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UnderGround Forums >> Disappointed Pros are quiet about TLI


1/19/13 10:57 AM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post



i wouldnt compare a McDs worker with a teacher of BJJ who is a role model and leader.A person at McDs is not a leader he is not someone his student look up to as well as the community.I didnt say every fighter I said no UFC fighter has said a peep except you.Yes I would like to see some prominant names such as yourself speak out against a rapist who has students who have raped who have brutally raped a young female student.

so u r saying a trainer is culpable for all the sins of those traneing under him? do u even trane?

1/19/13 10:58 AM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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because its not worth addressing. the two that raped the girl. yes its bad but those guys are nobodies and it has nothing to do with mma.  as for irvin so he was witn people that raped a girl 22 years ago. repeat that to yourself. 22 years ago.  no rape.  why make a bold moral stand about that now? what purpose does that serve.


justice

if you won't fight for it, then you don't deserve to have it.

what justice? are fighters all part of law enforcement.  and i dont know the whole story but wasnt it investigated? rape of course is bad but if someone does somethung stupid over two decades ago and were investigated and or served their penalty they should be blacklisted for life?


in this case yes and please dont post anymore on this thread

1. its my sworn duty to battle ignorance on the ug

2. youre not the boss of me

1/19/13 11:06 AM
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BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat
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I wouldn't buy Llyod Irvin anything Phone Post
1/19/13 12:50 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post



i wouldnt compare a McDs worker with a teacher of BJJ who is a role model and leader.A person at McDs is not a leader he is not someone his student look up to as well as the community.I didnt say every fighter I said no UFC fighter has said a peep except you.Yes I would like to see some prominant names such as yourself speak out against a rapist who has students who have raped who have brutally raped a young female student.

so u r saying a trainer is culpable for all the sins of those traneing under him? do u even trane?


im a purple belt and trained for 7 years what about you ? (crickets ???? ah Lloyd did the rape or tried but was limp dicked.If the trainer is there and allows it to happen like Limpy Lloyd yes hes just as guilty.Plus the girl said he raped her
1/19/13 12:51 PM
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Winston Wolf
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because its not worth addressing. the two that raped the girl. yes its bad but those guys are nobodies and it has nothing to do with mma.  as for irvin so he was witn people that raped a girl 22 years ago. repeat that to yourself. 22 years ago.  no rape.  why make a bold moral stand about that now? what purpose does that serve.


justice

if you won't fight for it, then you don't deserve to have it.

what justice? are fighters all part of law enforcement.  and i dont know the whole story but wasnt it investigated? rape of course is bad but if someone does somethung stupid over two decades ago and were investigated and or served their penalty they should be blacklisted for life?


in this case yes and please dont post anymore on this thread

1. its my sworn duty to battle ignorance on the ug

2. youre not the boss of me


ur the biggest troll on the forum Good thing they got rid of vote down count or you would be close to 1000
1/19/13 2:54 PM
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Brian J DSouza
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Evzey -  I'd also like to know why no MMA journalist has tried to look into this matter Phone Post

http://www.fightopinion.com/2013/01/12/court-lloyd-irvin-students-rape/

http://www.cagepotato.com/so-i-guess-we-should-talk-about-the-whole-lloyd-irvin-rape-thing/

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Report-Two-Men-Arrested-for-Alleged-Rape-of-Fellow-Lloyd-Irvin-Student-on-New-Years-Eve-48967

And just one of MANY stories from BloodyElbow.com:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/18/3891382/gracie-brothers-lloyd-irvin-student-rape-case-bjj

I would post more, but I don't have enough time.

1/19/13 2:59 PM
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Winston Wolf
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ok im wrong about that but dont go to those pages.
1/19/13 3:03 PM
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Brian J DSouza
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Edited: 01/19/13 3:06 PM
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Winston Wolf - ok im wrong about that but dont go to those pages.

 

The big question here is not about holding the UFC, Zuffa fighters or the media accountable. I'd like to turn this around and ask you a question: What will you do to prevent sexual abuse or rape in the future?

EDIT: Also, what kinds of things can you do or contribute to help victims?

