto champ Mach sakurai with his southpaw jab. Jucao was really cool and helped us a lot. We got to sit in on a lot of his strategy sessions and Liborio etc had him prepping well for this southpaw. They asked us what we knew about him (YouTube wasn't around) we said he had good Muay Thai and BJJ and was pretty tall.

They felt Jucao was same build and his boxing was good and he'd be able to beat him. They prepped hard for the southpaws jab etc.

Unfortunately the guy came out and switched to orthodox. He dominated the standup quit easily but Jucao fought hard and eventually got the takedown but his opponent Locked on a body triangle from guard and swept, mounted and elbowed him to a finish ( bit hazy now).

Jucao was very good but his opponent went on to mega stardom and the name Anderson Silva became a household name. Phone Post

Jucao teaches here in atlanta he is an awesome guy and very knowledgeable
1/21/13 10:24 AM
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InYourMomaCloset
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Lemon, that's awesome.
You saw Silva Vs Carnero live?
I remember watching that on dailymotion years ago when I was in college.

Can you tell us a bit about their strength and conditioning workouts at BTT/Carlson Gracies?

Was it mainly weight training or crossfit?
And how did their technical training tie in with that?
(i.e. what were them guys doing that made them so physically superior to their competition?)

When the guys practiced, talking specifically about Paulo Filho, Belfort etc, did they go 100% all the time or was there more a focus on technical movements etc?

I think I mentioned in the OP some poster mentioned a couple years ago about how good Filho was in training; that it was unheard of that other fighters would pass his guard and he was incredibly strong physically.

They also made reference to possible drug use - steriods etc.
Can you talk a bit about the above, what you had seen in your experience there?

"Margarida" - is that "Fernado Margarida", as in, this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkL0nvDyYXg
1/21/13 10:33 AM
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GunnarWreckedMyAssHAOLE
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Young Vitors 'S&C' Coach...

1/21/13 10:47 AM
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Chris SK
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TTT Phone Post
1/21/13 12:00 PM
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tiger07
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TTT
1/21/13 12:24 PM
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fakezaga
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Hearing that Carlson was hooked on Degrassi is probably the greatest thing ever!

"He fuck Tessa Campanelli?!? Joey Jeremiah is creonte!"

The impression I had is (juice or no juice,) old-school Carlson workouts were ridiculously hard. I trained with Alexandre Penao and his half-hour warm up included lots of calisthenics, plyos and conditioning. At first, we would be worn out before we even got to technique. Stephan Kesting visited once and said it was a lot like the workout Marcus Soares puts his guys through - and that he hadn't seen it anywhere else.

LEMon: does that sound right to you? Ever meet Penao?
1/21/13 4:27 PM
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LEMon
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Silhouette - 
LEMon -  Lots of awesome stories.

One of the fighters Roan Carneiro was fighting another brazilian that had just upset shooto champ Mach sakurai with his southpaw jab. Jucao was really cool and helped us a lot. We got to sit in on a lot of his strategy sessions and Liborio etc had him prepping well for this southpaw. They asked us what we knew about him (YouTube wasn't around) we said he had good Muay Thai and BJJ and was pretty tall.

They felt Jucao was same build and his boxing was good and he'd be able to beat him. They prepped hard for the southpaws jab etc.

Unfortunately the guy came out and switched to orthodox. He dominated the standup quit easily but Jucao fought hard and eventually got the takedown but his opponent Locked on a body triangle from guard and swept, mounted and elbowed him to a finish ( bit hazy now).

Jucao was very good but his opponent went on to mega stardom and the name Anderson Silva became a household name. Phone Post

Jucao teaches here in atlanta he is an awesome guy and very knowledgeable

Totally agree, one of the nicest dudes. He was a brown belt at the time and badass!
1/21/13 4:39 PM
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LEMon
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The thing about BTT that struck me was that they had good leadership and camaraderie. They weren't necessarily fighting for the BTT name the way they would fight for Carlson, BTT was more of a melting pot/management.

For eg Bitteti would have Artur Mariano (the guy Wanderlei fought and lost via cut in IVC 2) holding pads for him exclusively every session.

Basically training would be Kickboxing/Boxing takedowns, BJJ, GNP with big gloves and Wall fighting. They guys would go pretty hard ! Was awesome to watch, not so fun to participate.

Filho etc would come and go, basically Ze Mario and Murrilo were there every day but the others would be in and out depending on the day, if fight coming up etc.

Fernado Margarida though was ridiculous. He would just throw and sub EVERYBODY. I never saw him with Ze Mario though, I would have KILLED to see that.

Pequeno too was amazing to watch he would sub some monsters while looking like a little Tony Danza.

Strength and conditioning was a funny one, we never really got to see that. Jucao would run up Cristo Redentor mountain lol. We were actually asked to leave when the coach came to be honest. The guys generally seemed to have their own S and C coaches though and do their own thing.
1/21/13 4:44 PM
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LEMon
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People are talking about juicing...is there a point to this?

At this stage (and vote me down if you have to) can anybody that's a fighter say they don't? The Americans, Japanese and Brazilians...name a guy who doesn't and I'll have to call you a liar.

I have a team of fighters and none of them have ever juiced but this isn't UFC/Pride level. The whole Lance Amstrong thing is ridiculous, it's like a mother that knows her daughter is having sex (coz she did at 17) but still makes her lie and say she isn't.

Is Juicing right? I don't know. I wouldn't let my kids do it, put it that way. Does juicing make you a good fighter? I think we know it doesn't.

Whether they juiced or not I am not sure, its not something people talk about. With that said, it doesn't make you a judo/BJJ blackbelt, a skilled MMA fighter or in Ze Mario's case a guy who came out and made Igor Vovchanchin look like he'd never fought before.

I get the curiosity but I guess it's pointless at this stage, we should just assume its a level playing field as much as I dont like it.

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