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UnderGround Forums >> Who is Tougher: Mma Fighter or U.S. Marine ?


1/24/13 11:42 PM
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RayRaysFunhouse
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uniquetechnique - "Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?"

----GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly, USMC
near Lucy-`le-Bocage as he led the 5th Marines' attack into Belleau Wood, 6 June 1918

Thats one Tough MuthaF-er
There are some pretty badass Marine quotes. Chesty Puller quotes still gives me a moto-stiffy. Phone Post
1/25/13 12:11 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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Marines do push ups, sit ups, and run almost everyday. Go through cold weather, desert, jungle training. Spend weeks sleeping outside.

MMA Fighters go through strenuous training camps filled with exhausting exercises to no end.

Tough one. Phone Post
1/25/13 12:11 AM
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bknumber1
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RayRaysFunhouse -
bknumber1 - Falling into both categories of course I have to say something. While I enjoy the aura that surrounds "Marines" in the public eye, the truth of the argument comes down to the same thing it does when you ask if one MA is better than another. Truth is it depends on the individual.

Two quick reasons you cannot compare them other than those mentioned already are they have different goals and one is a team sport! Speaking of combat, I have no desire to get close enough for you to punch or grapple with me. I would prefer to shoot you with a rifle or even better IDF. When I fight, I am trying my best to get my hands on you. And it is just me in there with my opponent. In combat if it does come to hand to hand, I only need to keep you busy enough till my three best friends show up in seconds. :) Phone Post
All of this is true.
Marines have this aura of toughness but that's because of recruiting commercials and whatnot lol, a lot of shitbags fall through the cracks and skate their way through four years and get out. All the while bitching and complaining about how they hate it, but still have moto shit on their Facebook to impress Suzy Rottencrotch back home.

Same goes with mma fighters, I imagine. Any guy can join a gym, take a few bjj classes, spar, or maybe even fight a few amateur fights then quit with a losing record, and still boast that he was a professional or ammy mma fighter.

I wouldn't consider either of those guys "tough." Phone Post
Very true! And I love the scary movie reference of your SN! Phone Post
1/25/13 12:11 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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Perhaps a question for Brian Stann Phone Post
1/25/13 12:36 AM
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omlet de fromage
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Marine is my initial thought. Phone Post
1/25/13 12:38 AM
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kingjames100
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RayRaysFunhouse - 
bknumber1 - Falling into both categories of course I have to say something. While I enjoy the aura that surrounds "Marines" in the public eye, the truth of the argument comes down to the same thing it does when you ask if one MA is better than another. Truth is it depends on the individual.

Two quick reasons you cannot compare them other than those mentioned already are they have different goals and one is a team sport! Speaking of combat, I have no desire to get close enough for you to punch or grapple with me. I would prefer to shoot you with a rifle or even better IDF. When I fight, I am trying my best to get my hands on you. And it is just me in there with my opponent. In combat if it does come to hand to hand, I only need to keep you busy enough till my three best friends show up in seconds. :) Phone Post
All of this is true.
Marines have this aura of toughness but that's because of recruiting commercials and whatnot lol, a lot of shitbags fall through the cracks and skate their way through four years and get out. All the while bitching and complaining about how they hate it, but still have moto shit on their Facebook to impress Suzy Rottencrotch back home.

Same goes with mma fighters, I imagine. Any guy can join a gym, take a few bjj classes, spar, or maybe even fight a few amateur fights then quit with a losing record, and still boast that he was a professional or ammy mma fighter.

I wouldn't consider either of those guys "tough." Phone Post

This
1/25/13 12:39 AM
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PrettyBoy
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Depends on the individual.
1/25/13 12:54 AM
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knuckleballs
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I will go with Tim "One Shot" Kennedy. He kills Iraq people in order to protect Iraq people from themselves, and to protect America's freedom.
1/25/13 1:54 AM
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dahosse
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What does "tough" even mean in this context? Being able to take punches to the face? Being able to do a lot of push-ups? Being able to deal with long periods of discomfort and sub-ideal living conditions?

I will humbly submit that a marine in combat will put up with conditions and bullshit that would leave the average, pampered, 4-6 meals a day, rub-downs and sauna fighter crying and sucking his thumb. There is just absolutely no comparison, and this thread is fucking retarded.