 

 

1/19/13 3:49 PM
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Smith1234
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GayGuardMooseSaucy -  The mma/BJJ media and community would rather protect Lloyd Irvin (this site included) than get the story out there like it should be. Phone Post

Yeah I guess the lesson here is if you tweet about rape you get massacred, but if you're involved in rape it's all good
Great point. Forgot about the tweet incident. You get fired for tweeting. Being there and at least somewhat involved is ok though.... Phone Post
1/19/13 3:49 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Winston Wolf - ok im wrong about that but dont go to those pages.

 

The big question here is not about holding the UFC, Zuffa fighters or the media accountable. I'd like to turn this around and ask you a question: What will you do to prevent sexual abuse or rape in the future?

EDIT: Also, what kinds of things can you do or contribute to help victims?

 

 


first off i was wrong about the media I will admit that But would have liked to see some Pro fighters or UFC reps speak on this But Im a nobody and in no position to make demands this is just a thread.What will I personally do ?well I have offered my services to UFC and Cindy O personally gave Dana my resume that I personally made for him.But he never responded.
1/19/13 3:51 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Evzey -  I'd also like to know why no MMA journalist has tried to look into this matter Phone Post

http://www.fightopinion.com/2013/01/12/court-lloyd-irvin-students-rape/

http://www.cagepotato.com/so-i-guess-we-should-talk-about-the-whole-lloyd-irvin-rape-thing/

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Report-Two-Men-Arrested-for-Alleged-Rape-of-Fellow-Lloyd-Irvin-Student-on-New-Years-Eve-48967

And just one of MANY stories from BloodyElbow.com:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/18/3891382/gracie-brothers-lloyd-irvin-student-rape-case-bjj

I would post more, but I don't have enough time.


It is being covered by other sotes/mma journalists.

It is being Covered UP by this website. How UG blog has not done an artucle is beyond me.

The post by Avellan, thatMA wanted to be up, got erased. The comments by head trainer calling the victim a dirty whore got erases. Lloydirvinrape.com thread got erased.

Posts of fighters giving their opiniins got erased.

This site has made a thorough attemp to hide this saga. It is only because the smart and ethical people of the UG refuse to let it die. As we should.

agreed
1/19/13 4:01 PM
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Brian J DSouza
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Offered your services to the UFC to do what, exactly, for Zuffa? What does that have to do with the victims, who you rage on and on about defending in this thread?

1/19/13 4:01 PM
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Smith1234
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I get it that people say not all fighters should speak out against this. But neither do random posters have to speak out against it.

Yet we are. There are tons of people livid about the Ohio HS football team, but specific to this thread there are a ton of us livid at Lloyd and Avellan for that matter.

Pro fighters should be speaking out against this not because they are pro fighters. But because they are human beings like the rest of us.

The participation rate of pros is close to zero. Fans much higher. Why? Phone Post
1/19/13 4:06 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Winston Wolf - ok im wrong about that but dont go to those pages.

 

The big question here is not about holding the UFC, Zuffa fighters or the media accountable. I'd like to turn this around and ask you a question: What will you do to prevent sexual abuse or rape in the future?

EDIT: Also, what kinds of things can you do or contribute to help victims?

 

 


first off i was wrong about the media I will admit that But would have liked to see some Pro fighters or UFC reps speak on this But Im a nobody and in no position to make demands this is just a thread.What will I personally do ?well I have offered my services to UFC and Cindy O personally gave Dana my resume that I personally made for him.But he never responded.

next time try not writing your resume in crayon

1/19/13 4:08 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Winston Wolf - 
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Tom Lawlor - 

Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post



i wouldnt compare a McDs worker with a teacher of BJJ who is a role model and leader.A person at McDs is not a leader he is not someone his student look up to as well as the community.I didnt say every fighter I said no UFC fighter has said a peep except you.Yes I would like to see some prominant names such as yourself speak out against a rapist who has students who have raped who have brutally raped a young female student.

so u r saying a trainer is culpable for all the sins of those traneing under him? do u even trane?


im a purple belt and trained for 7 years what about you ? (crickets ???? ah Lloyd did the rape or tried but was limp dicked.If the trainer is there and allows it to happen like Limpy Lloyd yes hes just as guilty.Plus the girl said he raped her

i wrestled since middle school and started bjj in 2002 son.

