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UnderGround Forums >> An Open Letter from Lloyd Irvin


1/22/13 6:36 PM
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I_Bungalo_Baboo_Babies
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SOO72 -
Chareth Cutestory - 
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


This is simply not true. Every time a fighter is arrested/accused of a crime you post a story. If there has been any exception it's being silent on this case.

Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548

Smack.
C.C.C.COMBO BREAKER! Phone Post
1/22/13 6:37 PM
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D241
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Neil, the 2 guys in 2012 who are charged with rape, will more than likely be found GUILTY, and ostrasized from the mma community.

 

In 1989, one slipped by via lack of evidence. Since then, he became one of the most recognizable names as far as instructors go.

 

How many people are defending 2012 rape defendents? None

How many people are defending Lloyd's role in 1989 case? 1-Neil Funk.

1/22/13 6:39 PM
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Topsyjt
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UGCTT_Fillthy -
Topsyjt -  Distances himself from the 2 accused lads also. Saying he's known them 1/7 months respectively. Phone Post

I'm sure if they'd won a major tournament, he would also have down-played his role.

Right?

Merely an observation sir and (trying too) replying to a comment about distances himself from the 20yr old incident. Phone Post
1/22/13 6:39 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Neil Funk -  HandyDarsh, youre right. The two faggots who raped their teammate are just about forgotten in this story.


There are people piling on here who don't like Lloyd to begin with, and their torches blaze brighter than the rest. It's a dangerous game to play. Phone Post

The facts of their case are not in dispute, AFAIK, and there is confidence that justice will be served.

And they did not attempt to enrich themselves through the publicity surrounding "Master" Irvin's 1989 activities.

The inverse cannot be said.

That's a couple of BIG differences, in case you're keeping track.

 

1/22/13 6:41 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Topsyjt - 
UGCTT_Fillthy -
Topsyjt -  Distances himself from the 2 accused lads also. Saying he's known them 1/7 months respectively. Phone Post

I'm sure if they'd won a major tournament, he would also have down-played his role.

Right?

Merely an observation sir and (trying too) replying to a comment about distances himself from the 20yr old incident. Phone Post

i was being rhetorical, that was not directed at you.

Apologies.

(my dad is 'sir')

1/22/13 6:41 PM
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Zen
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Neil Funk - People make mistakes. A lot of the pitchfork wielders here have skeletons of their own in their closets, yet are leading the crucifixion march.


What exactly was Lloyd supposed to say? I thought the letter was thoughtful and direct. Seems like this has taken a huge toll on him.


if you guys still aren't convinced, roll up in his gym and tell him how you feel. Not a single one of you would dare though. Phone Post
My skeletons don't include watching and allowing friends to gang rape a 17 year old girl. Life is about moments, and in one of his life's biggest moments he failed in every single possible fucking way. Phone Post
1/22/13 6:44 PM
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Nitecrawler
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Mixed Martial Arts LLC, Moderator
Later Phone Post
1/22/13 6:44 PM
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Griffdog
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Neil Funk -  Cheesesteak:


How exactly does my Dick size have anything to do with my thoughts on this matter?


You guys WANT Lloyd to have raped that girl. Can't even conceive of a reality in which the girl might have consented. If he didn't, there wouldn't be anyone to rise up against.


He put himself in a bad position, and shouldn't have had sex with her even if she consented. But he didn't - he was found innocent.


I guarantee there are people here acting high and mighty who have some heinous stuff in their own history.


You guys WANT Lloyd to be guilty, but the courts decided he wasn't. 24 FUCKING YEARS AGO. Phone Post

On the one hand you want us to believe that Lloyd is completely innocent because he wasn't convicted.

On the other hand, you want us to believe that the girl may have been asking for it, despite the fact that the courts found Lloyd's friends guilty.


You are creeping me the fuck out. Your dogged defense of a possible rapist is disturbing. Yes, many here may seem a little eager to burn the witch, but at least they are doing so in DEFENSE of a rape victim. You are doing the same from the other side defending rapists.

Not sure if you just enjoy being a protagonist or simply enjoy the attention but your own investment in protecting Lloyd is pretty creepy and scummy.
1/22/13 6:44 PM
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HandyDarsh
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Edited: 01/22/13 6:51 PM
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Neil Funk -  HandyDarsh, youre right. The two faggots who raped their teammate are just about forgotten in this story.


There are people piling on here who don't like Lloyd to begin with, and their torches blaze brighter than the rest. It's a dangerous game to play. Phone Post

 

.

