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UnderGround Forums >> An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin


1/22/13 7:10 PM
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Topsyjt
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UGCTT_Fillthy -

Read the whole thing.  Must've missed the part where he apologized to the girl he intended to rape.

The real issue most folks have taken with his behavior were his attempts to bury his past using SEO techniques, and trying to use those SEO techniques to generate publicity for his curriculum.  

"Oops, bad timing." Seriously?  That's kind of pathetic.

 

Exactly. Not once was their an apology to her. Only an apology for his "timing" of releasing his Rape Prevention Seminar.
Even a you tube link.

Sometimes their are no words to display disguist at someone. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:18 PM
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Neil Funk
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D241:


With all due respect, I would never defend a convicted rapist. However, I have seen wrongful accusals and I have also known women who have fucked and sucked a roomful of guys. It's a murky area to be certain. I have seen the way the UG mob works, and I have seen Lloyd Irvin get ridiculed and criticized on this forum before, something about the way this is being handled strikes me as being disingenuous. The guy had something horrible happen within his team and has had dirt from way, way back heaped upon him, all while trying to support this girl who was raped and brutally shamed, potentially making HER situation even more painful. Not to mention that the two monsters who did this to her are seemingly forgotten. Just seems suspect to me. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:18 PM
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Chicago Bum
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I am not a fan of Lloyd's marketing tactics, and have been unimpressed with his products. His sales pitch is great, but the quality of his products that I have sampled has been poor. That being said, it seems as though lots of people are running to judge him when we are lacking lots of information.

From the few articles I have read, the 1989 rape does not seem cut and dried. It seems strange to me that 10 dudes forced oral sex onto a woman. I'm not an expert, but forcing a woman into oral sex is not easy. Just to open her mouth takes a huge effort, and of course no man wants to risk getting his dick bitten off. No noise was involved. And no mention to the extent of ladies injuries other than a bruise. It seems like our information is very limited, and I would need to learn more before judging him. It does say something that the victim of the 2012 rape remains training with him.

Just my two cents Phone Post
1/22/13 7:19 PM
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sodigthisbigcrux
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JLau'sWarmnessSpewingAllOverMyFace - I doubt he wrote that. Sounds like he forked out some cash for a speech writer.

then he needs to get a refund...it was a horribly written letter

1/22/13 7:20 PM
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Neil Funk
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Exactly Chicago Bum. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:21 PM
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BJ bashed into McDs mincemeat
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I'm happy he's made a statement, clears everything up. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:23 PM
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12
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Neil Funk -  Why does Lloyd Irvin owe any of you anything?


What happened in 1989 ended with him being innocent of any crime. Phone Post

just like O.J

1/22/13 7:26 PM
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Neil Funk
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You know what I have also seen here? I've seen a bunch of people rally behind Jeremy Stephens who stands accused of brutally beating and permanently injuring someone. If he can be innocent before proven guilty, why can't Lloyd be innocent 24 years after being proven innocent? Because he has shitty business practices?


So what about this young victim, what happens when someone says to her "you know, the teacher who is supporting you right now is a rapist too", even though he was found innocent? Phone Post
1/22/13 7:29 PM
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nogidavid
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totally glossed over the fact he ADMITTED to wanting to take part in a rape and only his so called penis problems saved him, despite both the girl and one of the other rapists testifying that he did indeed rape her. everyone who questions him or his team is re-affirmed as a hater. fuck you lloyd you fucking cunt piece of shit rapist motherfucker

1/22/13 7:30 PM
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Neil Funk
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"but we LIKE Jeremy Stephens, that's why! Also, he posts here and so do his friends!"


Jeremy could very well be innocent, I'm just sayin. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:30 PM
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Authority Figure
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I was impressed with the letter. It left something unanswered, like the whole "impotent" thing, but in truth who the fuck am I to expect him to offer details on that? 