 

and presumably lloyd was tried and exonerated or served his time.  rape is bad but at what point do u allow him to go on with his life.

1/19/13 4:12 PM
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FJJ828
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
Winston Wolf - 
Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
Winston Wolf - 
Tom Lawlor - 

Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post



i wouldnt compare a McDs worker with a teacher of BJJ who is a role model and leader.A person at McDs is not a leader he is not someone his student look up to as well as the community.I didnt say every fighter I said no UFC fighter has said a peep except you.Yes I would like to see some prominant names such as yourself speak out against a rapist who has students who have raped who have brutally raped a young female student.

so u r saying a trainer is culpable for all the sins of those traneing under him? do u even trane?


im a purple belt and trained for 7 years what about you ? (crickets ???? ah Lloyd did the rape or tried but was limp dicked.If the trainer is there and allows it to happen like Limpy Lloyd yes hes just as guilty.Plus the girl said he raped her

i wrestled since middle school and started bjj in 2002 son.

 

and presumably lloyd was tried and exonerated or served his time.  rape is bad but at what point do u allow him to go on with his life.


Apparently, not soon enough for you.

This will end when it ends.

1/19/13 4:23 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Winston Wolf - 
Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
Winston Wolf - 
Tom Lawlor - 

Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post



i wouldnt compare a McDs worker with a teacher of BJJ who is a role model and leader.A person at McDs is not a leader he is not someone his student look up to as well as the community.I didnt say every fighter I said no UFC fighter has said a peep except you.Yes I would like to see some prominant names such as yourself speak out against a rapist who has students who have raped who have brutally raped a young female student.

so u r saying a trainer is culpable for all the sins of those traneing under him? do u even trane?


im a purple belt and trained for 7 years what about you ? (crickets ???? ah Lloyd did the rape or tried but was limp dicked.If the trainer is there and allows it to happen like Limpy Lloyd yes hes just as guilty.Plus the girl said he raped her

i wrestled since middle school and started bjj in 2002 son.

 

and presumably lloyd was tried and exonerated or served his time.  rape is bad but at what point do u allow him to go on with his life.


who do u train under ?who gave you your belt ?Got my purple from Serras but havent grappled in while But will start up again soon.As forLloyd Im just one person i have no say in TLI
1/19/13 4:26 PM
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spartancs
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spartancs - 

Some guys do what they think is right and let the chips fall where they may, other guys run a self interest calculation first.


there shouldn't be any calculation when it comes to rape and pedophilia. its the most clean cut issue out there as far as im concerned. there is no calculation or justification for these acts. everyone has at least a mother, a wife or girlfriend or sister or a daughter or a niece. its the same when its comes to pedophiles, we were all kids once. if you don't see and understand this point, i have to question if you are an adult. killers and murderers can be justified more than rapists and pedophiles can.

I agree with you.  

This event will smoke out the guys who are wired like Ryan Hall and the guys who are wired like Marcos Avellan & Phil Proctor.  

1/19/13 4:34 PM
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JOESONDO
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It's easy to say as some faceless, nameless person on the Internet. You have nothing to lose. Why should they get involved when they had nothing to do with the situation and lots to lose? They don't know the situation, they were not involved and they are staying out of it. LI is deeply involved in the industry, is affiliated with countless people. Why burn bridges that you may need later when there is nothing to be gained from it?

They are no more obligated to get involved in this situation as anybody else is. Phone Post
1/19/13 4:43 PM
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Forrest Gimp
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Tom Lawlor -  Rape is a terrible offense and if it was indeed a gang rape attempt then Lloyd screwed up bigtime.
There you happy? Not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish but if just because someone is involved in the same sport as someone else doesn't mean everyone in that sport needs to comment on the matter.

By your logic whenever a McDonalds worker rapes someone then every McDonalds worker should make a statement on it.

