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S&C UnderGround >> My response to Lance Armstrong n PEDs


1/23/13 1:40 PM
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ColeMillerATT
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Edited: 01/23/13 1:42 PM
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Thought that Lance Armstrong coming out about his use of PEDs was important to respond to. I know im a little late, but i live in a cave and had to go back and watch the interview online. go to my site and see my response to his confession. It was a little lengthy but i couldve made it about PEDs in general and it wouldve been a novel. thanks alot. and sorry if this is in the wrong forum but this is the closest one i found that maybe it would apply to, after all cycling and PEDs are both common in the world of S&C 

http://www.colemillermma.com/ufc-fighter-cole-miller-my-feelings-on-lance-armstrong-steroids-and-cheating/

 

Thanks alot guys -cole

1/23/13 6:12 PM
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Leigh
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Lance was a cock for going after people who accused him Phone Post
1/23/13 6:28 PM
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Kevin Curtis
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Leigh -  Lance was a cock for going after people who accused him Phone Post

What Leigh said... I find his treatment of these people to be worse than the actual use of the PEDs.
1/23/13 10:55 PM
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FJJ828
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Kevin Curtis - 
Leigh -  Lance was a cock for going after people who accused him Phone Post

What Leigh said... I find his treatment of these people to be worse than the actual use of the PEDs.

Ditto. Fuck Lance.

I grew up racing USCF before it was USA Cycling and was always a big fan of Lemond and Steve Bauer. Lemond got absolutely crushed by the Lance train and as it turns out, was right all along.

 

1/24/13 5:18 AM
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BryanH
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The impression i got from the interview was he still doesn't care. It looked like he was about to start laughing at times, textbook narcissist.
1/24/13 11:10 AM
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Taku
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Edited: 01/25/13 12:32 PM
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I have not read nor watched any of the interviews thus far. On pricipal, I feel that they (the media) are totally misinformed as to the truth, myth, and reality of professional sports, P.E.D.s' etc.  Almost every pro athlete in every pro sport is going to look for ways to perform at their maximum. It is natural to do so.

Using substances to enhance performance is as old as mankind. The Incas chewd coca leaves to help them climb up and down the mountains all day long. Various tribes of various peoples around the world have always searched for (and often found) ways to enhance performance.

Cycling has been an "assisted" sport forever. To point the finger at one man, or one team, etc seems rediculous. I understand that he is the most famous, and seems not to care. 

 

...Got to get to work...more later.

TAKU

1/24/13 11:58 AM
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6mildollarman
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Taku -

I have not read nor watched any of the interviews thus far. On pricipal, I feel that they (the medai) are totally misinformed as to the truth, myth, and reality of professional sports, P.E.D.s' etc.  Almost every pro athlete in every pro sport is going to look for ways to perform at their maximum. It is natural to do so.

Using substances to enhance performance is as old as mankind. The Incas chewd coca leaves to help them climb up and down the mountains all day long. Various tribes of various peoples around the world have always searched for (and often found) ways to enhance performance.

Cycling has been an "assisted" sport forever. To point the finger at one man, or one team, etc seems rediculous. I understand that he is the most famous, and seems not to care. 

 

...Got to get to work...more later.

TAKU

Great post, Taku! I certainly don't advocate the use of PEDs, but this is an excellent perspective on the issue. Phone Post
1/24/13 1:07 PM
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LCSULLA
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I like Dave Tate's view on it. It just makes sense too me.
1/24/13 4:44 PM
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Wiggy
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I agree with Leigh about Lance being a prick about going after people who accused him.  However, as far as PED use in general goes, here's the slightly FRATastic rant in regards to this whole thing I put on Facebook roughly a week ago:

-----------

 

Here's my deal - do I condone juicing and other PED use? Of course not. However, so many people (at least in America, anyway) are of this fucked up notion that as soon as you start juicing, it turns you into some sorta superhuman that can do things you were never capable before. 
 
NEWS FLASH - bodybuilders never got big by taking drugs and sitting on the couch all day eating value meals and cupcakes. Mark McGwire (minus in injury-laden years) was a damn good home run hitting before he took anything. Roger Clemens had one hell of a fastball before he ever did. And Lance Armstrong was phenomenal cyclist before he took anything.
 
The idea that people who take shit wouldn't be great even if they didn't and don't absolutely work their asses off is as naive as it is stupid.
 
At the same time, it's the culture within these guys compete. If you think professional athletics on a whole isn't LADEN with PED use, then honestly, you're just stupid. However, the reason(s) why certain individuals have the spotlight thrust upon them is because of the very accomplishments we cheer and want to see. 
 
Think Lance was the only one doping? Nope - but he was the only one that won a shitload of times. Think McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds weren't facing juiced pitchers? Of course they were - but they were the ones setting HR records.
 
We clamor for amazing and outstanding athletic feats, putting these guys on a pedestal and ultimately (via our financial support of the teams and sports) being responsible for these guys getting paid $millions. Yet when they give us the very entertainment we want, we turn around and chastise them for it. It's hypocritical bullshit.
 
Here's a question for you - how many people know who Nonito Donaire is? Outside of boxing fans (and I mean real fans that follow the sport - not fringe fans that only care about the Manny or PBF), probably not that many. Yet, he has taken on the media and PED use, publicly stating he doesn't use and will submit to a drug test ANYTIME someone wants to call him on it, and will make the results public.
 
If PED use is the travesty the public wants to make it out to be, then why isn't Donaire a household name and being exalted from the rooftops? Because people don't really give a shit - that's why.
 
What people really like to do is live vicariously through others and their grand athletic achievements instead of putting that same time and energy into bettering themselves on any sort of mental, physical, or emotional level. Then when their heroes are brought down, it's like a part of them are brought down, so they ostracize their once-idols.
 
