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1/21/13 1:29 PM
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nowaydo
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This part of an article by former UFC fighter,Tim Credeur.
I like it. Reminds me of my wrestling days.

“Hard Drilling” is the key conditioning element to maximize Sport Performance

To truly gain speed, power and skill with a technique you must begin “HARD DRILLING”. “HARD DRILLING” is when you have already practiced a move to the point that the technique is second nature and now you can begin the process of practicing the technique at 100% speed against a cooperative partner that is allowing them to work on the movement but at the same time giving them a “realistic look” while there doing it.

HARD DRILLING must be composed of 3 elements

1. You must be working at Full Speed

2. Your technique must be flawless every time

3. You should be sweating and working at a pace that doesn’t allow you to talk while your HARD DRILLING.

This type of Drilling is what is done at the OTC by our Olympic Athletes in every single sport that we play. Olympic Gymnasts do not talk while they are training their routine for the 7000th time, they are HARD DRILLING. Hard Drilling can be an exhaustive strength and conditioning training scenario. Let me explain. If your game is to set up your take downs with punches let me give you a perfect training scenario.

Drill 1: Jab, Cross, Double Leg Take Down (lift the partner over your head each time) on a partner with mitts 100x

Drill 2: Cross, Hook, Single Leg Take Down (take the opponent down to a dominate position each time) on a partner with mitts 100x

Drill 3: Jab, Cross, Lead Uppercut, Cross, Body Lock Takedown ( lift the opponent off the ground each time then get to dominate position) on a partner w/ mitts 100x

Finish up with a round of Jump Rope, a round of Shadow Boxing and a round of Shadow Shots down the mat.

This work out is brutal and it will prepare you for your sport. Instead of spending the majority of your energy reserves doing exercises and moving objects that are not related to your sport spend your time “HARD DRILLING” and moving around bodies that are related to your sport. If you want to be the best in the world you are going to need to begin on your journey to spending 10,000 hours training in that sport. If in a week you train your sport 12 hours and do CrossFit 6 hours and I train in sport 18 hours here is what happens in a year. You have spent 624 hours building skills for your sport and 312 building skills for CrossFit. I have spent all 936 hours building my skills for the sport. Over the course of 10 years you have spent 6240 hours in sport and 3120 building CrossFit skills, I have spent 9360 specifically geared toward building skills for the sport. In 10 years I have eclipsed your sport specific training by over 3100 hours. When we get in the ring or on the mat do you want more time invested in the sport that your about to fight for your life in or less. You decide!

I hope you have enjoyed my blog today. On Sunday January 20th I will be doing a 2 hour Webinar entitled “NO B.S. Mental Warfare for Combat Athletes” please go to my website at www.timcredeur.com to register. I hope to help you more in the future.

Stay Solid, Tim Credeur

http://prommatraining.com/mma-conditioning-that-maximizes-fight-performance/
1/22/13 10:23 AM
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HULC
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I like it. Very simple and efficient. Not sure how many partners you're going to find that are willingly going to let you take them down 300 times in a row, but the reasoning is sound.
1/22/13 2:11 PM
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Wiggy
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I def like the reasoning.  However, I'd just have to throw a few things out there to keep it in perspective as a whole:

1 - Can you do "hard drilling' sufficiently "hard"?  In other words, are you in shape enough to drill hard?  If not, you might very well need to build up greater levels of GPP.

2 - Can you do "hard drilling" w/o getting injured?  This type of training can lead to injury.  Not saying you should be a pussy with your workouts - just use your head.

3 - While I like the reasoning, just don't take it too far.  While it's stupid for a fighter to spend too much time in the gym, don't swing the pendulum the other direction and say that gym time isn't required.  A number of martial artists (and people engaged in combat sports as a whole) have the idea that lifting weights is stupid or not necessessary.  Not true.

4 - I said this on the roadwork thread (and say it a lot in general), but it depends on how much skills work you're doing or need to do in the first place.  If fighting is your main thing, you're a pro, or whatever, then at a certain point, "hard drilling" should be a critical conditioning component.  (Which is why I always say that a fighter can't do skills work w/o getting a sort of 'built-in' conditioning workout.)

However, on the flip side, if someone is only a recreational fighter, does BJJ now and then, is a hobby MAist, or whatever, then this is someone who will be doing a lot less skills training as a whole.  If this is the case, then to be in similar condition, this person actually has to do more/harder gym workouts to make up for what's not being done in skills work.