I think we can agree almost no fighter is supporting rape just because they haven't been blasting TLi on twitter/fb/UG/etc Phone Post

In this particular case, the "CEO of McDonald's" wanted to particate in a gang-rape (did participate according to the victim). Two top representatives high up in the "McDonald's hierarchy" were caught on security-camera raping a fellow student lower down in the "McDonald's hierarchy". In addition, a "McDonald's manager" said the 1990 victim was probably a dirty whore that got a train run on her, and another evangelist Avellan has come off less than spectacular. So I wouldn't call them regular "McDonald's workers". In fact, some of them are rather prominent figures in a sport. If that doesn't require some form of counter-balance, I don't know what does - thank god for Gracies and Ryan Hall.
1/19/13 5:06 PM
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Winston Wolf
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JOESONDO -  It's easy to say as some faceless, nameless person on the Internet. You have nothing to lose. Why should they get involved when they had nothing to do with the situation and lots to lose? They don't know the situation, they were not involved and they are staying out of it. LI is deeply involved in the industry, is affiliated with countless people. Why burn bridges that you may need later when there is nothing to be gained from it?

They are no more obligated to get involved in this situation as anybody else is. Phone Post

i agree its much easier for me to say than a known person .I agree nobody is obligated That said Im still suprised not as many prominant folk have spoken out
1/19/13 5:16 PM
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DojoJay
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No, I'm saying a cause is a cause. Many UFC fighters HAVE stood up against sexual abuse and taken an open stand, like Frank Shamrock and Ronda Rousey.

In terms of them getting fired, no, that's not likely (but remember the case of Todd Duffee). More likely, its unwanted attention over an issue Zuffa would rather not have attached or associated to MMA/UFC.

Think about it.


If you have to think about it, there's something in you that's detached you from your humanity.

They may TRY to paint everything gray, but some of us still recognize the existence of black and white.

1/19/13 8:10 PM
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Brian J DSouza
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Winston Wolf, are you hoping to get a job out of Zuffa from this thread? Is that where your anger is coming from?

DojoJay, have you seen how Tom Callos and Chloe were attacked by many people for speaking out? Do you think that the UFC fighters I cited (Frank Shamrock and Ronda Rousey) don't support the victims of sexual abuse? 

There are a lot of books written about abuse in the library, and many experts within their respective fields. Instead of lashing out on an internet thread, those who are concerned--really concerned--can spend months or years learning and understanding the issues, and applying themselves in useful ways to bring about change.

Trying to recruit (or in this case, shame) a (minor, in the case of most UFC fighters) celebrity into a "cause of the minute" will not have results in the short-term or long-term. 

1/19/13 8:41 PM
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BigSleep
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Winston Wolf, are you hoping to get a job out of Zuffa from this thread? Is that where your anger is coming from?

DojoJay, have you seen how Tom Callos and Chloe were attacked by many people for speaking out? Do you think that the UFC fighters I cited (Frank Shamrock and Ronda Rousey) don't support the victims of sexual abuse? 

There are a lot of books written about abuse in the library, and many experts within their respective fields. Instead of lashing out on an internet thread, those who are concerned--really concerned--can spend months or years learning and understanding the issues, and applying themselves in useful ways to bring about change.

Trying to recruit (or in this case, shame) a (minor, in the case of most UFC fighters) celebrity into a "cause of the minute" will not have results in the short-term or long-term. 


Off base all the way through this post. Weird question to ask WW. Peopl can still read books and do other things AND ask fighters to speak out.

Recruiting others to speak out is a great way to get results/attention/action in both the short term and the long term.

The question for you is what are you trying to achieve here?
1/19/13 8:51 PM
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Tom Lawlor
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Smith1234 - I get it that people say not all fighters should speak out against this. But neither do random posters have to speak out against it.

Yet we are. There are tons of people livid about the Ohio HS football team, but specific to this thread there are a ton of us livid at Lloyd and Avellan for that matter.

Pro fighters should be speaking out against this not because they are pro fighters. But because they are human beings like the rest of us.

The participation rate of pros is close to zero. Fans much higher. Why? Phone Post
Is the participation rate really that high? There are an infinite number of posters on the UG who aren't fighters compared to the ones that are. You guys act like every UFC fighter is a member of this board and peruses the internet looking for the best chance to speak out against Lloyd Irvin.

The truth is most UFC fighters don't come on this board because of attitudes like this, questioning fighters morality because they aren't speaking out on a situation in which its possible they don't know all the facts. The only people who maybe you should be looking for statements from are the ones who are directly in contact with TLI. Even then, those people don't owe you anything in the way of an explanation if they don't want to give one. Phone Post

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