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UnderGround Forums >> Who has the facts of the LI case from 20 yrs ago ?


1/20/13 1:57 PM
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er095
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Synado - Anyone able to pull the actual transcript of the trial?

This would be great
1/20/13 2:01 PM
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KevinMcAllister
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er095 -
KevinMcAllister - 
er095 - "Both men admitted they at least wanted to have sex with the woman and that she invited them to have sex with her. Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not."
I haven't seen any article stated Irvin wanted to rape her but could not get it up what I have seen is that Irvin "wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't." Everything I read which is just this one and only article floating around seems to point out that this women accused these men of rape and LI who is one of these men was saying she was a willing particapent . The jury seems to believe it was a rape but could not convict LI because they believe he was impotent.
Yeah.

The jury came to the conclusion that a rape occurred. Some of the men were convicted. Lloyd got off because he couldn't get it up.

As far as we know...Lloyd was present at a rape and wanted to participate. His inability to do so is what saved him from being convicted like the others.

And what the hell kind of semantical argument is he wanted to have intercourse but not rape her? If intercourse is not consensual, it's rape. Lloyd not classifying his intentions as rape doesn't take away from the fact that he (allegedly) tried to participate and was present while others committed a rape. Phone Post

100% right if the intercourse was not consensual it was rape, and if couldn't get it up he should have still gone to jail. From what I read it looks like he's saying she was a willing participant but he wasn't able to get it up to participate . Then that would not be rape. Let me be 100% clear if this women did not consent to having sex with LI and he attempted to have sex with her but couldn't because he couldn't get it up he's as good as guilty to me.
But according to the trial, a rape most definitely occurred. That is where people are getting upset. Lloyd was present at a rape and did nothing to stop it, and by all accounts wanted to join in.

Some of the men were put in prison. Lloyd got off on reasonable doubt. There was not enough evidence for the jury to say what exactly Lloyd did or did not do.

"I feel the girl was raped," said Bessie Singleton, another juror. "But the room where this happened was dark, and with all that was going on, it was unclear who was doing what."

One thing we do know is that a rape occurred, Lloyd was there and he did nothing to stop it. He can call it what he wants, the facts are multiple people were charged and put in prison for the rape. Phone Post
1/20/13 2:01 PM
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KevinMcAllister
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er095 -
Synado - Anyone able to pull the actual transcript of the trial?

This would be great
I tried with no success. Phone Post
1/20/13 2:02 PM
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UGSlapshot
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Edited: 01/20/13 2:06 PM
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<blockquote>er095 - Anyone found any info on the case ? I'm talking disposition , transcript testimony ect. That's all I'm looking for.</blockquote>

The clerk of court in the county charges were filed will have it. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


1/20/13 2:05 PM
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Mulletron5000
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KevinMcAllister -
er095 -
KevinMcAllister - 
er095 - "Both men admitted they at least wanted to have sex with the woman and that she invited them to have sex with her. Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not."
I haven't seen any article stated Irvin wanted to rape her but could not get it up what I have seen is that Irvin "wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't." Everything I read which is just this one and only article floating around seems to point out that this women accused these men of rape and LI who is one of these men was saying she was a willing particapent . The jury seems to believe it was a rape but could not convict LI because they believe he was impotent.
Yeah.

The jury came to the conclusion that a rape occurred. Some of the men were convicted. Lloyd got off because he couldn't get it up.

As far as we know...Lloyd was present at a rape and wanted to participate. His inability to do so is what saved him from being convicted like the others.

And what the hell kind of semantical argument is he wanted to have intercourse but not rape her? If intercourse is not consensual, it's rape. Lloyd not classifying his intentions as rape doesn't take away from the fact that he (allegedly) tried to participate and was present while others committed a rape. Phone Post

100% right if the intercourse was not consensual it was rape, and if couldn't get it up he should have still gone to jail. From what I read it looks like he's saying she was a willing participant but he wasn't able to get it up to participate . Then that would not be rape. Let me be 100% clear if this women did not consent to having sex with LI and he attempted to have sex with her but couldn't because he couldn't get it up he's as good as guilty to me.
But according to the trial, a rape most definitely occurred. That is where people are getting upset. Lloyd was present at a rape and did nothing to stop it, and by all accounts wanted to join in.

Some of the men were put in prison. Lloyd got off on reasonable doubt. There was not enough evidence for the jury to say what exactly Lloyd did or did not do.

"I feel the girl was raped," said Bessie Singleton, another juror. "But the room where this happened was dark, and with all that was going on, it was unclear who was doing what."