 

1/22/13 6:46 PM
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ortman166
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sinceufc2 - I didn't see him ever explain anything from 1989 even though he babbled on and on how he would....that's what is shady to me. If he's going to say he's going to tell us EXACTLY what happened then just do it. He skirts the issue so fuck him.
This. The rest of the letter was good tho Phone Post
1/22/13 6:47 PM
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DarrenMullen
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Edited: 01/22/13 6:48 PM
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wiggum - 
AlexanderTheGOAT - 

The victim of the 1989 case and another man there claimed Lloyd did rape her.

He claimed he was going to but couldn't get an erection.

So scenario A) he raped her as claimed by two people

Scenario B) he, by his own admission, wanted to rape her but his penis had stage fright.

Which scenario makes Lloyd Irving NOT a
Scumbag? Phone Post



Voted up

I don't think he could have testified that he wanted to "rape her but couldn't". Wouldn't he have been he charged with attempted rape or at least accessory? He must have testified that he wanted to "have consensual sex and couldn't."
1/22/13 6:49 PM
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Topsyjt
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MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ - The whole thing is sickening. Where did he address the part about watching the girl gang raped and not being able to get hard is the only reason he didnt participate?
. Agreed Phone Post
1/22/13 6:52 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Edited: 01/22/13 6:56 PM
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HandyDarsh - 
Neil Funk -  HandyDarsh, youre right. The two faggots who raped their teammate are just about forgotten in this story.


There are people piling on here who don't like Lloyd to begin with, and their torches blaze brighter than the rest. It's a dangerous game to play. Phone Post

Agreed Mr.Funk, thats what disgusts me, but yet they go after llyod because he has more to his name.

i'm done with this thread, i dont feed off negativity and trying to bring people down.

most of these people are trying to demolish this guys image just because of his success, freaking out for the wrong reason. Maybe chopping him down makes them feel better about their own shortcomings or mistakes.

 

 

lol @ claiming the good-vibe high ground.

 

I guess that's a lot easier than actually responding to the critics of your staments or defending "Master" Irvin's indefensible actions.

Obviously everyone who finds "Master" Irvin's behavior to be reprehensible are just jealous of his monetary value.

 

EDIT - glad I could capture your statement before you deleted it.  Also glad to take some VTFDs for speaking the truth.  

"It's good to know who hates you.  And it's good to be hated by the right people."  

- Johnny Cash

1/22/13 6:52 PM
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D241
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ShawnTheBadger - IF....HYPOTHETICALLY....

Lloyd would have said in his open letter:

I was there.

I was drunk.

I was very young.

I *thought* it was consensual until I got into the room with the girl.

When I realized it was not consensual, I could not get hard, I was not turned on. I was utterly disgusted, horrified, and scared.

I should have done something to stop it right then and there. I regret not stopping it every single day of my life. If I could have one (1) do-over in life I would have helped that girl on the spot.

I should have reported it.

I should have testified against those guys.

I was a scared, out of my element, over my head, stupid, drunk, pathetic 20-year old.

That horrifying incident in which I acted like a coward and did not do the right thing is what has motivated me to become the man that I am.

I became a martial artist so I would never feel threatened, powerless, or abandon someone being victimized because of my own cowardice.

I take an active role in teaching women how to defend themselves for free.

If I am ever confronted again by someone being victimized I can only hope and pray that I do the right thing. That I act immediately to help them and stop the wrong-doing. That as a man, I have learned from my mistakes, and will never, ever act cowardly again. I could not live with myself if I did.

It is the most shameful, humiliating incident of my entire life.

I ask for your forgiveness and understand the Lloyd Irvin the man is not the same Lloyd Irvin the young-man who stood helpless, frozen, and scared when I should have acted.












IF, IF, IF....Lloyd had said something along those lines? THAT I could understand and empathize with.

As it is, his letter is not worth the time it took to type it or read it.

Now that would probably get a lot of people off his back, but I don't think he can say that if it's not the truth, which I don't think it is. Now of course the way you so cleverly worded it, it could come off as very believable, but I think deep down he, as well as the people involved, know that's not how it went down, therefor I don't think he(Lloyd) would want to risk further embarrassment if it comes out that in 2013 he was lying about something in that 90 rape case trial.