Tough is not synonymous with being able to beat people up. Tough is gutting things out when you have no reason to. Tough is not knowing when to quit because you never learned how. Tough is stuffing a piece of your shirt into a hole in your body that shouldn't be there and walking your happy ass to a place where if you fall down, you won't end up dead from it. The average mma fighter will never have a chance to demonstrate toughness in his career. He might demonstrate durability or resiliency, but toughness is a mental attribute more than a physical one.

I'd say endurance runners are "tougher" than mma fighters, come to that. Every time one of those fuckers toe up to the line, they KNOW they're going to be hurting. In mma, it's about half a crapshoot. You might be done in 10 seconds and walk away with a slightly hurt hand. Phone Post
1/25/13 2:26 AM
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MartialArtsMixed
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It was just a hypothetical question, no need for vote downs aholes.
1/25/13 3:34 AM
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88samurai88
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Hard to answer..brock lesnar? Or some 175lb marine? Brock..some marines Are trained killers but with weapons...mma fighters are trained killers with their hands,feet and knees.. Yes you can argue that marines are trained in hand to hand combat but not to the extent of a professional MMA fighter. So i would have to say a MMA fighter is more dangerous. Phone Post
1/25/13 3:41 AM
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KingGo
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part_time_lurker -
thebigblastula - I have seen too many Marines/Army guys get KO'd to have an image of them as "tough" in my head.

Pure toughness, as a concept, I go fighter. Marines don't deal with broken noses and continuing on, marines don't lose and have to rethink everything, etc.

In a fight for my life, I go Marine, because they have knife and gun experience that the fighter doesn't, and the same way the fighter would whoop the Marine's ass 100/100 times because he just knows better technique, a Marine will outperform (and kill) a fighter there 100/100 times.

Are you really this stupid? "Marines don't deal with broken noses and continuing on" No, they deal with getting shot, taking shrapnel, and a myriad of other life threatening injuries and continue fighting, or try to survive till medics can reach them or they can be transported to the hospital. Oh, and if a marine loses in battle it most likey means they are dead, so no, they don't have to rethink everything.
You talk as if every marine goes through this and actually see combat. There are a bunch of bitches in every branch of the military, just bc youre a marine doesnt automatically make you billy bad ass. Ive seen plenty of soldiers fight in mma matches, a lot of them come out looking like chumps. Alternatively, for every badass mma fighter there are 10 turds in the gym.

Define toughness. Are you measuring physical toughness or mental toughness? In what situation would said toughness need to be a applied? To me, this a moot question. I believe a professional fighter of the highest calibur has the physical and mental capabilites to go into combat. Flip side of that coin, a battle tested vet would be more than cabale to fight in the cage. Phone Post
1/25/13 7:19 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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has a marine ever tapped to strikes?
1/25/13 7:39 AM
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part_time_lurker
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KingGo - 
part_time_lurker -
thebigblastula - I have seen too many Marines/Army guys get KO'd to have an image of them as "tough" in my head.

Pure toughness, as a concept, I go fighter. Marines don't deal with broken noses and continuing on, marines don't lose and have to rethink everything, etc.

In a fight for my life, I go Marine, because they have knife and gun experience that the fighter doesn't, and the same way the fighter would whoop the Marine's ass 100/100 times because he just knows better technique, a Marine will outperform (and kill) a fighter there 100/100 times.

Are you really this stupid? "Marines don't deal with broken noses and continuing on" No, they deal with getting shot, taking shrapnel, and a myriad of other life threatening injuries and continue fighting, or try to survive till medics can reach them or they can be transported to the hospital. Oh, and if a marine loses in battle it most likey means they are dead, so no, they don't have to rethink everything.
You talk as if every marine goes through this and actually see combat. There are a bunch of bitches in every branch of the military, just bc youre a marine doesnt automatically make you billy bad ass. Ive seen plenty of soldiers fight in mma matches, a lot of them come out looking like chumps. Alternatively, for every badass mma fighter there are 10 turds in the gym.

Define toughness. Are you measuring physical toughness or mental toughness? In what situation would said toughness need to be a applied? To me, this a moot question. I believe a professional fighter of the highest calibur has the physical and mental capabilites to go into combat. Flip side of that coin, a battle tested vet would be more than cabale to fight in the cage. Phone Post

Believe me, 17 years in the AF has me in agreement with you. However, he was generalizing so I did too. Just the statement about broken noses had me saying WTF. When I was younger we would get in fights with Marines from 29 Palms, win some, lose some, they had their badasses you didn't want to mess with, and then guys that would roll over and play dead as soon as you hit them.
1/25/13 8:03 AM
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mikerobmma
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MartialArtsMixed - Forsythe said the recruit was injured from the “jump to freedom.” He was taken to a local hospital to be treated.