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com

1/22/13 10:23 PM
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NeoSpartan
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If you have a hard time finding a training partner then you need a better team or need to start being more friendly. Your other option is to pay someone $20/month. As the saying goes, "I'm not gay but 20 bucks is 20 bucks". You'd be surprised what someone's willing to do for 20bucks. Plus you don't have to do this everyday. Alternate days MWF is me, Tu/Th/Sa is you.


1 - Can you do "hard drilling' sufficiently "hard"? In other words, are you in shape enough to drill hard? If not, you might very well need to build up greater levels of GPP.


I think the idea is doing this for someone who is a competitor not recreational. So if they need to build up greater levels of GPP then they're far from ready for the above recommendation. what he's describing requires a requisite amount of skill to derive any benefit from it.


2 - Can you do "hard drilling" w/o getting injured? This type of training can lead to injury. Not saying you should be a pussy with your workouts - just use your head.


Yes you can. Wrestlers do it all the time, so do football players. As a matter of fact some of the best conditioned fighters I've seen shadow drill on their own hard as fuck. Michael Chandler does hip heists like someone is trying to kill him. Have you seen how some guys spar or free roll?? That will lead to more injuries than controlled drilling where you at least KNOW what he's about to do. Shit you do with a partner (like the takedowns mentioned above) that is especially rough you can use a crash mat to alleviate some of the beating. What people tend to forget often is that there is a large benefit to learning to absorb punishment. Your body will harden physically and your mind psychologically. Kind of like "receiving" weight in the power clean.

A bit of an aside but Chuck Liddell and Enson were on Rogan's podcast last night and talked about this (albeit in brief comments). There's an "oh shit" moment when you get taken down if you can eliminate that "oh fuck" you have the one second you need to get out of your takedown. Even if you get taken down hard you usually bounce which is SPACE. And that's all you need. Chuck basically said the way he developed such stellar takedown defense was because he reached a point where he didn't even say "oh fuck" he was already focused on standing up. Enson talked about it later in submission attempts, most guys are so focused on what "may" happen and worrying about when they should tap that they aren't ACTUALLY trying to get out. Their focus is spread between two goals. Get used to having punches thrown at you, and getting takedown for REPS will accelerate your learning curve in defense as well as offense.

3 - While I like the reasoning, just don't take it too far. While it's stupid for a fighter to spend too much time in the gym, don't swing the pendulum the other direction and say that gym time isn't required. A number of martial artists (and people engaged in combat sports as a whole) have the idea that lifting weights is stupid or not necessessary. Not true.


I don't think that's what he's saying, but I agree with you. The problem is people can misconstrue what he said and go way off base and think they never need to do road work again. That said, Ive found tremendous benefit by shadowboxing/wrestling at an aggressive pace for <30min with a heart rate monitor on and just keeping it above an aerobic level. If I had a HR monitor that flashed or buzzed if I go below a certain level that would be the most ideal situation I can imagine. Running is simply a much easier way to maintain your HR at a constant level than shadowboxing unless you have the skill for it.

And doing sprawl + hip heists or something similar for intervals is much more applicable to fighting than barbell complexes. Coaches (not you of course) love to mention the whole specificity thing when it benefits them.

The great part is that you can do most of this on your own. Especially takedowns and takedown defense. You can begin to integrate into your shadowboxing almost immediately. If you've wrestled, most wrestlers have already shadow wrestled for hours. Just start doing the same thing simultaneously.

When you can

- Split the jab (pat down with rear hand, and lead jab)
- Lead hook, rear straight, lead hook
- rear knee
- clinch, elbow
- underhooks, suplex, cartwheel recover
- sprawl, resprawl, switch/sitout
- stand quickly, double jab, teep and move

...INSTINCTIVELY and Smoothly as you shadowFIGHT, you'll be a flowing motherfucker. It's just hard for most people to admit that they haven't put in the time to segue between techniques like that. You'll probably have to put together 2-3's (like his 3-4 punch to single/double) examples and just drill those types a bunch before you can really have them flow from you when you shadowbox.

You see a ton of wrestlers shadow-wrestle instinctively. You see a bunch of kickboxers/boxers shadowbox instinctively and throw combos against invisible opponents.

You rarely see anyone use full spectrum fight techniques as they shadow"fight" despite their being solo drills for nearly every situation, even submission stuff. So its REALLY rare to see someone do it at a pace fast enough to illicit any energy system gains from it.