At this point my biggest questions are:

  1. How many schools and gyms don't consider ethics and morality when choosing who they work with? I'd assume well over 90%
  2. Is this still about the rape? Or is this about getting joy from someone's sorrow? Or is this about the longstanding jealousy that follows Lloyd? If it's about women's rights to be free of violence, I'm in like a motherfucker. But, there's no honor in beating a man down over and over, even if the man himself is dishonorable
  3. Why are we spending more time on Lloyd than the actual rapists? 
  4. On a technical note, how effective is BJJ as a defense system for women? I know she was drunk. But in a sober scenario does she fare better? I wonder about this because there are a lot of women in the sport initially for defense.
1/22/13 7:31 PM
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kid chaos
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1/22/13 7:32 PM
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Drugs_Delaney
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HandyDarsh - 
UGCTT_Fillthy - 
HandyDarsh - 
Neil Funk -  HandyDarsh, youre right. The two faggots who raped their teammate are just about forgotten in this story.


There are people piling on here who don't like Lloyd to begin with, and their torches blaze brighter than the rest. It's a dangerous game to play. Phone Post

Agreed Mr.Funk, thats what disgusts me, but yet they go after llyod because he has more to his name.

i'm done with this thread, i dont feed off negativity and trying to bring people down.

most of these people are trying to demolish this guys image just because of his success, freaking out for the wrong reason. Maybe chopping him down makes them feel better about their own shortcomings or mistakes.

 

 

lol @ claiming the good-vibe high ground.

 

I guess that's a lot easier than actually responding to the critics of your staments or defending "Master" Irvin's indefensible actions.

Obviously everyone who finds "Master" Irvin's behavior to be reprehensible are just jealous of his monetary value.

 

EDIT - glad I could capture your statement before you deleted it.  Also glad to take some VTFDs for speaking the truth.  

"It's good to know who hates you.  And it's good to be hated by the right people."  

- Johnny Cash


i immediatly regretted taking part in this thread knowing nothing good could come from espressing an opinion about this topic.

dont worry, because i didnt bash lloyd i got vote downs too! 

have a nice day


just to play devils advocate

if you wanted no part in it, then why even qft what neil posted. why not delete everything to just a period and go about your way. instead you edit out your comment and use the words of someone else to get your opinion across while claiming you want no part in this.
1/22/13 7:32 PM
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Neil Funk
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Authority Figure, great post. The last sentence of which could be its own thread. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:34 PM
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Hong Kong Phooey
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inf0 - 

what no plug for his rape prevention seminar?

 


Phrat

1/22/13 7:38 PM
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wiggum
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Zen - 
Neil Funk - People make mistakes. A lot of the pitchfork wielders here have skeletons of their own in their closets, yet are leading the crucifixion march.


What exactly was Lloyd supposed to say? I thought the letter was thoughtful and direct. Seems like this has taken a huge toll on him.


if you guys still aren't convinced, roll up in his gym and tell him how you feel. Not a single one of you would dare though. Phone Post
My skeletons don't include watching and allowing friends to gang rape a 17 year old girl. Life is about moments, and in one of his life's biggest moments he failed in every single possible fucking way. Phone Post

Yup.
1/22/13 7:39 PM
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wiggum
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BlackBelt2012 - 
Chicago Bum -  I am not a fan of Lloyd's marketing tactics, and have been unimpressed with his products. His sales pitch is great, but the quality of his products that I have sampled has been poor. That being said, it seems as though lots of people are running to judge him when we are lacking lots of information.

From the few articles I have read, the 1989 rape does not seem cut and dried. It seems strange to me that 10 dudes forced oral sex onto a woman. I'm not an expert, but forcing a woman into oral sex is not easy. Just to open her mouth takes a huge effort, and of course no man wants to risk getting his dick bitten off. No noise was involved. And no mention to the extent of ladies injuries other than a bruise. It seems like our information is very limited, and I would need to learn more before judging him. It does say something that the victim of the 2012 rape remains training with him.

Just my two cents Phone Post

The claim was made that she was threatened that they would throw her off the balcony. She went to the police/medical examiner right after she left I believe and the medical examiner testified that she had been raped based on her examination.

Great response to a ridiculous fucking post.
1/22/13 7:45 PM
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GB Dave Jr
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this letter read like his marketing emails. lots of words, yet not much was really disclosed.
1/22/13 7:47 PM
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thembones
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PJ Benn Fan - 

One other fact I find disturbing is that it seems like people want to know each and every detail of a incident from 23 years ago!

I mean lets say besides drinking that night, he snorted a nice big line of coke.

Knowing the way the world is now, lets also assume that hes probably telling the truth regarding people harrassing his immediate family.

