UnderGround Forums
 

Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Judo vs. Aikido


1/23/13 4:10 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Barry Soetoro Jr
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/15/10
Posts: 3751
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AssByvGVx6s

What the hell did I just watch?
1/23/13 11:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
judoblackbelt
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/28/07
Posts: 2257
I always look at the size, age, physical shape of the participants and this was not a apples to apples. That being said it looked like more of a friendly judo match with an Aikido guy. I would expect the Aikido guy would not get gripped like that and show some good Aikido techniques for breaking the grip or avoiding the grip. Other than that the sports are not compatible for free sparring in that sense.
1/23/13 9:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Barry Soetoro Jr
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/15/10
Posts: 3752
I thought that the aikido guy tried to do his moves but they don't seem to work with an opponent who's not rushing towards you.

I want to study aikido anyway, it seems cool in some odd way.
1/24/13 6:05 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
judoblackbelt
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/28/07
Posts: 2258
Barry, I tried Akido back when Steven Seagul first came on the scene. I couldn't get the hang of it. Went to a BJJ seminar in 1992 by Relson Gracie and met some judo guys. We continued to train together (BJJ techniques we learned at the seminar)and one judo guy in particular was pinning everyone and I asked him where he trained and that is how I got my start in judo. Have to find out what your passion is and you will stick with it. For me it was judo, BJJ second.
1/31/13 9:07 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
John Frankl
35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 1564
Or you could just title it "Real vs. Fake."
2/1/13 12:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2848
I was an Aikido black belt before I converted over to Judo/BJJ three years ago. Aikido absolutely doesn't work in a Judo match type setting.

However, it really does help with spatial awareness and understanding how you could use your Judo in a self defense setting. Also, a lot of the footwork and balance translates over very well, not to mention break falling.
2/2/13 4:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Barry Soetoro Jr
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/15/10
Posts: 3778
Does aikido offer anything at all for a clinch type of situation?
2/6/13 1:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2858
^Yes it does, both throws and wrist locks. There were actually several cases where Aikido guys would beat Judo guys.

Of course, back then you had to have a black belt in another MA before you were allowed to do Aikido and Judo wasn't as refined as it is now. You won't be hearing the same kinds of stories these days.
2/6/13 3:00 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Barry Soetoro Jr
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/15/10
Posts: 3793
How long does it usually take to get a black belt in aikido? Assuming that most people don't train it as often as some of the bjj/judo guys do.
2/6/13 8:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2863
I would say on average about five years and that would be training about three days a week.

If you train in Japan you can do it in 2-3 years training six days a week
2/6/13 11:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JoshuaResnick
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/12/02
Posts: 12623
in 28 years I have not found an aikido guy who was in the kind of physical condition that is required to handle a judoka or wrestler of the same skill/age/ability levels.

Aikido is based on controlling open space when compared to Judo and wrestling. thus, with a minimized gap and/or a resisting partner with overall solid core and grip strength there are significant disadvantages from what I have personally seen in Aikido.

It just seems to be very theoretical in comparison.
2/7/13 1:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2864
^Correct.

I do find that Aikido does make you more aware of things that go on in self defense situations. If you want to be able to use your martial arts training beyond just the sport then I do recommend giving it a try.
2/7/13 9:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FatBuddha
9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8937
Josh - have you trained aikido formally? (I know of your extensive judo experience and accomplishments, which is why I'm asking)
2/8/13 1:01 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Easytarget
37 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/1/03
Posts: 3444
Croyce - Yes it does, both throws and wrist locks. There were actually several cases where Aikido guys would beat Judo guys.


When and where if you could tell me. Because I have studied both and never came across anything, especially video.
2/8/13 1:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JoshuaResnick
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/12/02
Posts: 12625
FB no, I have not... honestly no time and less interest. I am a fan of the Olympic movement and so for me it is wrestling and Judo above all else.
2/8/13 1:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2869
Easytarget - Croyce - Yes it does, both throws and wrist locks. There were actually several cases where Aikido guys would beat Judo guys.


