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GeekGround >> Who wins? Hulk Vs Juggernaut


2/8/13 8:14 PM
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CharlesLewis
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I'd love to read an issue where Hulk gets uber pissed at Cain and goes full out to kill him... any kind of extended fight between these two that doesn't end on some bullshit... but Marvel keeps fucking us on this.

2/8/13 11:02 PM
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Calebcb
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Zenoplata - 

I think next time bitch-ass Colossus shouldn't be powered up by Cyttorak.

If he REALLY wanted an Avatar of destruction how the fuck did he NOT pick the Hulk like 40 years ago?


Because he dresses like a gay hipster. Purple skinny jeans.
2/9/13 12:55 AM
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orcus
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"The page you keep posting out of context doesn't show Hulk sliding backwards,"

Page where they first lock up shows them running toward each other, then locking up, Cain with obvious exertion in his voice, and a couple inches of crushed dirt in front of Hulk's feet where he is either pushed back slightly or digs his feet in.

Next page shows Juggernaut struggling to move him and failing. 

"how is that any different from plasma cannons, tons of rock, etc, slowing him down but expressly NOT stopping his forward progress?"

Because slowing the speed of movement isn't the same as bringing it to a stop.

"if so he and the artist did a piss poor job of conveying that."

I don't know how it could be more clear. It's as clear as Juggernaut's head getting spun around while he grimaces in pain and grunts in pain when punched. 

Juggernaut being unable to push Hulk back beyond at most a couple inches at the initial lockup is right there on the page, and as if that's not enough, the writer says that's exactly what happened...how is this still being discussed?

" If the writer admits that Hulk couldn't stop him,"

Huh? The writer said he DID stop him. He said eventually the floor would cave in. So in other words they wouldn't just stand there all day, the ground would give out.

"I mean, I think Hulk's motivation wasn't to beat up Juggernaut, he just wanted Xavier."

Obviously. The entire WWH vs X-Men series is all "get out of my way, I just want Xavier". 

"I'd love to read an issue where Hulk gets uber pissed at Cain and goes full out to kill him..."

He did get pissed at him, and Cain ended up on his knees for three pages from one punch to the gut. He got pissed in their first fight, too, and twirled him and threw him into a mountain, KOing him according to the writer. He was pissed in this fight, and stopped his magical unstoppability, and hurt him with a punch.

2/9/13 1:55 AM
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CharlesLewis
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Once again orcus, you make a few arguable points and bury them in a pile of hyperbole and outright bullshit.

 

I think the scans tell the story.

2/9/13 11:57 AM
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orcus
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I am admittedly a fan of hyperbole, but I am honestly bafflled as to what in my last post could qualify. And of course nothing I just said is "bullshit" unless you're living in denial.

The scans do tell the story, they show Juggernaut trying to push Hulk and failing. And the direct quote from the guy who wrote the story also tells the story.

2/9/13 12:34 PM
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None So Blind
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If Hulk *truly* is limitless, I would suspect that if he and Juggs went at it long enough, and assuming they didn't destroy the planet under them :-P I would think it would come down to what would give out first - Hulk's strength or Cytorrak's power.

I don't think Cytorrak's power has ever been described as limitless, so you do the math.

I can just see it - Hulk and Juggs are throwing down like never before, and off in magic-land Cytorrak is sitting on his ruby toilet, reading a mystical scroll or some such, and right in the middle of pinching off a big magical turd, Hulk lands the best punch he's ever landed, and Cytorrak collapses off his toilet, out cold. Juggernaut shrinks down to human size, and is squashed into tomato paste soon after...
2/9/13 12:48 PM
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Zenoplata
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Calebcb - 
Zenoplata - 

I think next time bitch-ass Colossus shouldn't be powered up by Cyttorak.

If he REALLY wanted an Avatar of destruction how the fuck did he NOT pick the Hulk like 40 years ago?


Because he dresses like a gay hipster. Purple skinny jeans.

Colossus has one of the lamest outfits ever. When he turns into human form he looks like a male dominatrix.

2/9/13 12:54 PM
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Leigh
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None So Blind - If Hulk *truly* is limitless, I would suspect that if he and Juggs went at it long enough, and assuming they didn't destroy the planet under them :-P I would think it would come down to what would give out first - Hulk's strength or Cytorrak's power.