Why the fuck should he give any more ammo to the animals out there who have nothing better to do than to harrass elderly people about something their son did a quarter of a century ago?

Should he provide every detail so the people who obviously have no sense can throw it in his sons face that his dad is also a cooke head?

I mean really when is enough enough?

His explanation is good enough for his mother, father, kids, wife, and the justice system but the martial arts world demands more!

The same martial arts world thats harrasses his family.

Interesting.

 

 


"Should he provide every detail so the people who obviously have no sense can throw it in his sons face that his dad is also a cooke head?"

Well, he DOES spend a thousand words "apologizing" for not having foreseen the rape of his student by 2 other students.

He's not afraid to go into detail about how horrible he feels that he couldn't have done more - even though Momma Irvin tells him he couldn't have done anything, poor Lloyd is still broken up about it.

But when it comes to a gang rape where he is accused of participating, likely had intent, and at the very least was present for, he can't even muster up a simple apology? Can't admit he fucked up big time? I mean, he has the incredible courage to step up and take responsibility as a man for something that he had no way of preventing, he can't apologize for a crime where he was actually present and COULD have done something?

"I mean really when is enough enough?"

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say the newspapers got it wrong and he didn't even try to participate. He just happened to be there, but he was 20, had no martial arts training, and there were 9 other guys there who were threatening to throw this chick off the balcony. That's a tough situation to be in - most of us like to think we'd do the right thing, but the truth is that not all of us would.

Even if he just stood by and didn't try to stop it, why not apologize? I mean, he was eager to apologize for something he wasn't even present for. Why not tell the MMA/BJJ world how fucking sorry you are that you didn't do anything that night 24 years ago. Why not talk about how ashamed you are that you just stood by while it happened, and how you've spent your whole life trying to make amends for your failure? How this recent rape incident brought back the horrible guilt and helplessness you felt 24 years ago and you wished you could go back in time but you can't? How you hope people will still stand by you and forgive you for your past cowardice, but ultimately no matter what happens to your reputation or how many students leave you or what it does to your career, it still won't make up for the fact that you stood by and let a 17 year old girl get gang raped 24 years ago?

That's how a truly remorseful man would act. If that's what he had come out and said, then I think most on this thread would agree that it's time to let the man have his peace. Of course, that's not what he said.

"His explanation is good enough for his mother, father, kids, wife, and the justice system but the martial arts world demands more!"

What explanation? He tried to stay silent and hope it would just go away, but that only fueled the fire. All I read was 2000 words and not a whole lot of substance.

"The same martial arts world thats harrasses his family."

If that part is true, that's really fucked up. But that isn't the "martial arts world" - no one on this thread ever advocated harassing his family. That's the work of individual nutjobs.
1/22/13 7:47 PM
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Alumynabjj
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lol.. you're such a bad troll.
1/22/13 7:47 PM
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Kings21
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I'll never understand the urge to comment on a thread you had no intention of reading in the first place just so you can post some tl;dr pics or gifs. No one gives a fuck if you read it or not. The only thing anyone cares about is discussing the topic at hand. If you're too lazy to take 5-10 minutes to read this letter then what are you clicking on the thread for?

That said, his letter said a lot of nothing and (here i go picking it apart as he said I would do) appeared to just be an attempt to bring to light that family and friends were being harassed (which certainly they dont deserve). He said he wasnt going to give the sugar coated version of what happened in 1989 and then proceeded to give the most sugar coated version of what could have happened. He did what 20 year olds do and drank too much.

I personally would have though he'd want to clear the air a little bit more on what happened then as most people IMO are more concerned with his silence on that (or in some cases in conjunction with) rather than his being involved in having an environment in his school that promoted rapey situations and of course his poor decision to buy the lloydirvinrape.com site and make it about rape prevention after this news broke.

I understand his lack of desire to go into details about things but he sure glossed over what happened back then and appeared to mask it with the fact that his family has been harassed and the fact that much of his attention has been focused on the recent rape victim.

I had hoped for a more "open" open letter than backhandedly saying "look at how much my family and friends are suffering". And just for the record I dont support them being harassed and I find the idea to do so despicable.
1/22/13 7:54 PM
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Smith1234
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How is that an acceptable response. Lloyd is not owning up like he has to. Big mistake. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:55 PM
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Drugs_Delaney
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Chicago Bum -  I am not a fan of Lloyd's marketing tactics, and have been unimpressed with his products. His sales pitch is great, but the quality of his products that I have sampled has been poor. That being said, it seems as though lots of people are running to judge him when we are lacking lots of information.

