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UnderGround Forums >> Bellator coverage in the UG Blog


1/20/13 11:21 PM
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liquidrob
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nick diaz nut hugger - 
liquidrob - People who actually watch Bellator, 1.1 million

Bellator gets sandbagged and only gets 1 thread for the night of the fights, others already said it better

Anyway, do what you do, Chris already said what it was all about "We take care of who takes care of us"
Quote the post and link the thread, please Phone Post

Exact quote

"Chris -
we support the people who support us."

1/20/13 11:24 PM
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vaginal tear
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liquidrob -
nick diaz nut hugger - 
liquidrob - People who actually watch Bellator, 1.1 million

Bellator gets sandbagged and only gets 1 thread for the night of the fights, others already said it better

Anyway, do what you do, Chris already said what it was all about "We take care of who takes care of us"
Quote the post and link the thread, please Phone Post

Exact quote

"Chris -
we support the people who support us."

That doesn't really work.

"Fuck the UG" Abraham Lincoln.

See how you need a link? Phone Post
1/20/13 11:25 PM
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liquidrob
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http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&thread=2118119
1/20/13 11:26 PM
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liquidrob
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search "Why Isn't Bellator on Spike a Sticky?"

Quote on the first page
1/20/13 11:27 PM
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Poindexter
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People like to bitch. 

1/20/13 11:28 PM
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hubris
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"Chris -
we support the people who support us."


seriously? lol
1/20/13 11:31 PM
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UltimatePower
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Edited: 01/20/13 11:31 PM
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Exhibit A. Good find on that link.
1/21/13 5:04 AM
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PrettyBoy
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nick diaz nut hugger -

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&thread=2118119

I took a screen shot of the quote just in case it gets deleted, but to be fair, this statement could have meant a lot of things.

No it meant one thing it was a direct response to me. Read what I said, in context it's pretty clear what he is saying.

This isn't my site so I guess we have to respect how Chris and Kirik want to run it but it upsets me.

This is not ESPN!!! This is the UG. This community was forged by hardcore fans trading tapes and staying up all hours of the night to try and get a play by play. No one cares about posting pictures we bought Blue names for years to keep our community together.

Now we have Top 10 fighters competing on live cable in 80 million homes and we ignore them because their promotion didn't "support" the site?? What planet am I on? We have live MMA on Fridays on AXSTV and not one news story gets posted. Not one discussion sticky made.

What happened to you guys? When did you become suits? When an angry parent writes a book or a rape occurs, let's talk about it so we can remind ourselves what values true martial artists should hold and learn and heal.

This place should be about knowledge. and information for all MMA(mixedmartialarts.com) right. If casual fans don't know WSOF/Bellator/MFC/RFA or whatever else is on it shouldn't be because this site refuses to acknowledge they exist. Just put the content out there. Run the stories. It's the right thing to do. Phone Post
1/21/13 7:58 AM
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liquidrob
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Ttt
1/21/13 8:13 AM
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Joe_Drogan420
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Legalize bellator on the UG kirik.
1/21/13 9:23 AM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor

The idea that things get more views because there are more stories on it is not borne out by my experience. For example, there is more general coverage of regulation in the UG Blog than on any site in our space, and the views are very low. I have done 100s of blog entries on regulation, and I would say the cumulative effect on the UG is 0. I just do it because I believe in it.

I also believe in technique. That is what the UG was born from - The Art of NHB Fighting on aol in 1995 or so, which had the sport's first Technique of the Week. IT WOULD BE MY DREAM to have the UG super interested in new and developing techniques in the sport. I tried for years and years and years to get that going, but failed. So I can't push every single thing I believe in. The UG Blog puts up 14 stories a day, so it is a 0 sum game - everything up means something else doesn't go up, so I have to balance things.

If I did say six UG Blog pieces for every Bellator, it would not increase interest in the results. The UG Blog follows what the UG is interested in, it doesn't lead it. The UG is not a sheep being led around by the UG shepherd. UG Blog is more like the dog that gets kicked a lot, in fact.

That said, I am always looking for unique content. If someone has something compelling to say about any non UFC events, I am very happy to run it.

And if Bjorn Rebney wants to start coming on the UG, that would be completely freakin awesome.