The best fighters in the world kill people IN TRANSITION. GSP actually does what I described above a lot. The reason why I think you don't see it at lower levels is:

They don't have enough pure drilling to attain that level of skill retention. Developing it to a high level is fucking boring at first. It requires slowing down a LOT. Most guys end up turning drilling time into sloppy conditioning time. The point Tim made that most people will gloss over is #2... "Your technique must be flawless every time." You might have to spend the first 2 weeks working a drill 300x a day before you can use it properly. Think of it though, 1 tech/combo 200x over 5 days. 1000x in one week. I seriously doubt anyone's done 1000x armbars recently and 200 doesn't take THAT fucking long...10-15min?

Most of us need to stop dicking around and achieve MASTERY.
1/22/13 11:04 PM
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Ashilles
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Goof posts from Tim and wiggy Phone Post
1/22/13 11:19 PM
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Ashilles
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And neospartan. Great debate Phone Post
1/23/13 1:35 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I have to disagree with NeoSpartan about his idea on Wiggy's #2, in that dependent on the exercise being done, you can actually fuck yourself up worse than in not doing anything at all.

There are plenty of examples in sports, honestly. I'll give you examples from where I live, in Japan.

Now, Japanese athletes are (in)famous for their dedication to perfect execution of their techniques and practices. Yet, I have seen numerous talented athletes who get fucked up because of the idea of "hard, perfect drilling" taken too far.

The sport I know best is judo, but there are others. In judo, the throws (especially ones like uchi-mata or seio nage) are not only hard on the person taking the fall (after all, we're talking forced falls from 4 feet high on average, the forces are tremendous) but also hard on the person doing the throw (honestly, your body is not meant to contort itself and exert force repeatedly in these positions).

So, what happens when you do this forcefully and repeatedly in pursuit of perfection? Besides the minor shit (bloody fingers, chafed feet, etc), you get players with major injuries such as fucked up shoulders, knees, even heads and necks.

And the players do not recover their bodies or the injuries sufficiently. The injuries pile up, the bodies break down, and they exit the sport a lot earlier than they really should have.

There have been plenty of other examples. In the book "You gotta have WA," a book about Japanese pro baseball, the examples are more numerous to mention, but to name a few, a university that had the pitchers throwing so much, and so hard, that at the end of the day the players had to hang from a nearby tree in order to straighten out their arms (they couldn't do it any other way). Or the pro player who, even after the doctor told him to stop doing practice swings due to injury, continued to do over 1000 practice swings with a bat, and proceeded to fuck up his entire season.

So while "hard, perfect drilling" is helpful, there is such a thing as taking it too damned far.
1/23/13 2:03 AM
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NeoSpartan
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Japanese Pitchers
... Going back to point #3, a balanced program is important. Eric Cressey goes into how his pitchers balance their shoulder girdle but meanwhile they don't over do the pressing work as well despite the thought process that this might help your pitching. It's still technique heavy and he goes through pains to NOT interfere with that work.

Judo
... Valid observation. And perhaps I went a little too far away from the middle on that point. I think its important to absorb some damage, but I never said "ok get punched in the head more in training" or something like that. There is a middle ground in all of this. If you can't train the next day then WTF was the point. For instance if you're drilling armbars aggressively, cranking the arm is unnecessary. As a matter of fact you'll quickly learn to gauge where the threshold is and can use this to your advantage because you'll instinctively "know" when you got it.

Forgive me if it seemed like i was making the point that you need to be getting injured every practice. That wasn't my intent. My point was there's no reason hard drilling should injure you, but there's good reason it shouldn't be comfortable.

As you said it's dependent on the drill being done. So um, lets avoid the drills that might dislocate your shoulders and stuff :)
Like Coach (Erik) Paulson told me, "don't break your training partners otherwise you won't have any toys to play with."

1/23/13 2:05 AM
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NeoSpartan
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Ashilles -  And neospartan. Great debate Phone Post

Just a discussion :)

I usually try to STFU when the adults are talking lol
1/23/13 2:45 AM
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Leigh
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I do no non-sport cardio any more. I was finding I was getting injuries and lacked energy for MMA. Now my cardio sessions involve an hour of padding right up and sparring sensibly Phone Post
1/23/13 7:15 AM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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Tim is basically describing threshold work, its designed to raise your aerobic power so you can be able to keep a higher pace when you fight. Constantly doing only this type of training though only solves one part of the equation

what good is aerobic power if you have a tiny aerobic engine? It would be like being able to drive 100 MPH but only for 5 miles. Boxers and MT guys have done the optimal type of training for centuries, roadwork for improving the size of your aerobic engine, padwork/bagworks/sparring to improve your aerobic/anaerobic power