Forsythe said this isn’t the first time police have responded to this type of incident.

“[Recruits] somehow thought if they could get in the terminal – which once you get on the airfield you can’t even get into the terminal without setting off a lot of alarms,” he said. “He hadn’t even got to the tough part yet. They see the airport as freedom on the other side and I don’t think they develop a plan.”

Forsythe served in the Marine before he became a police officer and knows firsthand what being a recruit is about.

“I don’t know what was in his mind, but some people don’t prepare for boot camp,” he said. “Boot camp is very tough on you physically and mentally. We used to get people running from there all the time.”

“In the 80s and 90s, we used to get them a lot,” said Forsythe adding, in years past a lot of recruits tried to jump the fence.

It’s unclear what he will face back at the base, but if prosecuted he could face misdemeanor trespassing and felony car theft. Phone Post
I've seen fobbits run for "their freedom" during their joke of a basic training, so this doesn't impress me. Phone Post
1/25/13 8:06 AM
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Derrick Noble
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First of all this is pretty much a pointless question. But I can answer on experience. I served just 4 years in an infantry unit in the Marine Corps and during a relative peace time (mid-90's), and in those 4 years I had a lot more shitty times than in 11 years of fighting. As far as being tired, hungry, pissed off, bored, and sore. And I probably only got hit in the face a handful of times compared to hundreds of times while fighting.
1/25/13 8:08 AM
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mikerobmma
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IronTigerMMA - how many marines Actually get shot at? you guys act like everyone is in the frontline Phone Post
Yep. So true. Phone Post
1/25/13 8:11 AM
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk
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Not sure why you keep pushing your opinion here mikeerobmma ? Just curious, have you had a bad incident with a Marine in the past ?

It's obvious you are tough. Don't think anyone is doubting that here.

1/25/13 8:17 AM
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mmaguy30
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Kinda apples and oranges...

I would offer the following:

Inside both groups you will find men and women "tough" as nails, this is a person who weathers all, can put up with terrible physical pain and exhaustion, stands in the face of possible injury, and puts him or herself through a regular cycle of intense physical and mental strain.

Anyone who can do that and do it well is a tough person.

The marine more often than not does so thousands of miles from home, from family, and is more likely to see and experience death. (yes fighters often have a camp away from family... I think we can agree one is a bit worse than the other)

Inside both groups you will find the weak, the hidden cowards, the frauds, the wannabes and the ones who really dont ever risk anything and experience minimal anguish and pain.

I would submit that more often than not the periods of intense pain, discomfort, stress, terror, and physical exertion are far longer for a combat Marine than the MMA fighter who suffers a 2 hour practice or a 15 min fight...

I would submit that in both groups you have many who's main reason for joining their respective group was to show the world how tough they are...

I have seen fighters get to the cage door and completely freeze in panic and fear, I have seen grown men with years of time in service completely freeze in combat, paralyzed with fear...

I have experienced both, I can tell you that what I had to do to overcome my fear and terror in combat far exceeded what I had to do to climb into that cage. I can tell you the trauma of what I have seen and done in combat far exceeds what I have seen and experienced in the gym or cage...

But I have seen people with virtually zero intestinal fortitude not only survive in both situations, but thrive...


So in the end, i cant answer which group is "tougher". I would HAVE to say that each group is "tough" in many similar ways. each group has members not so tough, and each group requires similar traits and attributes to excel or fail. In the end what a MArine is often forced to deal with is far worse in terms of pysical and mental trauma, but I dont think that makes that group tougher.



Lastly, I have read several posts discussing who is more dangerous... if 1000 marines of equal or similar weight were matched against 1000 trained MMA fighters in MMA fights, I would bet you would see maybe a 7 out of ten wins go to the MMA fighters, 6 out of ten maaaybe... If 1000 Marines were matched against 1000 MMA fighters in a combat situation, 990 MMA fighters would be gutted and murdered, blown to little bits, 10 captured and interrogated. You might lose a few marines to lucky shots and their own stupidity, but pit a trained small infantry unit against untrained guys with guns on the battlefield, the marines will locate, close with, and destroy the enemy through fire and maneuver and close quarters combat.

but in the end, apples and oranges.