When and where if you could tell me. Because I have studied both and never came across anything, especially video.
I couple of o senseis dojo challengers were judo black belts that were helpless against him and a number of them became his students. Also several of his main students had fought and beaten judoka. These can be found in aikido books somewhere and on wikipedia. Names escape me but let me see what i can find when I'm at a computer.

As i said, it only happened back when aikido black belts meant something and judo was less refined. Phone Post
2/8/13 8:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Barry Soetoro Jr
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/15/10
Posts: 3807
Is there any O Sensei stories that come from somebody else besides O Sensei and his followers?
2/8/13 8:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
32 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 2871
^ Not that I know of, Aikido turned soft soon after he died (or even before).

Looked on Wikipedia and found Tsutomu Yakawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yukawa) but that's all I could find for now. I remember other stories but can't pin a name. There were plenty of fights between the schools back then, especially among the younger students. It'll be in some Aikido books somewhere...
2/9/13 8:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FatBuddha
9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8940
JoshuaResnick - FB no, I have not... honestly no time and less interest. I am a fan of the Olympic movement and so for me it is wrestling and Judo above all else.

thanks, me neither.
2/9/13 4:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
None So Blind
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 15145
This is a reach here, but Jason Delucia, an old-school UFC and Pancrase vet, has gotten into aikido in the last few years, and he actually seems to be trying to integrate what he learned from aikido into MMA - even released some vids on it, IIRC. Dunno how successful he is, or how good/bad the vids are, but I applaud his willingness to try to shake things up and test them out. Phone Post
2/10/13 7:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Easytarget
37 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/1/03
Posts: 3449
CyborgRoyce - ^ Not that I know of, Aikido turned soft soon after he died (or even before).

Looked on Wikipedia and found Tsutomu Yakawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yukawa) but that's all I could find for now. I remember other stories but can't pin a name. There were plenty of fights between the schools back then, especially among the younger students. It'll be in some Aikido books somewhere...

I don't doubt that you read it, but no Aikido practitioner in the world could even come close to beating a local Judo champion let alone a National or Olympic champ.

This watering down of Aikido doesnt sit with me, o-sensei is seen is his vids doing the same things to a bunch of willing participants that we see nowadays.
2/10/13 9:07 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
None So Blind
212 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 15146
^^ Indeed - I've been reading a lot of the early Black Belt magazines, some of which were publisged before Ueshiba died (all the issues from 1961-2005 are on Google books).

Even then, some of the claims on Ueshiba's skills are outrageous, and call to mind that utterly ridiculous and bizarre "kiai master" fight where some terribly self-deluded guy got crushed in a fight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
2/11/13 7:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Mat Pimp
95 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/18/06
Posts: 3642
Let me ask my judo brothers about Kenshiro Abe. He was an All Japan champion several times, and one of only a few to ever beat Kimura, who said that he was "like fighting a shadow." So he had strong judo credentials.

Now, apparently he was so impressed with Ueshiba that he studied with him for 10 years and added a 6th dan in aikido to his 8th dan in judo. The story, and I stress it is a STORY, is as follows:

" Eventually, the old man put a finger in Kenshiro’s face, “You are so powerful, break my finger!” Kenshiro was only too happy to oblige. He took the finger, expecting to snap it like a twig, and wham! He found himself on the carriage floor under the full control of the old man. The old man allowed Kenshiro to get back into his seat. “Who are you?” Kenshiro Abbe asked. “I am Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido.” Kenshiro Abbe was astounded at the technique of the old man and requested that he become his student"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenshiro_Abe

What do you guys make of this? Somehow I am suspicious, but it is a fact that Abe promoted both judo and aikido.
2/15/13 2:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Easytarget
37 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/1/03
Posts: 3456
Interesting Matt Pimp,

All i can say is that finger attempted snapping isn't sparring, Aikido loves these tests - push me over, bend my straight arm, where force is applied steadily and they resist.

Also Ueshiba had previous training iirc in a number of styles.How good he got at sparring and and why he got that good doesn't seem to translate to his students, maybe because of his history.
2/15/13 3:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Outkaster
40 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2264
Most Judo instructors I have had or met at seminars really never thought much of Aikido because they said it did not translate that well in a sparring environment.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.