There's nothing wrong with being a passionate sports fan - but give that shit a reality check.

----------

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com

 

 

 

1/24/13 6:02 PM
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shootfighterbull
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Nice post Wiggy. Phone Post
1/27/13 2:42 PM
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BLPorritt
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Ah give him a break he only had one nut Phone Post
1/27/13 10:29 PM
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Taku
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Hey RobinHood,

Just curious, why is it okay in Cycling but not combat sports?

TAKU

1/28/13 12:16 AM
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Lukinho
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Kevin Curtis -
Leigh -  Lance was a cock for going after people who accused him Phone Post

What Leigh said... I find his treatment of these people to be worse than the actual use of the PEDs.
I haven't been following this too closely, but I have an honest question for those that are disappointed in the way Armstrong treated others. It seems to me that Armstrong went agro on people that accused him of cheating. The people that accused Armstrong seem to have been doping as well. So, it seems like Armstrong went ape-shit on people that got caught cheating and are now pointing the finger at him also. In other words, it seems like Armstrong was going after the tattle-tales.

I'm not defending the guy and I dont know enough about the whole story to have a solid opinion, but I can't blame a guy that was upset about being called a cheater by a bunch of people that got caught cheating.

Again, my understanding of this story could be completely inaccurate, this is just what I've picked up from bits and pieces of the news. Feel free to educate me. Phone Post
1/28/13 3:19 AM
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Leigh
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Lukinho -
Kevin Curtis -
Leigh -  Lance was a cock for going after people who accused him Phone Post

What Leigh said... I find his treatment of these people to be worse than the actual use of the PEDs.
I haven't been following this too closely, but I have an honest question for those that are disappointed in the way Armstrong treated others. It seems to me that Armstrong went agro on people that accused him of cheating. The people that accused Armstrong seem to have been doping as well. So, it seems like Armstrong went ape-shit on people that got caught cheating and are now pointing the finger at him also. In other words, it seems like Armstrong was going after the tattle-tales.

I'm not defending the guy and I dont know enough about the whole story to have a solid opinion, but I can't blame a guy that was upset about being called a cheater by a bunch of people that got caught cheating.

Again, my understanding of this story could be completely inaccurate, this is just what I've picked up from bits and pieces of the news. Feel free to educate me. Phone Post
No, he went after reporters and loads of other non-cyclists. I understand denying it but suing people when you're in the wrong is low Phone Post
1/28/13 4:39 AM
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Leigh
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Uh, cos they were right. If you are guilty of something but there is no proof, it is not morally acceptable to attack and financially cripple the people who correctly accused you. Phone Post
1/28/13 6:45 AM
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Leigh
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No, they do not. But as your mum told you when you were 5, two wrongs don't make a right
1/28/13 9:39 AM
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CMX
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Great post by Wiggy Phone Post
1/28/13 10:01 AM
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vermonter
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Leigh -  Uh, cos they were right. If you are guilty of something but there is no proof, it is not morally acceptable to attack and financially cripple the people who correctly accused you. Phone Post

He wouldn't be a very good liar (or competitor) if he didn't.
1/28/13 10:07 AM
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vermonter
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RobinHood - 
Leigh - Uh, cos they were right. If you are guilty of something but there is no proof, it is not morally acceptable to attack and financially cripple the people who correctly accused you. Phone Post
If we want to go the 'morality' direction. Lets get it on: Armstrong raised tens of millions for Cancer Awareness. Some of his money helped make the lives of cancer victims and their families a little bit more comfortable. Ie paying for utility bills, paying for family members of cancer victims to stay at local hotels near cancer hospices.

Morally do his accusers have a right to destroy his Cancer charity b/c they are morally superior? Phone Post

Who knew this was going to turn into the PhilosophyGround?

Now I'm excited.

Ok, so what consitutes a "Moral Right" as you are using the terms here? What makes someone (or some group) morally superior/inferior in order to obtain/lose such rights?
1/28/13 11:41 AM
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Leigh
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"Cop out mate."

No, your response was a cop out. "Its morally ok for him to be bad to people who are being honest about his cheating because he has done some good stuff too"

"He wouldn't be a very good liar (or competitor) if he didn't."

Sure he would. All he has to do is deny it. They either have proof or they don't. Lots of athletes get accused of juicing but they don't act like cunts about it.
1/28/13 12:14 PM
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vermonter
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Haha. I was kind of joking. As in, his competetive urge gave him the desire to crush his enemies, righteous or not. I can understand that urge.

Not saying it's right. Just saying I get it.

It may be worth note that IIRC he mentioned prior to this that he considered just letting himself appear guilty so the years of accusations, and people/organizations bent against him would finally come to an end.



If you could cheat to become famous and then use that fame to do good, have you done good or bad? What if you tried to crush the people that stand in your path to good? What's more important, the intent or the consequence?

The real answer to all this is probably that they are all assholes. If some good comes out of it, then awesome. If not, it is what it is... other people screwing over other people. Got nothing to do with me.
1/28/13 4:50 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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5 year ban for testing "positive" in an extremely limited and contreversial test (series of tests, really) is not acceptable either, Mr. Miller.

1/31/13 4:56 PM
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ColeMillerATT
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ArthurKnoqOut - 

5 year ban for testing "positive" in an extremely limited and contreversial test (series of tests, really) is not acceptable either, Mr. Miller.


Ok, im open minded, what would be a fair punishment? i tend to be a bit extreme on this topic.

2/1/13 3:29 AM
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SCRAPPER
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Good posts by Wiggy and Taku.
2/1/13 7:22 AM
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LCSULLA
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Dave Tate's vid on PED's is dead on. If no one has ever seen it, then they really should.

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