1/22/13 6:54 PM
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TKOhYeah
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DeLurked - "W hat I am about to share with you IS an eyewitness account of what REALLY happened 23 years ago.
I’m not going to give you the sugar coated version some have told me to give I’m simply going to tell you the truth, the same truth I told 23 years ago"

AND THEN HE SAYS NORHING OTHER THAN HE DIDN'T DO IT.

This thing reads like an advertisement. Look at how many times he compliments himself in the article. How many times he mentions his mom and dad to garner sympathy. How he apologizes for something he says wasn't his fault (knowing the rape would occur). How he distances himself from the rapists.

C'mon, son! Phone Post
All of this! Phone Post
1/22/13 6:59 PM
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Caddock
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He apologized to his followers and family for making them have to deal with the haters; you know by bashing the 1989 victim and calling her a whore etc. No apology on behalf of the team out to that victim and others that would be stung by those types of words. No class.

He asks people to be nice to his family, yeah like TLI shills have been nice to other people's families, all over the INternet. Sure Lloyd: no class

He does apologize to the current victim for not having seen it coming. Though he does get a little 'poor little Lloyd think how he feels' there for a while. Some small amount of class that gets derailed.

He does apologize for trying to out SEO the bad press. well not really for doing it but for the timing and execution, he stills calls himself honorable in the next breath. Again what class there was is derailed.

Very strong us vs them theme. Much like the long copy he uses on his web sites, There are several hundred words that basically say "I'm going to tell the truth just keep scrolling" "I was poor, young dumb but I got the truth because mom and dad loved me, you can have the truth too if you aren't a hater and loser just keep scrolling"

Of the whole thing 34 words: lloyd's version of the truth "The facts are the facts and glossing over the fact that I did NOT rape nor have sex with ANYONE involved in the 1989 incident cannot and should not be brushed under the carpet." I guess that is true in some way, he was acquitted. I think the testimony he gave in his own defense pretty much beats that 'truth' but I guess technically he isn't lying. Goes with a denial of the technicality defense. Except he said earlier that he told the truth under oath and we have reports of what he said under oath. So apparently the truth is he got off on a technicality. Contradictory at minimum. The old I wasn't convicted therefore I am innocent bait and switch is deceiving at best.

And surprise it is the 34 words that actually has something to do with all he's been called on lately.

Then we near the end we get the I want to tell you all the details that would clear my name and help you see it my way but it would be selfish line. What it is the truth that people went to read.

Then hundreds more words of long copy and a link to a video to try and keep some of the Gracie boys good will for his own.


FRAT Version: Lloyd writes a 3300 word letter and uses 34 to actually say anything addressing the 89 rape, and even that sums up to denial and relying on 'I was acquitted'

No class
1/22/13 7:01 PM
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falsecrack
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SOO72 - 
Chareth Cutestory - 
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


This is simply not true. Every time a fighter is arrested/accused of a crime you post a story. If there has been any exception it's being silent on this case.

Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548

Smack.

^
1/22/13 7:01 PM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor
SOO72 - 
Chareth Cutestory - 
Kirik - 
Brian Rule - LMAO how long has this been a hot-button issue? And now, finally, the UG Blog acknowledges it

 

We avoid stories about figures in the sport and allegations of crime, where ever possible. The exceptions I can think of were Arianny roughing up her cell phone magnate bf as it was pretty funny go Arianny, Jeremy Stevens as it messed up a UFC and then we were asked to publish more, and the Jon Jones Bentley accident which was inescapable making CNN etc. As far as I know MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, and the other leading news sites have not run anything on this matter.

There was so much about this situation on the UG that not publishing a statement from Lloyd would have been unreasonable. Otherwise, I would have avoided it. There are enough people saying bad stuff about us without me adding to it.

 


This is simply not true. Every time a fighter is arrested/accused of a crime you post a story. If there has been any exception it's being silent on this case.

Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548

Smack.

I am not sure how far back those go. I was approached by a fighter I know well and respect and he related how at autograph signings and things people come up to him and compare MMA to assault. He suggested that posting crimes committed by MMA fighters is not doing him any favors, despite how interesting they are.

I took that to heart, and will go throught the list and try to address the pieces.

