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GeekGround >> Who wins? Hulk Vs Juggernaut


2/1/13 2:24 PM
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scourge
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I remeber that, that was Doc Ock with adamantium tentacles. Somehow they also made him much stronger I guess
2/1/13 3:30 PM
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CharlesLewis
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Leigh - Some good points but here are counter ones - if you want to appeal to authority with the Marvel Handbook, remember than Stan Lee said Hulk wins. And don't forget Orcus' point about Juggs own creator having his forcefield easily overloaded (I haven't seen it, so don't know the details).

At full power, Thor has beat him down. Thor was actually handicapped, cos he had the Donald Blake curse. Probably a different discussion, as this about Hulk, who's powerset is much similar to Juggs

Of course Hulk WINS... he's the hero. My argument is with those who cherry pick the appearances where Juggernaut is supposedly vulnerable to very small amounts of force as somehow proving that he doesn't have the powers we KNOW he has. As if all the times he shrugged off Mjolnir shots like gentle love taps never happened.

2/1/13 4:03 PM
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uratoker2
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Joe Hurley, not true (Hulk #396). Ock new it was the Hulk after hear his voice. Then he gives Ock the finger, if you remember..... :-)


Blue please.....

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hulk+vs+doctor+octopus&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS461&biw=1280&bih=836&tbm=isch&tbnid=JorIk38gn-sP0M:&imgrefurl=http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/29-2267/all-images/108-200123/picture_1/105-1696761/&docid=xwbE8bnXe9rA-M&imgurl=http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/39876/1696761-picture_1.png&w=564&h=464&ei=fiwMUeSgOOTH0QG7pICAAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=406&sig=112182702025412254600&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=162&start=0&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:84&tx=108&ty=64


http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hulk+vs+doctor+octopus&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS461&biw=1280&bih=836&tbm=isch&tbnid=akwFjfFo021MxM:&imgrefurl=http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/mtharman/9-doctor-octopus-fights-that-are-not-with-spider-man/87-78539/&docid=g2p8QfGMb2NgxM&imgurl=http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36268/2227321-1696762_picture_2.png&w=562&h=424&ei=fiwMUeSgOOTH0QG7pICAAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=139&vpy=124&dur=1562&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=128&ty=120&sig=112182702025412254600&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=174&start=0&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:87
2/1/13 4:23 PM
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orcus
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If Juggernaut is as fragile as orcus and others claim, why did Skarr have to use other means to beat him,
 
There are degrees between "fragile" and "literally invulnerable".
 
tricking him into a sucker punch and then eventually using the bullshit ring out tactics Hulk ALWAYS has to use?
 
This isn't a ring out tactic:
 
 photo gut.jpg
 photo knees.jpg
 
 
 
 
 factor in what EVERY version of the Marvel handbook has explicitly stated, it becomes obvious that the consensus version of Juggernaut at full strength is supposed to be truly invulnerable,
 
False. This is the extent of what every version of OHOTMU said regarding his toughness: " the mystical energy of Cyttorak gives the Juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever."
 
Nothing there suggests he is truly invulnerable. 
 
Of course Hulk WINS... he's the hero.
 
It works both ways. Hulk loses to or struggles with characters he should easily one-shot because, as the protagonist, he needs to be in danger to create the story. This is a guy who survives nuclear explosions and moves tectonic plates, there "should" be almost no one who can even put up a fight, much less hurt him.
2/1/13 4:40 PM
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Leigh
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CharlesLewis -
Leigh - Some good points but here are counter ones - if you want to appeal to authority with the Marvel Handbook, remember than Stan Lee said Hulk wins. And don't forget Orcus' point about Juggs own creator having his forcefield easily overloaded (I haven't seen it, so don't know the details).

At full power, Thor has beat him down. Thor was actually handicapped, cos he had the Donald Blake curse. Probably a different discussion, as this about Hulk, who's powerset is much similar to Juggs

Of course Hulk WINS... he's the hero. My argument is with those who cherry pick the appearances where Juggernaut is supposedly vulnerable to very small amounts of force as somehow proving that he doesn't have the powers we KNOW he has. As if all the times he shrugged off Mjolnir shots like gentle love taps never happened.