I remain,

Semper Fidelis
1/25/13 8:24 AM
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk
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Interesting mmaguy. Voted up.

1/25/13 9:06 AM
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RayRaysFunhouse
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In my humble opinion, if you're not a Marine, or at least someone who has served in a branch of the armed services, you have no fucking right to judge or question the toughness it takes.
On that same note, if you're not a mixed martial artist, you have no fucking right to judge or question their toughness either.

There is too much speculation on this thread, I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees it. I've been in the Corps for three years, had my ups and downs, and we all go through tough times.

I also dabbled in mma for a bit before I enlisted. I had one professional fight. It was a lackluster win against a guy with a losing record (he was like 4-11).

As far as mental toughness goes, being in any branch of the armed forces is harder. Physical toughness goes to mma fighters ten out of ten times. They slay themselves for several hours a day, every day, doing much harder things than our everyday PT of running a few miles and doing some pushups and jumping jacks.

Like mmaguy said, it's apples to oranges. There is no comparison. Phone Post
1/25/13 9:15 AM
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UGCTT_Zacharinho
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Anyone facing death everyday is tougher.  Any MMA fighter would accept that.

1/25/13 9:29 AM
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ShawnTheBadger
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88samurai88 -  Hard to answer..brock lesnar? Or some 175lb marine? Brock..some marines Are trained killers but with weapons...mma fighters are trained killers with their hands,feet and knees.. Yes you can argue that marines are trained in hand to hand combat but not to the extent of a professional MMA fighter. So i would have to say a MMA fighter is more dangerous. Phone Post

No sir, I respectfully disagree.

MMA fighters are not trained in hand-to-hand combat, nor to be "killers". They are trained to engage in a competitive combat sport and there is a huge, monumental difference. To me, hand-to-hand combat means the stakes are potentially life or death. I do not believe that MMA fighters go into the cage truly believing they might die in the effort.

My background is nearly three decades in nightclub security. I have seen highly trained BB's fold when it goes from an unarmed physical altercation to weapons being produced or acquired. When the stakes are raised considerably, it's funny what some "badasses" do.

In an MMA tag-team match, I will take Anderson Silva or GSP for my partner. In a bar/street fight, I will take Tim Kennedy or Brian Stann. Anderson is obviously "tougher" than Stann in a sporting match, GSP is "tougher" than Kennedy in the cage, with a ref, protective equipment, and rules. But if I am in a bar, and my opponents start producing broken bottles, knives, or firearms, I have no idea what Anderson or GSP will do. I really don't, not a single clue. Unless they have been there, done that, Anderson and GSP themselves do not know what they will do. I know with a certainty that in hand-to-hand combat, life or death stakes, Tim Kennedy or Brian Stann will have my back.

So I hope that does absolutely nothing to clear up any confusion over this topic.

1/25/13 9:46 AM
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mikerobmma
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk -

Not sure why you keep pushing your opinion here mikeerobmma ? Just curious, have you had a bad incident with a Marine in the past ?

It's obvious you are tough. Don't think anyone is doubting that here.

Oh no, nothing of the sort. I've known a few current and ex-marines, solid dudes for sure. Some are fighters, and good ones at that.

No, it's more of the whole perception thing. You see, I spent close to 9 years in the Army, combat engineer, Iraq twice. I was always annoyed with the perception that every Marine is a badass, and every Marine is on the frontline. It's similar to the idea that every person who has deployed is a hero. It's inaccurate to say the least.


Just like the Army has Infantry and Spec Ops, as well as other soldiers who end up in the shit, there are plenty of people who deployed, sat on a FOB, and lifted weights the whole time. Nothing against them, but don't think that they were involved in hard combat when they weren't. To make it simple: someone always has it much worse.

Also, not every person who served deserves respect. There are plenty of bad people in the military, just like every other walk of life.

On a side note, there is a mentality that approaches something like a douchebag jock in certain Marines, and I find it aggravating. The same could be said of certain Airborne soldiers (and similar groups). Phone Post
1/25/13 10:06 AM
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk
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Ok, I see.

I think the 'swagger' is built into the machine. You have to have some cockiness in your confidence.  I used to hang out with a bunch of Seals at Little Creek in Va Beach. Talk about cocky. But it's all part of the package.

anyway, thanks for the reply.


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