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UnderGround Forums >> Founder of Graciemag talks about Lloyd Irvin


1/25/13 2:45 PM
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soremano
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For the last two weeks people took advantage of the situation to practice what a famous Brazilian journalist calls “reputation murder”.  In this case specifically the murder of Lloyd Irvin Jr.’s reputation.

I understand that people have differences with Lloyd Irvin, his language, his way to do business. I’ve disagreed with him on a few things in the past.  I have called him and told him directly.  We talked about my disapproval, he explained his side.  I may not change his views,  and he may not change mine, however at least we respect each other and speak honestly to each other.

But now I must speak equally as honestly to some in the Jiu-Jitsu community and say that I think using this sensitive moment to attack him is cowardice and disrespectful to both him and the woman who suffered the night of this attack.

People are kicking the dog, because they think it’s dead. They didn’t stand against the dog when he was alive and barking.

Bringing past stories (no matter how unsightly they may be) to associate with this isolated case will not push me to judge him.

Lloyd has wife and son.  I know this man NOW and have for many years.  He has been a significant contributor to the betterment of our beloved Jiu-Jitsu for over a decade and a half (admittedly not I am not in agreement with ALL of his contributions but on a whole they have done far more positive and good for us than anything else) And unless something relevant that links him DIRECTLY to this particular case comes out I’m backing him.

Because I feel the information he has shared with me CAN make a positive come from all the negative I’m providing a forum for him to share his side of this story and hopefully bring some healing and growth for us.

Luca Atalla

http://lucaatalla.com/2013/01/how-the-reputation-murder-works/

1/25/13 3:03 PM
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wiggum
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Attacking a rapist is insensitive to the rapist? What fucking bullshit.
1/25/13 3:06 PM
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PrinceAlbert
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Luca has a financial interest with Llyod...
1/25/13 3:24 PM
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soremano
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BrooklynJay / Jan 24 2013 5:58 pm

So do you think it’s right for someone who was involved in a 1989 gang rape, who admitted under oath that the reason he did not actually rape the 17 year old woman was because he couldn’t get it up, to teach rape prevention seminars and self defense for woman?

I think questions like this is why the 1989 case is relevant.

  • Luca Atalla / Jan 24 2013 6:17 pm

    Do you want me to judge what is right? To public express my opinion, not matter how uneducated about the subject it is, and with that so, to make other people build their opinion over mine and therefore to escalate what can be an unfair perspective?

 
1/25/13 3:27 PM
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soremano
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PrinceAlbert - Luca has a financial interest with Llyod...

UPDATE added on 1/24/2013:

Looking for a reason behind my article, other than have an opinion, some people are demanding that I disclose my business ties with Lloyd Irvin. I guess every time Graciemag writes well about Bochecha, we would have to disclose that Koral (his sponsor at the present moment) is an advertiser. Ridiculous, but there will go:

LI never paid any airfare, hotel to me or any of my staff. He invited me to speak in his last seminar in Orlando (the only one I ever went) but there was no money involved. I wasn’t paid to speak

LI places one page advertising on Graciemag. His advertising dollars answers for less than 0.2% of our income. It’s crazy people think I would hurt my principles to keep a LI page ad. Graciemag sold last week, only counting our Brazilian edition, over 400 2-year subscriptions. That alone is probably over 50 times more money than what we get with one page ad. As I’m writing it, the first day of the Europeans is finishing, and we’ve sold already only there dozens of subscriptions.

1/25/13 3:39 PM
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Madrugadao
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"So do you think it’s right for someone who was involved in a 1989 gang rape, who admitted under oath that the reason he did not actually rape the 17 year old woman was because he couldn’t get it up, to teach rape prevention seminars and self defense for woman?"

Would they rather someone with no experience of rape teach them how to avoid it?
1/25/13 6:29 PM
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PrinceAlbert
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Edited: 01/25/13 6:33 PM
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soremano - PrinceAlbert - Luca has a financial interest with Llyod...

UPDATE added on 1/24/2013</strong>:</p><br /><p><br /> Looking for a reason behind my article, other than have an opinion, some people are demanding that I disclose my business ties with Lloyd Irvin. I guess every time Graciemag writes well about Bochecha, we would have to disclose that Koral (his sponsor at the present moment) is an advertiser. Ridiculous, but there will go:</p><br /><p><br /> LI never paid any airfare, hotel to me or any of my staff. He invited me to speak in his last seminar in Orlando (the only one I ever went) but there was no money involved. I wasn’t paid to speak</p><br /><p><br /> LI places one page advertising on Graciemag. His advertising dollars answers for less than 0.2% of our income. It’s crazy people think I would hurt my principles to keep a LI page ad. Graciemag sold last week, only counting our Brazilian edition, over 400 2-year subscriptions. That alone is probably over 50 times more money than what we get with one page ad. As I’m writing it, the first day of the Europeans is finishing, and we’ve sold already only there dozens of subscriptions.