Stan Lee said it was cost Hulk gets stronger

Juggernaut only shrugged off mjolnir in 2 fights. The first one, Thor was sick. In the second, Thor realised the force field was magic and cancelled it. Then beat Juggs down with ease using his fists Phone Post
2/1/13 4:50 PM
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CharlesLewis
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Not true, the issue drawn by JrJr he was banging on Juggs left and right and doing fuck all.

2/1/13 4:51 PM
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uratoker2
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^i remember that issue, Leigh. Was bada$$. Phone Post
2/1/13 5:27 PM
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The_Pundits_Fluffer_III
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Speaking of canon. Do you guys remember this? Stan Lee said it was the most canon marvel comic of ALL TIME and no other marvel comics could ever cancel it out.

 

2/1/13 5:28 PM
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Leigh
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CharlesLewis -


Not true, the issue drawn by JrJr he was banging on Juggs left and right and doing fuck all.



Scan pls? Don't think I've seen it Phone Post
2/1/13 7:55 PM
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MarkRobinson
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The_Pundits_Fluffer_III - 

Speaking of canon. Do you guys remember this? Stan Lee said it was the most canon marvel comic of ALL TIME and no other marvel comics could ever cancel it out.

 


Is this Colossus kissing geriatric Jean Grey?

 

lol

 

 

nice! 

2/1/13 8:29 PM
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CharlesLewis
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2/1/13 8:30 PM
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CharlesLewis
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2/1/13 8:33 PM
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CharlesLewis
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I have the issue somewhere, when I'm at my PC I will find it. Thor and Juggs have fought more than just the two times the GG loves to mention. In this appearance, Thor wails on Juggs for pages and pages and can barely produce any reaction. Considering this, I submit that whatever old scan orcus finds of a propeller "hurting" Juggy may in fact be anamolous...

2/1/13 8:46 PM
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CharlesLewis
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Re: OHOTMU, I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the more extensive entry went on to describe his unstoppability as such that "even focused plasma beams could slow but not halt his forward movement" which pretty strongly implies that he's invulnerable to them, unless he's walking forward into his death.

2/1/13 8:55 PM
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Stronghold
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You beat Juggy by turning off his power source fia magic. You beat Hulk by convincing him you don't want to fight.
2/1/13 9:11 PM
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CharlesLewis
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Stronghold - You beat Juggy by turning off his power source fia magic. You beat Hulk by convincing him you don't want to fight.

Much truth in this: in one of the oft-mentioned Thor battles, he used Mjolnir to cut off Juggs from his power source. While he doesn't instantly get depowered, and retains MOST of his strength he is unable to draw on it's limitless power... but no one mentions that when telling the story of Thor winning...

2/1/13 9:18 PM
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CharlesLewis
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btw, here's the infamous "propeller" issue. A giant piece of metal knocks Juggs over, and ICEMAN comments that he looks "groggy".

 

That's it. That's the big example of how Cain's not invulnerable. It's been shown NUMEROUS times that he can be staggered and knocked off his feet if he's surprised and not in a charge.

2/1/13 9:45 PM
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MarkRobinson
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I've seen this scan where juggernaut is all bones and helmet. I think dyspare completely melted off his flesh somehow.

Can I get a juggernaut experts thoughts on that. Is it canon? It's crazy because even if he can be damaged, he didn't go down and he was only bones. Phone Post
2/1/13 9:47 PM
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CharlesLewis
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Wasn't that on the astral plane, Mark? I think anything goes in that kind of battle...

2/1/13 10:03 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Leigh - 
JackFunk -
CharlesLewis - 


Classic Juggs wins all day, every day. That said, Marvel's writers LIVE to find ways to depower him so he would likely lose in any modern comic.


I agree, classic Juggs with force field should not be beaten with physical force.


There has to be a limit. He can't just be infinitely invulnerable, that doesn't make sense Phone Post

There is a limit...but it's far beyond what someone like Hulk or Thor could ever produce...Too Apocalypse giving Hulk Celestial powerup to do it.



And don't give me this Hulk can get stronger for ever and ever if he's mad enough.


No. There's DEFINITELY a limit there. Hulk can only get so mad....and he can get as mad as he wants for a week straight....he will NEVER beat Galactus or a Celestial arm wrestling. Isn't going to max out Cytorrak either.
2/1/13 10:08 PM
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MarkRobinson
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CharlesLewis -

Wasn't that on the astral plane, Mark? I think anything goes in that kind of battle...