I don't think Cytorrak's power has ever been described as limitless, so you do the math.

I can just see it - Hulk and Juggs are throwing down like never before, and off in magic-land Cytorrak is sitting on his ruby toilet, reading a mystical scroll or some such, and right in the middle of pinching off a big magical turd, Hulk lands the best punch he's ever landed, and Cytorrak collapses off his toilet, out cold. Juggernaut shrinks down to human size, and is squashed into tomato paste soon after...
Hulk's strength/durability is not limitless. Its bottomed out plenty of times. Phone Post
2/9/13 2:55 PM
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Stronghold
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It takes heart to win. Cane is lacking.
2/9/13 3:37 PM
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Gendai Budo
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Unstoppable Force meets Immovable Object in my opinion Phone Post
2/9/13 3:51 PM
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None So Blind
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Leigh - that varies by writer, though - more than a few have said there is no theoretical limit on Hulk's strength. If that's true, then it depends on how strong Cytorrak is - if he's some garden variety Dr. Strange enemy shithead, he ain't all that; if he's Odin level, that's a different story... Phone Post
2/9/13 4:50 PM
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Leigh
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None So Blind - Leigh - that varies by writer, though - more than a few have said there is no theoretical limit on Hulk's strength. If that's true, then it depends on how strong Cytorrak is - if he's some garden variety Dr. Strange enemy shithead, he ain't all that; if he's Odin level, that's a different story... Phone Post
Yeah lots have said it but can't possibly know because his gamma radiation power source is unknown. But he has been beaten up before, had his bones broken by void, ko'd by juggs, neck broken by himself (Maestro), trapped under a mountain etc. And lets not forget the absolute thrashing he got from Zeus, who was only using his physical abilities. He even accepted he had been beaten down in that one. Phone Post
2/9/13 4:53 PM
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N9K
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Gendai Budo -  Unstoppable Force meets Immovable Object in my opinion Phone Post

They surrender?
2/9/13 11:06 PM
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Calebcb
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Calebcb - 
Zenoplata - 

I think next time bitch-ass Colossus shouldn't be powered up by Cyttorak.

If he REALLY wanted an Avatar of destruction how the fuck did he NOT pick the Hulk like 40 years ago?


Because he dresses like a gay hipster. Purple skinny jeans.

Colossus has one of the lamest outfits ever. When he turns into human form he looks like a male dominatrix.


True. It looks like an alternate color scheme for Titania.
2/9/13 11:12 PM
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Calebcb
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Edited: 02/09/13 11:13 PM
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Stronghold - It takes heart to win. Cane is lacking.

Now that's some bullshit.

2/18/13 10:15 PM
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Kneeblock
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I will never understand the love Juggs gets on this forum. Is everyone secretly Skarhead?

I mean, Cain is probably one of the worst characters of all time with one of the dumbest powersets. Sure they try to make him all "tortured," and vacillating between self-limitation and uber-powerful, but to me he'll always be the guy who jumped out of a plane after Black Tom because he couldn't bear to be without his boo.

2/18/13 10:29 PM
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CharlesLewis
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What love? 90% of the people here shit on Juggs like he fucked their highschool girlfriend...

2/18/13 10:32 PM
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Zenoplata
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Leigh - 
None So Blind - Leigh - that varies by writer, though - more than a few have said there is no theoretical limit on Hulk's strength. If that's true, then it depends on how strong Cytorrak is - if he's some garden variety Dr. Strange enemy shithead, he ain't all that; if he's Odin level, that's a different story... Phone Post
Yeah lots have said it but can't possibly know because his gamma radiation power source is unknown. But he has been beaten up before, had his bones broken by void, ko'd by juggs, neck broken by himself (Maestro), trapped under a mountain etc. And lets not forget the absolute thrashing he got from Zeus, who was only using his physical abilities. He even accepted he had been beaten down in that one. Phone Post

Apparently Zeus can shift into a bull, rape some chick, and then people forgive him for it.

He's Hulk's worst enemy, no one is able to stay mad at him. I think that example is therefore moot.

2/18/13 11:39 PM
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SKARHEAD
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CharlesLewis - 

Once again orcus, you make a few arguable points and bury them in a pile of hyperbole and outright bullshit.

