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UnderGround Forums >> An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin


1/22/13 5:34 PM
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D241
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I guess my problem with all of this, is his job.

As a martial artist, you have a responsability to have good morals, and to try to be a good citizen. You don't swindle or take advantage of people.

I think it's pretty obvious Lloyd raped the girl, and in the very least, was an accessory to it. Had Lloyd actually been convicted, I think that conviction on his record prevents him from being  a success as a martial arts instructor.

He got a present with the dismissal, but he really should have chosen a different profession. 

 

I feel the UG is so quick to go on witchunts and have their pitchforks out, however in this subject, it's just.

It's not so much about forgiving him. It's just the moral aspect of it.

 

If your childs' teacher was convicted of child molestation where they're accused of raping a 6yr old, but either served their time or got equitted due to lack of evidence, this person very well could be remorseful, change their ways, become a positive member of society. But even still, I don't think it'd be a good idea for that person to apply to be a first grade teacher.

 

MMA isn't just about technique and fighting, there IS morals and discipline that it teaches, and having someone of Lloyds character and past, doesn't sit well.

1/22/13 5:38 PM
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wiggum
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D241 - 

I guess my problem with all of this, is his job.

As a martial artist, you have a responsability to have good morals, and to try to be a good citizen. You don't swindle or take advantage of people.

I think it's pretty obvious Lloyd raped the girl, and in the very least, was an accessory to it. Had Lloyd actually been convicted, I think that conviction on his record prevents him from being  a success as a martial arts instructor.

He got a present with the dismissal, but he really should have chosen a different profession. 

 

I feel the UG is so quick to go on witchunts and have their pitchforks out, however in this subject, it's just.

It's not so much about forgiving him. It's just the moral aspect of it.

 

If your childs' teacher was convicted of child molestation where they're accused of raping a 6yr old, but either served their time or got equitted due to lack of evidence, this person very well could be remorseful, change their ways, become a positive member of society. But even still, I don't think it'd be a good idea for that person to apply to be a first grade teacher.

 

MMA isn't just about technique and fighting, there IS morals and discipline that it teaches, and having someone of Lloyds character and past, doesn't sit well.


D - I agree with this entirely. But I think it also goes further. If I were to list the seven most important women in my life, six of them are rape victims. Three still have nightmares.

In most the cases, the rapists got off.

After I left my hometown, there was a party where a 18 year old raped another 18 year old. Everybody knew about it. That kid went to college and lived the rest of his life. I didn't find out about this until last week.

TLI was involved in rape and we have a culture in which people were out there defending him and his team.

This is about more than Lloyd Irvin. It's about a culture in which more people need to take a stand. Step one is here.
1/22/13 5:39 PM
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Sagiv Lapkin's #1 Fan
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Underground Blog -

An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin

 

 

.

 
Someone get Lloyd a writer/publicist to help with press releases like this. While heart felt it meandered around until I completely lost his point. Phone Post
1/22/13 5:43 PM
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tenfeethigh
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MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ - The whole thing is sickening. Where did he address the part about watching the girl gang raped and not being able to get hard is the only reason he didnt participate?

This. it's a long-arsed letter and a lot of words to say nothing of any relevance.

1/22/13 5:43 PM
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T-Ham
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KingOfFighters -
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


I never understood this mentality. Mma fighters are public figures, so by nature their lives will be talked about. Just because they stepped in a cage once, they shouldn't face harsh criticism if they commit a crime?


Sorry Kirik but that's just not true.

When rampage went nutty in his truck you guys wrote about it. When Miller went nutty in the church you guys wrote about it. When the Jeremy Stevens thing came about you guys wrote about it.

As a matter of fact I can't think of one big story that had to do with fighters or trainers that this site hasn't blogged about.

War machine was on UG news every other week for a while. What about Junie browning? The list is very long Kirik, and the fact that you guys tried to ignore this story since it broke and only now put up Lloyd's side is really fucking weird.

Don't ban me Phone Post
1/22/13 5:46 PM
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DeLurked
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KingOfFighters -
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


I never understood this mentality. Mma fighters are public figures, so by nature their lives will be talked about. Just because they stepped in a cage once, they shouldn't face harsh criticism if they commit a crime?


Didn't the UG news cover all of War Machine's crimes? And the guy from TUF that had some kind of rape charge against him? And Joe Son? And Jon Jones and his DUI? Phone Post
1/22/13 5:47 PM
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oOTruthOo
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So did he rape a girl on new years eve 2012 or was it one if his students? Phone Post
1/22/13 5:50 PM
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John Nic
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One thing I did want to say about Lloyd commenting on the gang rape situation in 89....

He naturally has to leave some details out. His family, friends, wife, KIDS and community are going to read his letter and further judge him accordingly. He can't write it like some rape novel with every detail - and even if he did - there would still be people out there that wouldn't believe him.

The reality of it is either innocent or guilty, nobody will ever know 100%.

He could have actually raped with her and lied about it with a good lawyer... or she could have consented, realized after the booze wore off what happened and freaked out, overcome with guilt.. or any other possible combinations of events which lead him to being actually guilty or 'innocent'.

Unfortunately with how easy it is to manipulate our justice system.. some times you can never be 100% sure on anything.
1/22/13 5:52 PM
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T-Ham
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Chareth Cutestory -
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


This is simply not true. Every time a fighter is arrested/accused of a crime you post a story. If there has been any exception it's being silent on this case.

Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548
Exactly.

Really weird that Kirik would try to spin this fact. Phone Post
1/22/13 5:56 PM
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MurdochIRL
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Kirik -
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 

Out of fairness and balance could you please post Ryan Hall's Open Letter as well. It is really well written and provides balance to this situation.

http://livingthemartialarts.com/ Phone Post
1/22/13 6:01 PM
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Marion Cobretti
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ObamaCare - 
Sagiv Lapkin's #1 Fan - 
Underground Blog -

An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin

 

 

.