I'm not sure. I've only seen the scan. That would make sense though. Phone Post
2/1/13 10:17 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Leigh - How would Juggernaut do it? He doesn't have explosive power, we don't even know how strong he is. What are his greatest strength feats? KOing people is not a strength feat, nor does it make sense when you do not move very fast.

As I stated, neither should be able to hurt the other with punches. You can make the argument that comic physics isn't in play here and we have to suspend logic but in that case, they have both hurt each other with punches in the comics. In that case, who ever gets the first shot off will probably win

Hulk has stopped Juggs with one shot before, I don't think the reverse is true. Juggernaut is more likely to throw first in a random encounter cos that's what he does - punch first and ask questions later

LOL @ Juggernaut not having explosive power...Knocked Captain Britain MILES away w/ ONE punch...KO'd Hulk w/ short rabbit punches from within a headlock (that Hulk could NOT break out of BTW)...defeated and drove Thing completely into the ground w/ one strike (something Hulk has never done)...etc.

Hulk has never outmuscled or overpowered Juggernaut w/ his strength....Juggernaut he is far beyond class 100 strength and even full out mega uber powerfulbadder than ever World War Hulk couldn't outmuscle Juggernaut, and that's not even talking about Juggernaut's foward unstoppable ability when in motion...i'm talking trading strikes, locking up, grappling w/ him.

World War Hulk OWNE the entire Marvel Universe roster...but was just regular ol' punching bag for Juggernaut...as if he was never powered up AT ALL.

Dude OWNS the entire MU...Then Mr. "HULK SMASH !!! ME STRONGEST EVA !!!"gets stopped in his tracks, pushed back, beaten bloody....and suddenly FORCE to use VERY UN-Hulkly chaeap Akido tactics for battle field removal (weakest strategy of all for invulnerable class 100 sluggers)only to then flee the scene after 4 issues of being a bully and refusing to leave.

lol

Hulk can get as powered up and suped up as he wants.Doesn't mean a damn thing... Juggernaut will always treat him like a battered woman and force Hulk to COMPLETELY change his tactics, resort to battlefield removal, flee the scene, or call in a gaggle of outside characters w/ special powers to HELP him do what he cannot do alone.

Again...that's the point of the Juggernaut. To make characters look for ways to defeat what they cannot defeat physically...Even Hulk gets out Hulked and is forced to do the same.
2/1/13 10:21 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Leigh - How would Juggernaut do it? He doesn't have explosive power, we don't even know how strong he is. What are his greatest strength feats? KOing people is not a strength feat, nor does it make sense when you do not move very fast.

As I stated, neither should be able to hurt the other with punches. You can make the argument that comic physics isn't in play here and we have to suspend logic but in that case, they have both hurt each other with punches in the comics. In that case, who ever gets the first shot off will probably win

Hulk has stopped Juggs with one shot before, I don't think the reverse is true. Juggernaut is more likely to throw first in a random encounter cos that's what he does - punch first and ask questions later

lol


What do you mean they shouldn't be able to hurt each other w/ punches ? What part of Hulk getting beaten BLOODY and KTFO did you miss ?


Without the forcefield Hulk and Juggernaut are basically equal, down to strength levels and suped up healing factors...however when Juggernaut chooses to mentally activate his forcefield he enjoys a level of unvulnerability that Hulk's punches and Thor's hammer cannot penetrate. Accept it.
2/1/13 10:23 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Leigh - Some good points but here are counter ones - if you want to appeal to authority with the Marvel Handbook, remember than Stan Lee said Hulk wins. And don't forget Orcus' point about Juggs own creator having his forcefield easily overloaded (I haven't seen it, so don't know the details).

At full power, Thor has beat him down. Thor was actually handicapped, cos he had the Donald Blake curse. Probably a different discussion, as this about Hulk, who's powerset is much similar to Juggs

There's at least 2 examples of Hulk's own editorial/creative team stating that Juggernaut would win...in Hulk's own book in Hulk's own letters column.
2/1/13 10:26 PM
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SKARHEAD
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JoeHurley - 

Hulk was thought to be dead and in disguise which is why he was able to get obver on Doc Ock.  Would be like some old lady starting a fight with you at the store and dropping you with a punch. Later you find out it was Anderson Silva in drag.


lol

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