As far as the Lloyd stuff, I used to cover crime stories a lot, but a couple of years ago a fighter I respect enormously reached out to me and related how he is constantly approached, or I guess reproached by people who think MMA is a felony crime in progress, basically, and he asked me to stop covering every time a fighter is accused of some felony. I thought about it really hard, and realized every time some guy with one ammy fight injures someone in a brawl, the news identifies the guy as an MMA figure, and trumpets that. I don't want to be a part of that; instead I want to expose what the media is doing.

I do hope Lloyd releases a statement soon, and will publish that, and may do one or two more, but I am not here to look under the sport's rug every day. Already the Lloyd thing is descending really quickly into people releasing damaging things about each other. Although I would get massive views for pieces speculating about which Lloyd detractor is engaged in what anti-social activities, and which Llloyd instructor did what to who when, it is not what we do.

You guys have no idea how much crazy stuff goes on. I could effortlessly turn the UG Blog into a TMZ, and undoubtedly get over 100,000,000 more views each year. People love to read about drug use and DUIs and bisexuality and drug dealing and porn videos and divorces and that whole side of the human experience, but I have chosen not to.

That decision goes back to the 90s. I almost had to throw down with a UG member and UFC contender who was chasing women at shows and someone posted about it (I saw the thread, and, not realizing he was married, thought it was pretty cool). But his wife saw it, and there were some chairs knocked over before it settled down.

I don't know the secret to success, but I do know the secret the failure, and that is trying to be all things to everyone. So there are things we are going to try to cover a lot, and things we are going to minimize, and that is the way it is right now. And those standards are subject to change, so, please, keep this conversation going. I am deeply interested in your opinions on it.

1/21/13 9:36 AM
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Joe_Drogan420
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"Keep the conversation going. I'm interested in your opinions. I'm just not going put them into action."

- Kirik a.k.a. Keith Kizer of the UG
1/21/13 10:05 AM
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Garv
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Edited: 01/21/13 10:06 AM
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Fightersbook.com, Get Connected

"If I did say six UG Blog pieces for every Bellator, it would not increase interest in the results. The UG Blog follows what the UG is interested in, it doesn't lead it."

I don't think the big complaint is lack of UG Blog pieces for Bellator, it was about a sticky for for it.  Bellator was holding a fight card on a thursday, a night not usual for MMA.  They were also making their debut on Spike, which is a major step forward for the sport of MMA going mainstream.  This site used to celebrate the sport of MMA going mainstream, so Bellator definitely deserved a sticky.  Not after complaints about not having one.  It should be there.  Bellator on Spike is a big deal for the sport of MMA. 

If you only went by what the UG is interested in, then Dana's mom's book would be featured prominently.  Instead, the topic itself was banned.  I understand that you don't want a TMZ site here, and I am with you on that, but to say that you follow what the UG is interested in, then TMZ kind of stuff would be featured much more than it is.

But there's a bigger concern here than that.  It's the view counts themselves.  You cite the view counts as though they are a true representation of what is going on.  But they are not.  After the last site renovation, the view counts went through the roof.  It was very noticible to long time UGers.  Someone even made a thread about it back then, and Chris came on that thread and said it was a "glitch" that was being worked on.  That glitch never got fixed.

You can see what I mean by taking an old thread and clicking on it.  Chances are you won't see it increase by one view.  It will increase anywhere from 1 to 5 views.  I just tried this on an old thread and that's exactly what happened.

That wouldn't be a big deal, but if business members are paying for an expectation of views, it's important to be honest about what their money is buying.  Plus, how can you cite thread views as any indication of anything when their numbers are so skewed?

I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on the site, it's still my Internet go-to site and always will be.  But martial arts is about honor and integrity.  The view count gltich detracts from that greatly.  If it's an honest mistake, that's one thing.  If it was done purposely, it's dishonest at best and illegal at worst--if it's being used as a sales pitch to business members and advertisers.

1/21/13 10:30 AM
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Kirik
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Vitor just bingo'd my buddy Bisping -  All I know is, this is an mma site. There's two major promotions. They should both be covered. The only thing I saw that night was the results on the news, that's it. No interviews, no "Curran battles five rounds to victory". I'd rather have real news than "Tito says this, new and in proved" type shit.

