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UnderGround Forums >> Marcos Avellan's "Black Belt Psychology"


1/19/13 1:38 AM
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Richard Tuck
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MickColins - 

Some of y'all have to learn that guilt by association doesn't fly anymore. 


This, I see no reason to drag Tom into this bullshit
1/19/13 2:16 AM
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shen
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Lot of haters on here. Personally, I'm fascinated by the topic of Black Belt psychology...

Out of curiosity, on the DVDs, does he get into the psychology behind instructors who refer to themselves as "Master"?

What's his take on that? Is it usually low self-esteem? or is it usually more of a control issue?

Always wondered about that.
1/19/13 2:21 AM
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cheesesteak
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IMO he should of just named it "david avelons grappling philosophy"...What a dinkuss.. Everything doesn't have to have a clever deceiving name to sell...but then again his mentor and someone he considers the greates man on earth is an sleazy MLM guru..
1/19/13 8:52 AM
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Naderhood
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John Clarke - I believe Tom if he says the product helped him and I'm happy for him.

However, there are probably hundreds of similar books written by actual accredited psychiatric professionals that could have also helped.

I remember the Avellans from the grappling scene in the late 90s and I remember them being decent guys. In the last year or so I've seen Marcos' attitude on this very internet change. He has come off as pushy, arrogant and very used car salesman like. I, for one, am a little insulted that he thinks we should by a cut and paste psychology system from a dude with no scholarly background on this topic when I could go to the bookstore and get the real mccoy.

I saw the original FB posts made by Marcos before they were being deleted. It was pretty nasty. I don't even like my sister and I would be pissed if he took that tone with her.

I agreed with Tom to an extent-maybe Marcos was just buddies with a bad dude. Then I read Callos' account of his email exchanges with Marcos and I lost all respect for him. Bullying a guy over email because of differing opinions is tasteless. And no, I haven't seen said emails but given all that's gone on over the last few days I'm inclined to believe Callos.

Macros should've kept his kimura trap shut but he didn't and his nasty tone and arrogant, used car salesman attitude have turned many people away from him. Phone Post
LO fuckin L Phone Post
1/19/13 9:48 AM
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Naderhood
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As far as the DVD's and sales stuff goes, if anybody has ever worked in real estate you see stuff like this all the time. I worked in real estate investment with an investors club and we always had guys that were selling their own DVD series with schemes and money making plans. Some of the stuff worked and some of it didn't. This black belt psychology stuff is just a niche market that the Avellans are trying to capitalize on. You can't blame them for being savvy businessmen, even if they are shady for it, because that's what most guys are like in sales no matter the industry. I'm sure they're very much aware that it's the white and blue belts that are their target market with this "black belt psychology" business.

Their handling of the rape thing has been nothing short of atrocious an they deserve to lose students and credibility, but as far as the business thing goes, they're doing the same thing as a lot of other industries. Phone Post
1/19/13 10:05 AM
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pancadinha
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the real humor in the video series is this,

when he was on FB arguing with Keenan's dad, one was about offering martial arts school owners business advice, he asked Tom if he owned a school, to which Tom admits "no".

Now Marcos states that him offering business advise about owning a school is like "someone that offers psychology advise while not being a trained psychologist"...all while Marcos has his signature being....BLACK BELT PSYCHOLOGY DVD's

when people caught on and started making fun of him for it, he quickly edited that out on FB
1/19/13 11:30 AM
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MountainMedic
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Drugs_Delaney - damn, thses guys are friends with everybody

Greg Nelson · Owner at Minnesota Martial Arts Academy
Do yourself a favor and get this system. The mental aspect of mma, bjj, submission grappling, self-defense, and the every day battles of your life is more important than anything else. It is not about training hard, it is about getting your whole being into your training. I will be getting this system to build onto our Academy program....can't wait! - Greg Nelson.
December 21, 2012 at 1:43pm

ummm... jupes??? you guys sitting in a half circle watching this on tuesdays & thursdays?
1/19/13 11:56 AM
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artesuavesam
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within 90 seconds you can tell its all about money. Already brought it up by that point.
Would never want to put a single penny in their pockets.
Plus, is he even qualified?
1/19/13 12:21 PM
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fight4right
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pancadinha - the real humor in the video series is this,

when he was on FB arguing with Keenan's dad, one was about offering martial arts school owners business advice, he asked Tom if he owned a school, to which Tom admits "no".

Now Marcos states that him offering business advise about owning a school is like "someone that offers psychology advise while not being a trained psychologist"...all while Marcos has his signature being....BLACK BELT PSYCHOLOGY DVD's

when people caught on and started making fun of him for it, he quickly edited that out on FB
This Phone Post
1/19/13 12:29 PM
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Trane
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Fuck this guy. I'm going to wait until I can "track" it down to download and pass it around. Thanks Avellan!
1/19/13 12:51 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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. Phone Post
1/19/13 1:27 PM
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cheesesteak
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hammerhurler - 
Naderhood -  As far as the DVD's and sales stuff goes, if anybody has ever worked in real estate you see stuff like this all the time. I worked in real estate investment with an investors club and we always had guys that were selling their own DVD series with schemes and money making plans. Some of the stuff worked and some of it didn't. This black belt psychology stuff is just a niche market that the Avellans are trying to capitalize on. You can't blame them for being savvy businessmen, even if they are shady for it, because that's what most guys are like in sales no matter the industry. I'm sure they're very much aware that it's the white and blue belts that are their target market with this "black belt psychology" business.

Their handling of the rape thing has been nothing short of atrocious an they deserve to lose students and credibility, but as far as the business thing goes, they're doing the same thing as a lot of other industries. Phone Post

Sorry, but the "everyone else is doing it" line doesn't fly, especially when we're talking about sleazy shit like this.