Conditioning is a balancing act. Sometimes you need to work hard, sometimes you need to slow down. Best way IMO would be to buy a heartrate monitor and an HRV app for your phone



1/23/13 8:36 AM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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"You rarely see anyone use full spectrum fight techniques as they shadow"fight" despite their being solo drills for nearly every situation, even submission stuff. So its REALLY rare to see someone do it at a pace fast enough to illicit any energy system gains from it. "

I actually feel the opposite. I regularly see people throw combos + kicks when they shadowfight. But rarely see anyone breaking things down to each individual technique. Its human nature to want to run before we can walk (because we have no patience)

If you watch Andersons boxing instructional, he doesnt just shadowbox, he breaks it down to working each individual skill, he starts with a few rounds of only footwork, then he adds footwork+slips, then he combines it all with punches

in sparring, he starts with cutting off the opponent and getting angles, only moving, no striking, then he works parries + slips, then he adds counterpunches to the parries + slips, then he does low intensity sparring, almost playing around before finally doing serious sparring

If you compare that to the average MMA guy, he will show up and shadowbox and throw all kinds of punches and move around, but its all without purpose, its to let out steam or get warmed up

1/23/13 9:07 AM
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HULC
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Goku, i think Neo agrees with what you're saying a bit later on in his post. The last paragraph he talks about doing thousands of reps with individual skills before you can begin to blend them together, which i think agrees with you.

I agree. I used to shadow box and try and fit everything in, and walk away from any session carrying pretty much the same flaws i started with. Once i learned to single out techniques/areas for improvement, and just spend a few rounds on that alone, my skill levels began to up noticeably.

For example i had a bad habit of dropping my hands. So for about a week every time i shadow boxed i just concentrated on keeping my hands up for the full round and moving around, only occasionally throwing punches. Now it's second nature to me and i almost never drop my hands.

Simple problems usually have simple answers.
1/23/13 9:28 AM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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Apologies for my poor reading comprehension, i kinda skipped through parts Neo!


"Once i learned to single out techniques/areas for improvement, and just spend a few rounds on that alone, my skill levels began to up noticeably."

Yeah i came into boxing from MT, and for a long time my game centered around toughness and attributes. I could throw combos and i knew how to slip and counter, but often times it just never clicked for me and i looked like crap

so i started over and decided to relearn everything from the beginning and isolated each individual part. A punch is nothing but a game of dice without the safe positioning and setup needed to make it land

Everyone drills armbars, but how many drill and understand the setups to get there. Ryan Hall has a similar way of teaching BJJ
1/23/13 10:11 AM
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KingGo
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Lotta good info here, sub Phone Post
1/23/13 11:31 AM
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paw
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for laters

1/23/13 1:46 PM
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Seul
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This is an amazing thread, great discussion (this will be extremely helpful). Phone Post
1/24/13 1:04 AM
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nowaydo
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1)The most important addition to a workout like that is, first discovering your posture imbalances via screening.

2)Then, acknowledging the repetitive motions you'll most likely be doing, and understanding which muscles are being strengthening and which ones are being stretched and which ones might not be activation or turned off.

3)The develop a workout plan to strengthen weaknesses via stretching and strengthening.

Without the above: you are a walking injury waiting to be seated at the emergency room.
1/24/13 2:17 AM
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NeoSpartan
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^Solid goddamn point. Excellent.
1/24/13 1:25 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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ttt
1/24/13 2:54 PM
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Taku
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Good points from wiggy. I like the idea of a basic S&C plan coupled with intelligent positional sparring etc. what my Friend Tony Blauer might call B.M.F. (Balistic Micro Fights). It is sort of sparring isolation drills. You break down your game and work specific holes etc, Or if you are working against a known opponent, you can create strategies to work against their game.

Either way, my experience working with high level combat athletes is that this is a safer way to go as well as allowing for less "wear and tear".

TAKU

1/25/13 2:47 AM
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falkofire
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Sub for more reading later - Phone Post
1/25/13 10:30 AM
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Machine250
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in

1/25/13 12:30 PM
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Taku
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The model I use is similar to this one...but administered more along the lines of what Wiggy said.

TAKU

P.S. If anyone would like a copy of my Training model, I would be happy to send it to them Via e-mail

Hit me up @ strengthonline@yahoo.com (type Training Model in the subject line).

 

1/25/13 4:31 PM
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nowaydo
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ttt

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