If people don't read em, who cares? It's news. Phone Post

I care - it's how I eat.

1/21/13 10:36 AM
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UGCTT_5 for fighting
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Vitor just bingo'd my buddy Bisping - All I know is, this is an mma site. There's two major promotions. They should both be covered. The only thing I saw that night was the results on the news, that's it. No interviews, no "Curran battles five rounds to victory". I'd rather have real news than "Tito says this, new and in proved" type shit.

If people don't read em, who cares? It's news. Phone Post
This. Phone Post
1/21/13 10:39 AM
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Joe_Drogan420
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Oh yeah, the Bellator news just burns my eyes. I just can't bring myself to force my eyes upon it.

Please Kirik, don't force this stuff that we're obviously not asking for onto us.

Save us.
1/21/13 10:42 AM
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Kirik
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Edited: 01/21/13 10:42 AM
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The UnderGround, Mayor
Garv - 

"If I did say six UG Blog pieces for every Bellator, it would not increase interest in the results. The UG Blog follows what the UG is interested in, it doesn't lead it."

I don't think the big complaint is lack of UG Blog pieces for Bellator, it was about a sticky for for it.  Bellator was holding a fight card on a thursday, a night not usual for MMA.  They were also making their debut on Spike, which is a major step forward for the sport of MMA going mainstream.  This site used to celebrate the sport of MMA going mainstream, so Bellator definitely deserved a sticky.  Not after complaints about not having one.  It should be there.  Bellator on Spike is a big deal for the sport of MMA.

If you only went by what the UG is interested in, then Dana's mom's book would be featured prominently.  Instead, the topic itself was banned.  I understand that you don't want a TMZ site here, and I am with you on that, but to say that you follow what the UG is interested in, then TMZ kind of stuff would be featured much more than it is.

But there's a bigger concern here than that.  It's the view counts themselves.  You cite the view counts as though they are a true representation of what is going on.  But they are not.  After the last site renovation, the view counts went through the roof.  It was very noticible to long time UGers.  Someone even made a thread about it back then, and Chris came on that thread and said it was a "glitch" that was being worked on.  That glitch never got fixed.

You can see what I mean by taking an old thread and clicking on it.  Chances are you won't see it increase by one view.  It will increase anywhere from 1 to 5 views.  I just tried this on an old thread and that's exactly what happened.

That wouldn't be a big deal, but if business members are paying for an expectation of views, it's important to be honest about what their money is buying.  Plus, how can you cite thread views as any indication of anything when their numbers are so skewed?

I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on the site, it's still my Internet go-to site and always will be.  But martial arts is about honor and integrity.  The view count gltich detracts from that greatly.  If it's an honest mistake, that's one thing.  If it was done purposely, it's dishonest at best and illegal at worst--if it's being used as a sales pitch to business members and advertisers.

 

Every Bellator get stickied.

 

The view counts changed when we started caching. Although they are skewed up, the relative numbers are correct. Thus there is no relevance to a discussion of what topics get more views. It is relevant for business members, and a correction down is on a long list of things that I am paying $125 per hour to correct, but the list is long, and the things I am trying to do are many.

As I tried and I guess failed to convey, there is a balance between what people want and what I consider to be vital and legitimate and good for the sport. If people are excited about UFC and not Bellator, DREAM, ONE FC, WSOF, etc, I am not going to try to push them into being excited. It wouldn't work, and I don't see the need.

I LOVE the fact that the best fighters are in one promotion and get to fight each other all the time. I HATED it when the best of the Pride and the best of the UFC couldn't fight each other. That is how every succesful sport in the world works.

Please keep the comments coming however critical; they are appreciated and deeply. I am not just saying that - at least half the improvements here are due to complaints.

So kvetch on UG :-)

 

1/21/13 10:43 AM
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Kirik
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urbandenim - 
nick diaz nut hugger -

It is so tempting to twist the ever-loving fuck out of the message of this thread, but alas, I will not, as Mr Kirik Jenness is a good and honorable man. Plus, I don't do stuff like that.

Thank you, Kirik.

Sucked any dick lately? Phone Post

You are being stupid.