I didn't put this one up. Paul Daley arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/435182/Report-Daley-arrested-for-assault-Semtex-proclaims-innocence-on-UG/

I didn't put this one up, but would have if I saw it first, as it was on CNN etc making it inescapable. Mayhem Miller arrested for vandalism:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/420649/Mayhem-Miller-facing-vandalism-charges-after-naked-arrest-in-church

I didn't put this one up, wouldn't even think of it. Ross Pearson arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=400767

This was years ago, before I spoke with the fighter, and rethought the policy; don't recall if I put it up but could have. Kim Couture arrested for domestic abuse:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=241213

This was years ago, before I spoke with the fighter, and rethought the policy; don't recall if I put it up but could have. Tito Ortiz arrested for domestic violence
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=232842

This was almost two years ago, and may be before I spoke with the fighter, and rethought the policy; I remember talking about whether or not to run it. Hermes Franca arrested for sexual abuse
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326990/hermes

This was three or four years ago; I would never run it now. David Allen Tyner arrested for murder
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/200303/MMA-fighter-arrested-for-murder-of-four/

I didn't put this one up, wouldn't even think of it. Chad Mendes questioned about bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/415304/UFCs-Chad-Mendes-wanted-for-questioning-in-bar-fight

I did several pieces on this, including this one; a crime committed against a fighter is a comletely different matter. 15 year old girl arrested for shooting Lavar Johnson:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=176938

This was two years ago, before I spoke with the fighter, and rethought the policy; I would never do this now. And Krazy Horse getting arrested is like a story on Randy Couture working out. Krazy Horse arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=212318

I did not put this one up, and wouldn't have. Rafael Davis charged with workers comp fraud:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/396371/Firefighter-faces-5-years-for-fighting-while-getting-workers-comp/

Tough call as it got massive publicity. Don't recall who put it up. War Machine arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=227653

Tough call as Hughes is such a big name. I would not have run it. Matt Hughes suspect in bar fight:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/323307/Matt-Hughes-named-in-police-report-after-bar-scuffle/

I would never, ever run this. Ricco Rodriquez arrested for assault:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/326861/Former-UFC-Champion-Ric

Got a ton of publicity, hard to avoid. Dont recall who put it up. Mike Whitehead arrested on multiple felony charges:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/230288/C/

This was years ago. Don't recall who put it up. I woild never run it now. Anthony Johnson arrested:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=175331

I would not have put this up. Chris Leben arrested for DUI
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=blogs.Detail&gid=29548

Please keep the questions coming.

1/22/13 7:01 PM
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HandyDarsh
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UGCTT_Fillthy - 
HandyDarsh - 
Neil Funk -  HandyDarsh, youre right. The two faggots who raped their teammate are just about forgotten in this story.


There are people piling on here who don't like Lloyd to begin with, and their torches blaze brighter than the rest. It's a dangerous game to play. Phone Post

Agreed Mr.Funk, thats what disgusts me, but yet they go after llyod because he has more to his name.

i'm done with this thread, i dont feed off negativity and trying to bring people down.

most of these people are trying to demolish this guys image just because of his success, freaking out for the wrong reason. Maybe chopping him down makes them feel better about their own shortcomings or mistakes.

 

 

lol @ claiming the good-vibe high ground.

 

I guess that's a lot easier than actually responding to the critics of your staments or defending "Master" Irvin's indefensible actions.

Obviously everyone who finds "Master" Irvin's behavior to be reprehensible are just jealous of his monetary value.

 

EDIT - glad I could capture your statement before you deleted it.  Also glad to take some VTFDs for speaking the truth.  

"It's good to know who hates you.  And it's good to be hated by the right people."  

- Johnny Cash


i immediatly regretted taking part in this thread knowing nothing good could come from espressing an opinion about this topic.

dont worry, because i didnt bash lloyd i got vote downs too! 

have a nice day

1/22/13 7:04 PM
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ChiTown Philly
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Did anyone read that whole thing? My add Stopped me a sentence in Phone Post
1/22/13 7:04 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Kirik -

I appreciate your willingness to address issues in a clear and direct manner.

1/22/13 7:06 PM
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Mertvaya Ruka
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weak stuff, fails to deliver... he says he'll tell the truth, I couldn't find it in this long winded "letter".

it's fucking disgusting how it is formatted too, like he's writing a poem or something...

seriously, this still won't go away.
1/22/13 7:07 PM
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JESK
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. Phone Post
1/22/13 7:08 PM
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falsecrack
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Kirki, while I can follow your logic regarding some of this, the thing that sticks out to me is that Lloyd Irvin's open letter got posted immediately to the UG news, while Ryan Hall's open letter has been out for a few days now without similar notice from the UG news despite being applauded by 99% of people posting on that thread
1/22/13 7:10 PM
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KingofEngland
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