From the few articles I have read, the 1989 rape does not seem cut and dried. It seems strange to me that 10 dudes forced oral sex onto a woman. I'm not an expert, but forcing a woman into oral sex is not easy. Just to open her mouth takes a huge effort, and of course no man wants to risk getting his dick bitten off. No noise was involved. And no mention to the extent of ladies injuries other than a bruise. It seems like our information is very limited, and I would need to learn more before judging him. It does say something that the victim of the 2012 rape remains training with him.

Just my two cents Phone Post

Physician Supports Story Of Gang Rape
March 23, 1991|By RONNIE CROCKER Staff Writer

NEWPORT NEWS — A former Hampton University student's claim that she was gang-raped in River Park Towers was supported Friday in Circuit Court by the doctor who examined her after the alleged attack.

Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of rape, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

It is very common after rape,'' said Smith. It is not common otherwise.''

The doctor's testimony came during the second day of the attempted rape trial of Derrick C. Evans, a 20-year-old student at Bowie State University in Maryland. The defense position - as it was in an earlier trial of two other men - is that the woman was a willing participant in multiple acts of oral sex and sexual intercourse.

Testifying in his own behalf Friday, Evans said he and several other Bowie State students had traveled to Tidewater to see a football game between their school and Norfolk State University on Oct. 7. Afterward, he said, they went to the HU campus, where they met Terrence C. Gatling.

Through Gatling, they met the 17-year-old, Evans said. The woman joined the group of 10 men for supper at a local restaurant and afterward went back to Gatling's apartment on the 20th floor of River Park Towers. Evans said the woman went into the bedroom with two other Bowie State students, Michael P. Thompson and Charles H. Smith.

Evans said when Smith came out of the bedroom, John H. Scales III went in, followed by a crowd. That's when everybody went in,'' he said.

Evans said the woman ordered everybody out but the first two men, but that the others crowded around the door. Later, after the crowd left, Gatling and Lloyd E. Irvin Jr. went in. Evans said he followed them in, sat at the foot of the bed and listened as the two men had sex with her.
1/22/13 7:58 PM
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D241
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Authority Figure - 

I was impressed with the letter. It left something unanswered, like the whole "impotent" thing, but in truth who the fuck am I to expect him to offer details on that? 

At this point my biggest questions are:

  1. How many schools and gyms don't consider ethics and morality when choosing who they work with? I'd assume well over 90%
  2. Is this still about the rape? Or is this about getting joy from someone's sorrow? Or is this about the longstanding jealousy that follows Lloyd? If it's about women's rights to be free of violence, I'm in like a motherfucker. But, there's no honor in beating a man down over and over, even if the man himself is dishonorable
  3. Why are we spending more time on Lloyd than the actual rapists? 
  4. On a technical note, how effective is BJJ as a defense system for women? I know she was drunk. But in a sober scenario does she fare better? I wonder about this because there are a lot of women in the sport initially for defense.

1. The answer and yours, is one that cannot be answered as that is subjective.  A better more relatable question, is had Lloyd been convicted, would he ever have even made it to be an instructor having many students underneath him?

 

2.In my opinion, it's about honor and morals.

 

3.I think it's fair to say that chances are the rapist of 2012 will be convicted of rape,  Those two haven't had their day in court yet, but that day will come. If one or both of them gets off via "I couldn't get it up defense", bet your ass this place will be in an uproar.

 

4.I think those are moot questions if you're relating them to the topic at hand. 2 vs 1, it'd be pretty hard to defend rape, even if you're really good at bjj. When you're a small woman who lacks size and strength, AND you're going up against two people, those aren't good odds. When you're 5'2 and 100lbs, and you're being gang raped by 7-10 people, nothing you can do.

1/22/13 8:03 PM
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othree
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I'm deeply saddened that this shady shit is somehow connected to the sport I love so very much. But I have to remind myself of just how sick people are in this world, in all walks of life. It's a shame that "Master" Irvin didn't get the punishment he so clearly deserved in 1989.

 


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