1/21/13 10:45 AM
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Kirik
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Vitor just bingo'd my buddy Bisping - 
Vitor just bingo'd my buddy Bisping -
Kirik -
Vitor just bingo'd my buddy Bisping -  All I know is, this is an mma site. There's two major promotions. They should both be covered. The only thing I saw that night was the results on the news, that's it. No interviews, no "Curran battles five rounds to victory". I'd rather have real news than "Tito says this, new and in proved" type shit.

If people don't read em, who cares? It's news. Phone Post

I care - it's how I eat.

I didn't mean it like that, boss Phone Post
And not for nothing but does the news really dictate how much you make? I don't know much about it but I thought it was all the subscribers... Phone Post

We have several revenue streams. UG memberships are a main one, but google ads are larger. The more people read, the more ads are served.

1/21/13 10:46 AM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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Publicity works when you work it.

You make the audience perceive it to have value.

Look, Invicta spends money here, posts in the forum, and has a presence which affords them some coverage.

There is no way Invicta fights are garnering more interest or viewers than did Bellator on Spike or else Invicta would have a tv deal.

The reason everyone cares about Ronda so much is because she has been promoted so well.

As a result, coverage becomes a must as folks believe she is important enough to follow.

Invicta has not been promoted outside of here.

I've never seen a tv spot, never seen a banner ad and have yet to see a tweet or FB post about them.

The only times I hear of Invicta are here with Rowdy Bec posting, ShoeMoney demanding numbers, Cindy O defending numbers and news from Shannon Knapp.

Bellator on here is evil Bjorn hurting Alvarez.

Outside of here I see Bellator tv spots and banner ads and even mentions tied in with pro wrestling.

You have to deliver what the audience wants but only after they have been told what they want.

Bellator just hasn't had a presence here or enough of one elsewhere to merit such coverage but Invicta is not garnering coverage outside of here at such a disproportionate rate. Phone Post
1/21/13 10:48 AM
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Kirik
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Joe_Drogan420 - Oh yeah, the Bellator news just burns my eyes. I just can't bring myself to force my eyes upon it.

Please Kirik, don't force this stuff that we're obviously not asking for onto us.

Save us.

The problem with MMA news used to be that there was too little. I remember sitting on ADCombat and hitting refresh over and over, for hours, to get early ADCC results. Now I could consume MMA news 24 hours a day, and never reach the end.

The UG Blog attempts - among other things - to seive (sp?) through all news out there, 100s of google news alerts, rss feeds, the UG posts, and offer the sport's content that the members find most compelling.

1/21/13 10:48 AM
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liquidrob
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Don't be late on the train Bellator Kirik, Bellator is going to keep getting a million people a week, actually viewers

All abroad! Choooooooo chooooooo

This Thursday night on spike

Ben Askren vs Psycho
King Mo
The UGs own Ben 'Killa B" Saunders
Lima

1/21/13 10:48 AM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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Ring of Honor pro wrestling is an internet fan's delight while TNA garners hatred from those same fans.

However ROH draws 300 fans, makes no money, has an awful distribution deal.

TNA is on Spike, draws 1.6 million viewers a week and has Hulk Hogan and Sting.

If this were a pro wrestling place, it would be ROH getting coverage and TNA treated like Elite XC. Phone Post
1/21/13 11:12 AM
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Kirik
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JeffersonDArcyChoke -  Ring of Honor pro wrestling is an internet fan's delight while TNA garners hatred from those same fans.

However ROH draws 300 fans, makes no money, has an awful distribution deal.

TNA is on Spike, draws 1.6 million viewers a week and has Hulk Hogan and Sting.

If this were a pro wrestling place, it would be ROH getting coverage and TNA treated like Elite XC. Phone Post

I don't follow, but want to.

If there was an MMA show getting 300 asses in seats, with a bad distribution deal, making no money, it will get a lot of attention from the hardcore fan base?

1/21/13 11:13 AM
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Krs10KO.com
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liquidrob - Don't be late on the train Bellator Kirik, Bellator is going to keep getting a million people a week, actually viewers

All abroad! Choooooooo chooooooo

This Thursday night on spike

Ben Askren vs Psycho
King Mo
The UGs own Ben 'Killa B" Saunders
Lima


And dont forget Brent Weedman, he's a UGer too!  Well, he admits more of a lurker though. 


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