Fair enough....but why pay your own airfare and expenses to speak at this event across the country? Usually the organizer or sponsor would pay.<br />
1/25/13 7:06 PM
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frederic
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This is not "reputation murder," more like "reputation rape." And if all those saying this stuff get brought to court, they could say that they wanted to participate in it, but just couldn't get it up when they typed or said it.
1/25/13 7:34 PM
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cheesesteak
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I for one will never read another Gracie Mag article and will let all my bjj friends know that they support attempted rape.
1/25/13 7:41 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Never liked that mag after they made it clear they edited the shit out of something i wrote without my permission before posting it online, and indicating they were only interested in actually publishing contributions from affiliate schools. I've seen them since them as in insular little publication, not a voice for the sport at large. They take financial contributions seriously in my experience. No loss taking them off my reading list. Phone Post
1/25/13 7:43 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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My grammar nightmare post is a grammar nightmare. Requesting app editing feature. Phone Post
1/25/13 7:49 PM
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PTM2020
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Edited: 01/25/13 8:01 PM
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damn, I kinda liked that mag too.   oh well

1/25/13 7:51 PM
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Christ Crapped in My Fish and Chips
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Another tool comes out. Hope he gets hate mail like the rest of them

1/25/13 7:52 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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BJJ is a good old boys club in some circles. Like a 1950s fire department. Phone Post
1/25/13 8:46 PM
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Ray Elbe
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2JupitersTooMany - BJJ is a good old boys club in some circles. Like a 1950s fire department. Phone Post
Lloyd? Phone Post
1/25/13 9:04 PM
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wiggum
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You know what really murders one's reputation?

Raping people.
1/25/13 9:52 PM
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mbalz izhairy
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So you paid your own airfare, hotel AND expenses, for you AND your staff, and traveled a great distance, killing lots of your presumably valuable time, to speak at your buddy's conference for free..come on bra..
Makes your commentary even more offensive..
Gracie Mag, we are done.
1/25/13 9:58 PM
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Jsteven
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wiggum - You know what really murders one's reputation?

Raping people.
. Phone Post
1/25/13 10:02 PM
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TDogg926
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Madrugadao - "So do you think it’s right for someone who was involved in a 1989 gang rape, who admitted under oath that the reason he did not actually rape the 17 year old woman was because he couldn’t get it up, to teach rape prevention seminars and self defense for woman?"

Would they rather someone with no experience of rape teach them how to avoid it?
Seriously Phone Post
1/25/13 10:36 PM
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DAVID H
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Fuck you Luca...
1/25/13 10:54 PM
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Jason Reinhardt
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soremano, your post made me think of my comments i made on the subject, regarding Lloyd. I basically said, look at all the good he has done for people, men, women, and children through using the beautifull martial art...BJJ. I wasn't sticking up for him so to speak. I was just trying to express more positive thoughts verses all the negativity. But, when i made my comments, people jumped my ass. Then it was like all of a sudden, I agree with gang rape. (which couldn't be further from the truth) I love the UG, as i have been a solid member for many yrs. However, this place can make you never want to give or express your opinions. Another example: Me saying i am sticking by my old friend Lee Murray's side. He was my friend. I don't just s.... on personal friends because of bad choices. But, here again, you would have thought i did the damn bank robbery! And i do not condone any type crime.
1/25/13 11:23 PM
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TDogg926
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Jason Reinhardt - soremano, your post made me think of my comments i made on the subject, regarding Lloyd. I basically said, look at all the good he has done for people, men, women, and children through using the beautifull martial art...BJJ. I wasn't sticking up for him so to speak. I was just trying to express more positive thoughts verses all the negativity. But, when i made my comments, people jumped my ass. Then it was like all of a sudden, I agree with gang rape. (which couldn't be further from the truth) I love the UG, as i have been a solid member for many yrs. However, this place can make you never want to give or express your opinions. Another example: Me saying i am sticking by my old friend Lee Murray's side. He was my friend. I don't just s.... on personal friends because of bad choices. But, here again, you would have thought i did the damn bank robbery! And i do not condone any type crime.
You know you can stand by someone and not agree with what they have done right? I'm sorry but if ANYONE I know was involved in a rape, I wouldn't defend them for a fucking second. I'm not saying I would never talk to them again, but I sure as fuck wouldn't defend them. Phone Post
1/26/13 1:34 AM
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ShaqNoob
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tl;dr Phone Post
1/26/13 1:47 AM
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IHangFromBJsBallSack
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Lol Jason don't stand up for a rapist or you are going to get flamed here. By all of us. Phone Post
1/26/13 2:38 AM
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MOFuKA
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Crucifying a person for what they did 20 years ago is a bit much. People change and learn from their mistakes. I am 100% sure that the LI of 1989 is a completely different person from the LI of today.
Rape is a very serious issue, and the 2 at fault should be in the cross heirs, not their bjj instructor. There are about 100 topics regarding LI's case in 1989 and maybe 1 about the 2 that are accually involved in this current case of 2012-2013. Where's the sense in that?
Maybe ppl have a personal issue with him and now is the perfect time to put fuel to the flame and burn him down.
Maybe some ppl are really affected by his situation in 1989 and are speaking from their hearts.
One or the other... If you have a personal issue with LI and using this whole rape thing to flame him than you need to check your moral stand point and have no right to be judging someone when Your character is in question. If you are truly effected and bothered by his situation 20 years ago than speak on.
But remember by law, whatever the situation may be, if you were not convicted of rape your are NOT a rapist. Kobe Bryant was accused of rape, convicted? No. Paid his way out? Yes. Which is mortally acceptable? Either way, ppl have damn near forgotten and he is doing just fine. Phone Post

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