 

I think the scans tell the story.


2/18/13 11:52 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 02/18/13 11:53 PM
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Skarhead, maybe you can answer the questions I asked a few pages back.

You are a huge fan of the character with very strong ideas about his powers and abilities.

Juggernaut has dozens and dozens of appearances in the almost 50 years since his first appearance in 1965.

1) Which comics should we look at to see where you formed your idea of "classic Juggernaut" as he "should" be written?

2) What is the most recent comic you can think of where Juggernaut displayed a forcefield, or he and or any other character or caption mentioned one?

2/19/13 9:45 AM
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disbeliever
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"Once again orcus, you make a few arguable points and bury them in a pile of hyperbole and outright bullshit."

This has always been my "issue" with him. He tries to muddy the waters in a discussion so badly that you just give up and he "wins".
2/19/13 9:46 AM
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disbeliever
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I think given the writers said Hulk stopped him, that he stopped him. I don't see how it's even a discussion at that point
2/19/13 9:51 AM
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Leigh
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disbeliever - "Once again orcus, you make a few arguable points and bury them in a pile of hyperbole and outright bullshit."

This has always been my "issue" with him. He tries to muddy the waters in a discussion so badly that you just give up and he "wins".

No more than the Juggernaut fanboys
2/19/13 11:57 AM
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orcus
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I'd like to know what in my post was hyperbole or outright bullshit. When I accuse someone of that, I point out exactly which statemenets I'm referring to.

To save you time, here's the post CharlesLewis was referring to:

 

"The page you keep posting out of context doesn't show Hulk sliding backwards,"

Page where they first lock up shows them running toward each other, then locking up, Cain with obvious exertion in his voice, and a couple inches of crushed dirt in front of Hulk's feet where he is either pushed back slightly or digs his feet in.

Next page shows Juggernaut struggling to move him and failing. 

"how is that any different from plasma cannons, tons of rock, etc, slowing him down but expressly NOT stopping his forward progress?"

Because slowing the speed of movement isn't the same as bringing it to a stop.

"if so he and the artist did a piss poor job of conveying that."

I don't know how it could be more clear. It's as clear as Juggernaut's head getting spun around while he grimaces in pain and grunts in pain when punched. 

Juggernaut being unable to push Hulk back beyond at most a couple inches at the initial lockup is right there on the page, and as if that's not enough, the writer says that's exactly what happened...how is this still being discussed?

" If the writer admits that Hulk couldn't stop him,"

Huh? The writer said he DID stop him. He said eventually the floor would cave in. So in other words they wouldn't just stand there all day, the ground would give out.

"I mean, I think Hulk's motivation wasn't to beat up Juggernaut, he just wanted Xavier."

Obviously. The entire WWH vs X-Men series is all "get out of my way, I just want Xavier". 

"I'd love to read an issue where Hulk gets uber pissed at Cain and goes full out to kill him..."

He did get pissed at him, and Cain ended up on his knees for three pages from one punch to the gut. He got pissed in their first fight, too, and twirled him and threw him into a mountain, KOing him according to the writer. He was pissed in this fight, and stopped his magical unstoppability, and hurt him with a punch.

 

So where's the hyperbole and outright bullshit?

Meanwhile, the Juggernaut fanboys use Eighth Day Juggernaut as proof of how powerful he is, even though that was a one-time powerup that Juggernaut is not capable of triggering himself (unlike Hulk's strength powerups); or they post a tiny handful of examples of the forcefield in use even though numerous other things in those exact same issues would be entirely dismissed by them as "bad writing" and not how Juggernaut "should" be (failing to hurt Spiderman with punches, being a mutant, getting beaten down by barehanded Thor in 60 seconds once the forcefield is deactivated, having the forcefield blown out by impact with a turbine, etc).

2/19/13 11:59 AM
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orcus
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As for muddying the waters, I've made a few attempts now to cut right to the chase, but with no takers:

 

The Juggernaut fanboys have very strong ideas about his powers and abilities.

Juggernaut has dozens and dozens of appearances in the almost 50 years since his first appearance in 1965.

1) Which comics should we look at to see where you formed your idea of "classic Juggernaut" as he "should" be written?

2) What is the most recent comic you can think of where Juggernaut displayed a forcefield, or he or any other character or caption referred to its existence?


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