I work in real estate and we all laugh at those dvd's. Like the ones Mr and mrs Irving make. they are for wide eyed wanna be rich miscreants who pay fees and buy dvds that do nothing more than make Mr and Mrs Irving a little wealthier. Then they are encourage to bring in more people into the club with the promiss of making some cash for all the other miscreants they pull in. It's a joke. I'll admit that improving the game of beginners is a little bit savy, but charging them 200 for that package that should be 50 bucks is pure robbery.
1/19/13 1:45 PM
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ViciousCesar
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Voted up Mr. Clarke.

1/19/13 1:56 PM
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aaronlapoi
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I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and I initially cringed at the idea of someone advertising a psychological product without having advanced training in psychology. After thinking about it though I decided not to say anything since it's a grey area. For example, you don't need to be a lawyer to talk about law just like you don't need to have a degree in anatomy to talk about the human body. Problems can arise though when you advertise or provide (i.e., practice) a service that generally requires a certain level of qualification (e.g., education, certificate, etc) you do not have. This doesn't mean you can't provide an excellent service, but it does mean you are violating the minimum requirements for practicing that service. Being good at something just doesn't cut it. I don't know Avellan's "Black Belt Psychology" program well enough to know where he stands. If he implies that he is a "psychologist" or even practices "psychology" and he does not have the necessary credentials, than he is at risk for disciplinary/legal action. If he simply talks about psychology and makes it clear to his audience that he does not practice psychology, it's probably okay for him to do so. State laws will also dictate what he can and can't do from a legal stand point.
1/19/13 2:03 PM
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BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat
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Seems like TLI and the avellan at least have a half decent product of good instruction?? Right?? It's not like a McDojo where they give out belts. He is just marketing their moves with DVDs . No one has to buy them what's the harm?

The whole psychology thing is interdasting. Phone Post
1/19/13 2:13 PM
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torquemada
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Agree or disagree, I respect Tom coming here and replying. Phone Post
1/19/13 6:11 PM
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Philosopher
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grats on the Green Name, Ramy. Wish I had been logging in more often, I would have totally been at the XFO show had I known you were fighting.

Master Tang (waiting for screen name change)
1/20/13 5:48 AM
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MurdochIRL
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shen - Lot of haters on here. Personally, I'm fascinated by the topic of Black Belt psychology...

Out of curiosity, on the DVDs, does he get into the psychology behind instructors who refer to themselves as "Master"?

What's his take on that? Is it usually low self-esteem? or is it usually more of a control issue?

Always wondered about that.
Well played Phone Post
1/20/13 6:07 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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MountainMedic -
Drugs_Delaney - damn, thses guys are friends with everybody

Greg Nelson · Owner at Minnesota Martial Arts Academy
Do yourself a favor and get this system. The mental aspect of mma, bjj, submission grappling, self-defense, and the every day battles of your life is more important than anything else. It is not about training hard, it is about getting your whole being into your training. I will be getting this system to build onto our Academy program....can't wait! - Greg Nelson.
December 21, 2012 at 1:43pm

ummm... jupes??? you guys sitting in a half circle watching this on tuesdays & thursdays?
lol we haven't gotten any black belt psychology, and the association with Irvin's business ideas made me uncomfortable years ago but was never any of my business. I'm mostly trained by a couple black belts who are teaching a curriculum that isn't built around whatever the latest fad is Phone Post
1/20/13 6:55 PM
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soremano
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Naderhood -  As far as the DVD's and sales stuff goes, if anybody has ever worked in real estate you see stuff like this all the time. I worked in real estate investment with an investors club and we always had guys that were selling their own DVD series with schemes and money making plans. Some of the stuff worked and some of it didn't. This black belt psychology stuff is just a niche market that the Avellans are trying to capitalize on. You can't blame them for being savvy businessmen, even if they are shady for it, because that's what most guys are like in sales no matter the industry. I'm sure they're very much aware that it's the white and blue belts that are their target market with this "black belt psychology" business.

Their handling of the rape thing has been nothing short of atrocious an they deserve to lose students and credibility, but as far as the business thing goes, they're doing the same thing as a lot of other industries. Phone Post

it's just weird to see the same marketing techniques used to promote dick pills and get rich quick from your home schemes being applied to bjj

isn't it kind of degrading to the art?

1/20/13 7:10 PM
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Jasonbaldy
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I admire the Avellan brothers for their accomplishments, both on and off the mats. Marcos aggressive defense of LI has been a bit over the tops. Additionally, though I am sure Avellan has put a lot of time and energy into this BB psychology series, I don't expect it will sell well. Rule number 1, market what will sell, not what you are passionate about. I have no doubt Avellan believes in his system but for the average grappler, this has little interest, unlike the kimura trap system or another type of pure instructional.
1/20/13 7:19 PM
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soremano
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what I mean is the tacky, over the top nonsense - we are revealing secrets that have passed down from generations and now you for a low down payment can become the elite member....

isn't it kind of insulting to your intelligence? the fact that this type of marketing is successful in bjj makes me a sad panda

1/21/13 8:12 PM
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soremano
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Like a Bodhisattva that achieves enlightenment and yet returns to the wheel of incarnation, out of his compassion for all sentient beings, so Lloyd Irvin has made unspeakable amounts of money, enough to retire on many times over, but -- purely from compassion -- hath returned to help YOU make a fortune as well.

1/21/13 8:49 PM
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Roman Monstrum
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What amount of time is required before I reach L Ron Hubbard levels ? Phone Post

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