 
Someone get Lloyd a writer/publicist to help with press releases like this. While heart felt it meandered around until I completely lost his point. Phone Post

he didnt have a point

 

 


I think thats the point.
1/22/13 6:05 PM
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Sagiv Lapkin's #1 Fan
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Marion Cobretti -
ObamaCare - 
Sagiv Lapkin's #1 Fan - 
Underground Blog -

An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin

 

 

.

 
Someone get Lloyd a writer/publicist to help with press releases like this. While heart felt it meandered around until I completely lost his point. Phone Post

he didnt have a point

 

 


I think thats the point.
Well I did accuse LI of needing a writer so I should have said:

"...it meandered around to the point where I realize not only hadn't he said something but he was probably better off not publishing this Grampa Simpson-esque parable." Phone Post
1/22/13 6:08 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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ObamaCare - 
MuayThai4Everyone - blah, blah, blah, all this talk and no action. Love the UG, been reading since 2006. Just now decided to join. This "rape letter" is not the issue. It's all of you who talk, but don't walk. So sick of you guys already

shuttup fagfuck

no one could browse this place for 7 years without registering a long time ago

u just got banned recently, more than likely


dammit, Obama Care.

 

now I have to VTFU.

I hate myself for that.

:)

 

1/22/13 6:10 PM
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bhealthy
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still waiting to see Rickson vs. Master LLoyd
1/22/13 6:11 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Rickson by integrity.

1/22/13 6:13 PM
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groundfighter2000
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UGCTT_Fillthy - 

Read the whole thing.  Must've missed the part where he apologized to the girl he intended to rape.

The real issue most folks have taken with his behavior were his attempts to bury his past using SEO techniques, and trying to use those SEO techniques to generate publicity for his curriculum.  

"Oops, bad timing." Seriously?  That's kind of pathetic.

 


THIS. That to me was the most pathetic thing. "It was horribly bad timing". smh
1/22/13 6:16 PM
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D241
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I do have to say that I don't agree with sodomy ever being a charge. Rape is rape, but in many states, consensual anal sex is still outlawed.

 

Bullshit, I love fuckin a girl in her tight ass. No way should that be illegal. Now if she was unwilling, that's a rape charge.

1/22/13 6:22 PM
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Neil Funk
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Cheesesteak:


How exactly does my Dick size have anything to do with my thoughts on this matter?


You guys WANT Lloyd to have raped that girl. Can't even conceive of a reality in which the girl might have consented. If he didn't, there wouldn't be anyone to rise up against.


He put himself in a bad position, and shouldn't have had sex with her even if she consented. But he didn't - he was found innocent.


I guarantee there are people here acting high and mighty who have some heinous stuff in their own history.


You guys WANT Lloyd to be guilty, but the courts decided he wasn't. 24 FUCKING YEARS AGO. Phone Post
1/22/13 6:23 PM
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Topsyjt
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Distances himself from the 2 accused lads also. Saying he's known them 1/7 months respectively. Phone Post
1/22/13 6:24 PM
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Frog-Jitsu
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hammerhurler - "I will go to my grave wishing someone ELSE from my team would have been there for her that night."

You mean like you were there for that girl in 1989, Lloyd? Or do you mean someone else other than you, because who knows what you would have done, right? Though I think we can guess the answer to that last question.
Wow, so true Phone Post
1/22/13 6:24 PM
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SOO72
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Chareth Cutestory - 
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


This is simply not true. Every time a fighter is arrested/accused of a crime you post a story. If there has been any exception it's being silent on this case.

Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548

Smack.
1/22/13 6:25 PM
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HandyDarsh
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Neil Funk - Why does Lloyd Irvin owe any of you anything?


What happened in 1989 ended with him being innocent of any crime. Phone Post
Don't try to make sense of this, either post a "didn't read" gif or hop on the hate train!

This whole situation makes feel bad for the victim, Lloyd, and all the "perfect people" that are trying their best to besmirch his character over something unfortunate that took place many years ago.

The sad thing is, he's getting attacked more than his students that actually recently raped a woman.

Man what a depressing thread Phone Post
1/22/13 6:25 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Edited: 01/22/13 6:25 PM
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Neil Funk -

Not guilty in a court of law does not absolve you from the social repercussions of your decision.

And again, most people took offense at his attempts to 'game the system' and use the publicity of his students criminal actions, and his own, to increase his revenue stream.

That's undeniable, and disgusting.

1/22/13 6:27 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Topsyjt -  Distances himself from the 2 accused lads also. Saying he's known them 1/7 months respectively. Phone Post

I'm sure if they'd won a major tournament, he would also have down-played his role.

Right?

1/22/13 6:28 PM
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D241
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Neil, why are you being this way?(ignorant)

 

There are 2 sides, and if you read both sides, it's obvious TO MOST PEOPLE, who is in the wrong.

 

If a guy is convicted of a crime, does that mean he for sure did it? No, innocent people go to prison wrongly on occassion. The inverse is true as well. Sometimes guilty parties are found not guilty.

 

You hang your hat on facts of the case, but you don't address the damning ones. All you're doing is saying, "courts found him not guilty", as if that's all there is, which there isn't.

 

One of the WORST things a girl can do, is claim rape when she wasn't. That's very foul, and it happens a lot, this I know and am aware of.  But I find it hard to believe that after 2 years of going through the courts systems, that the victim actually consented the whole time, but chose to go to court in and out for 2 years against all the defendents, willing to give her testomony every time.

 

Why are you taking up for him? Have you been to lloydirvinexposed.com? What are your thoughts on Lee Murray?


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