One thing we do know is that a rape occurred, Lloyd was there and he did nothing to stop it. He can call it what he wants, the facts are multiple people were charged and put in prison for the rape. Phone Post
Did Lloyd know that it was a rape? It seems that he thought it was a gang bang. This whole thing sucks and he is definitely not going about it the right way. I really wish he would come out with a statement. Phone Post
1/20/13 2:12 PM
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The Ghost Of Swayze
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artesuavesam -

Another issue I have is Lloyd is right in the middle of 3 generations of rapists/pedophiles (his teacher, him, his pupils). Some fucking coincidence that eh? Rapists attract? I just don't know what to think about that? :-(


Birds of a feather rape together.
1/20/13 2:12 PM
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UGSlapshot
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KevinMcAllister - 
er095 -
Synado - Anyone able to pull the actual transcript of the trial?

This would be great
I tried with no success. Phone Post

You'll have to pay for them but they are public documents that anyone can obtain, in a lot of counties you do have to request them in person.
1/20/13 2:14 PM
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Hillary
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Source: http://articles.dailypress.com/1991-03-23/news/9103230104_1_woman-bowie-state-university-hampton-university (Let it almost load and click stop to bypass signing up).


Physician Supports Story Of Gang Rape
March 23, 1991|By RONNIE CROCKER Staff Writer
NEWPORT NEWS -- A former Hampton University student's claim that she was gang-raped in River Park Towers was supported Friday in Circuit Court by the doctor who examined her after the alleged attack.

Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''

_________________________________________________________________________

That about sums it up for me. I've seen two patients with this, both resulting from sexual abuse, and it's horrifying. Fuck this dude.
1/20/13 2:16 PM
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panic686
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MountainMedic - 
artesuavesam - he could have easily come out and corrected people.
This

If none of this was true he would've done more to counter the claims than purchaselloydIrvinRape the lloydIrvinRape.com domain name.

His silence speaks volumes in my book. Phone Post

I think what is even more telling is the fact that he bought those websites and then tried to make money with rape prevention seminars immediately following all this drama starting to come to life.
1/20/13 2:50 PM
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Renzo's Elbow
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POSTED:He admitted to not getting it up and wanting to participate but couldnt for that obvious reason. I thought I read that he admitted to holding her down. Whether or not he admitted to thinking it was a rape or just a good ol fashioned gang bang, I'm not certain.

You don't often have to "hold someone down" who is a willing participant.
1/20/13 3:31 PM
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Mulletron5000
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I dont think anyone (here) doubts a rape occurred. Phone Post
1/20/13 7:31 PM
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er095
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http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-rape-case-two-men
1/20/13 8:34 PM
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Mulletron5000
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er095 - http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-rape-case-two-men

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-rape-case-two-men Phone Post
1/20/13 9:05 PM
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time traveling 12er
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The situation is this. HE was there, he wanted to participate but was not able. The event he wanted to participate in was determined to be a rape. So whether he thought it was a rape or not, he indeed wanted to participate in a rape but could not get it up.

The loop hole he got out of was probably the fact that not everyone was in the room at the same time. So he can say he didn't know what was going on in there, didn't know she was getting hit or terrorized. So he can say he thought it was a gang bang.

The problem here is that the victim says he indeed did participate.

LI's position is that she's a dirty whore and that this was just buyers remorse after a gang bang. This is literally the only situation in which LI can come out as a decent human being.

I'm pretty sure in some circles it's pretty common to run a train on some chick and keep going once she wants to stop. Some people are cool with that. (People that say "white knight" a lot.) Some are not. The law is on the "not" side of things.



Someone I know is still in prison because he watched the door while a murder was taking place. He didn't think it was going to be a murder... he thought they were going to scare the guy. He didn't hit the guy. He didn't lure him there. He just watched the door to make sure no one came in. That, plus the fact that he didn't call the cops right after, was enough to put him in prison for most of his life on a first offense. Ignorance usually isn't a valid defense. But I'm guessing the Jurors thought enough guys were going to prison.
1/20/13 9:18 PM
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T-Ham
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The girl who was taped said Lloyd DID have sex with her.

I'm inclined to believe her. Phone Post
1/20/13 9:19 PM
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T-Ham
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Raped Phone Post
1/20/13 10:12 PM
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Mulletron5000
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T-Ham - The girl who was taped said Lloyd DID have sex with her.

I'm inclined to believe her. Phone Post
Why wasnt he charged with rape? Phone Post
1/20/13 10:12 PM
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madbanker
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Does this remind anyone of the dexter 2 or 3 seasons ago where the cult guy and his disciples raped and killed their victims? To be clear, not accusing them of that but it has the same feel. Phone Post
1/20/13 11:00 PM
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WoodenPupa
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KevinMcAllister - 
er095 - "Both men admitted they at least wanted to have sex with the woman and that she invited them to have sex with her. Gatling said he had oral sex with her. Irvin said he tried to have sex with her but could not."
I haven't seen any article stated Irvin wanted to rape her but could not get it up what I have seen is that Irvin "wanted to have intercourse with her but couldn't." Everything I read which is just this one and only article floating around seems to point out that this women accused these men of rape and LI who is one of these men was saying she was a willing particapent . The jury seems to believe it was a rape but could not convict LI because they believe he was impotent.
Yeah.

The jury came to the conclusion that a rape occurred. Some of the men were convicted. Lloyd got off because he couldn't get it up.

As far as we know...Lloyd was present at a rape and wanted to participate. His inability to do so is what saved him from being convicted like the others.

And what the hell kind of semantical argument is he wanted to have intercourse but not rape her? If intercourse is not consensual, it's rape. Lloyd not classifying his intentions as rape doesn't take away from the fact that he (allegedly) tried to participate and was present while others committed a rape. Phone Post

I think we need to avoid taking the dimp dick story at face value. Obviously it makes him look vile even if true, as intention was there. But in fact it looks as if Lloyd changed his story. This article, which came out at the start of the trial, states:

"Gatling and Irvin do not deny having sex with the woman, attorney Ron Smith told the six men and six women jurors at the outset of the trial, but he claimed the rape charges "are attempts to preserve her reputation."

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-rape-case-two-men

I won't repeat my 17,000 page analysis here, but those interested can check it out on the War Machine Accuses Lloyd thread, maybe around page 16.

The basic idea is that, based on the report above, Lloyd admitted to having sexual contact with her, like everyone else who was charged did. But if that report is right, he must have changed his story at the last minute and made the limp dick claim.

The girl claimed he DID penetrate her, and was quite sure of that. The jury didn't have corroborative testimony though, unlike for the other accused, who all admitted to sexual contact and stayed with their stories.

It's very likely Lloyd did penetrate her, and we're not confined to legal standards of proof here. So I think everybody should stop doing him the favor of taking that story at face value. Because even though it makes him look bad, the more likely version of the story is worse.
1/20/13 11:04 PM
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WoodenPupa
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It's worth repeating the crucial part:

"Gatling and Irvin do not deny having sex with the woman, attorney Ron Smith told the six men and six women jurors at the outset of the trial, but he claimed the rape charges "are attempts to preserve her reputation."

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-rape-case-two-men
1/21/13 5:12 AM
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time traveling 12er
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Interesting. So he indeed admits to having had sex with her, but changed his story. It could have started as a gangbang, then just turned in to a gang rape once everyone got their blood up and the chick no longer wanted to be a part of it. According to the medical examiner the physiological response indicates forcible intercourse.

As for preserving reputation, being the victim of a gangrape isn't exactly a badge of honor. If she wanted to preserve her reputation she would have just went home and hoped it didn't get around. It doesn't seem like a chick with buyers remorse would go to the hospital right away.

Sort of like in the Kobe Bryant case. The chick texts some friends bragging about it, goes home, hangs out. Then later when her mom freaks out and tells her she was raped, decides she was raped. Lol, even the cops had to explain to her she wasn't raped before she changed her story. That's what a case of buyers remorse looks like.
1/21/13 5:38 AM
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WoodenPupa
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"It could have started as a gangbang, then just turned in to a gang rape once everyone got their blood up and the chick no longer wanted to be a part of it."

A good hypothesis in my opinion and one I find plausible (I certainly don't absolutely insist on it---or any of the links in the long chains of inferences I make in the War Machine Accuses thread). It would explain much of what was testified, though of course not everything.

It seems that some people have a hard time getting out of binary thinking. They believe that if a girl was willing to go some of the gangbang way, she must have been willing to go all of it, or tolerate/enjoy everything, no matter how high the ante was upped, who showed up or what went on.

Frighteningly, some don't understand that it doesn't matter what kind of girl is saying no, or when she says it. If a porn star tells you to stop, you stop. If you're being pushed off, you have to take a time out and ask her what's up.

Excellent points in the rest of your post.

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