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BJJGround Forum >> BJJ Kumite is a joke


1/27/13 12:08 AM
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dokomoy
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I'm curious which match you think was faked and why you think they faked it.
1/27/13 12:09 AM
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trianglinho
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dokomoy - I'm curious which match you think was faked and why you think they faked it.

This also
1/27/13 12:15 AM
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trianglinho
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So let's say Keenan is the only one who knew how many matches, and how many per day etc. compete for 2nd place and tell everyone Keenan had the drop on everybody in the room?

I'm saying this is good exposure, for free. If you want to make excuses plenty of people will listen.
1/27/13 3:47 AM
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HoldYerGround
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"Hapers gonna Hape" IMO

1/27/13 3:06 PM
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chew22
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I like the match footage. Great matches. Of course the tournament is set up for the favorite, just like early UFC's were set up for Royce to have the best chance.

Keenan's a nice enough kid with a unique opportunity to train fulltime. Not too many of those around. He does have some Stepford wives like quotes though which to me reflects the training atmosphere of his team. There is a way to train harder than everyone else without needing to use labels like 3% and 97%. You don't need to denigrate your opponents to train in an elite fashion. That is low class. An elitist attitude is low class. I think that's why people encourage him to train with Marcelo - there's an elite guy with zero elitist low class attitude. TLI needs more MG attitude and less condescending punk-ass frat boy attitude. And "master Lloyd" is the one responsible for that.

The thing he's not realizing about the competition schedule - it's one thing to do a marathon competition over days and sleep in your own bed. Its quite another to be on travel time, disoriented, sleep schedules thrown off, etc. - especially with the guys coming from UK/Ireland. And to not know about the round robin until they were there - that seems like a cheap trick from LI. Most of those guys do seem like they train multiple times a day, but maybe not 6 hour grind sessions to prepare for a kumite. Let them know the schedule ahead of time and they probably would be training that way. But rather than seeing the obvious like that it seems they would rather drink the Kool-Aid and continue to hold an elitist self-image. Not a good team karma there.
1/27/13 6:12 PM
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Barbartha
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I laughed at the doctor saying to Luke and other dude that they could easily compete after hearing pops and cracks in their knee and ankle. Didn't seem like a bipartisan doctor but one in the pocket.

As for the tourney, I'm enjoying the episodes thus far however, competitor beware when dealing with Lloyd.

1/27/13 9:25 PM
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kcbjj
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Sub Phone Post
1/28/13 3:33 AM
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elburrogrande
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Barbartha - 

I laughed at the doctor saying to Luke and other dude that they could easily compete after hearing pops and cracks in their knee and ankle. Didn't seem like a bipartisan doctor but one in the pocket.

As for the tourney, I'm enjoying the episodes thus far however, competitor beware when dealing with Lloyd.


in all fairness you can also see the guys praising how good the doctor is. All you saw a 20 second clip.
1/28/13 3:47 PM
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halfninja
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Animal Mother - 
Rival School - The only difference was Keenan.

Also interpreting Garry... I find him to be a weiner. He was complaining and crying about another match and changed his tune when he noticed keenan didn't give a fuck Phone Post
Garry is the hardest working guy I know, I think you misinterpreted what he was saying. It is simply not possible to attend school and train more than he does. Phone Post

This.

1/29/13 2:09 PM
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CompanyBlue
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dokomoy - I'm curious which match you think was faked and why you think they faked it.

Forgive me for not knowing all the names and match details as I watched this video while doing other things. One match the winner, gary I believe, even talked about how mad he was that his opponent just gave up a choke. That was a no gi match. Another one looked completely scripted it last only 11 seconds, guy takes a single leg and immediately you could tell the other guy wasn't fighting it and he right away turtles up but convienently leaves it wide open forthe hooks and gives his neck. Afterwards he started coughing and gagging when he stood up. I know I didn't imagine it. There were also other matches where guys gave up casually. Here is my theory.

The first one I mentioned where gary got mad, he had already submitted that same guy in a gi match earlier that day. Because of how the format works, the guy who quit knew he wasn't going to win the match because he already got beat by him, he knew he had more matches that day and the next day and the next day.....so he threw the match to save the energy. Knew he couldn't win and knew he had more winnable matches coming later. I have no idea if gary got a money move bonus for that.

The 2nd one tha lasted 11 seconds I would like to know if the winner got a bonus for either fastest submission
1/29/13 2:13 PM
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CompanyBlue
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The 11 second match did he get a money bonus for hitting a money move submission or fastest finish? It looks completely fake and maybe they could get a bonus?
1/29/13 2:17 PM
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H
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It looked to me like the guy injured his knee on the takedown which is why he didn't fight the choke. You can see him limping when he tries to get back up.
1/29/13 4:33 PM
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krept
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I believe that LI posted something about the competitors fixing a couple of the matches ___ to split the bonus $ or something? He said this was against the spirit of the event but that he would still honor the bonuses.

For example, they are told whoever wins via RNC gets a $250 bonus that is paid, regardless if they ultimately win the event. Between the two competitors, a decision is made that one of em will allow an RNC and tap to it. Both get $125.

Makes sense if the agreement is made by two guys who don't feel they will make it to the end due to their loss %. Honorable? Nope. Ironic that they would compromise morals for some fast cash from LI? no way!
1/29/13 5:08 PM
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A_Butler
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I saw a bunch of bad ass jiu jitsu. I don't know what you guys are bitching about..... Phone Post
1/29/13 6:40 PM
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LiveFromThe7x7
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krept - I believe that LI posted something about the competitors fixing a couple of the matches ___ to split the bonus $ or something? He said this was against the spirit of the event but that he would still honor the bonuses.

For example, they are told whoever wins via RNC gets a $250 bonus that is paid, regardless if they ultimately win the event. Between the two competitors, a decision is made that one of em will allow an RNC and tap to it. Both get $125.

Makes sense if the agreement is made by two guys who don't feel they will make it to the end due to their loss %. Honorable? Nope. Ironic that they would compromise morals for some fast cash from LI? no way!

I believe it was Matt Hughes and Jeremy Horn did this in an ADCC years ago.
1/29/13 9:41 PM
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TheThrill
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A_Butler -  I saw a bunch of bad ass jiu jitsu. I don't know what you guys are bitching about..... Phone Post

this.
1/30/13 4:16 PM
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halfninja
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Money moves could only be executed on someone once. This way Lloyd isn't paying out the ass for a guy who can't defend the RNC. Ilke the Turk quit because he was completely mystified by the cartwheels and breakdancing entries that Garry had employed on him in the Gi match. It wasn't "fixed"; it was an example of 'bitchassness' similar to the Brazilian tapping due to his opponent holding closed guard and not liking the grip he had on his knuckles.

1/30/13 4:18 PM
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halfninja
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LiveFromThe7x7 - 
krept - I believe that LI posted something about the competitors fixing a couple of the matches ___ to split the bonus $ or something? He said this was against the spirit of the event but that he would still honor the bonuses.

For example, they are told whoever wins via RNC gets a $250 bonus that is paid, regardless if they ultimately win the event. Between the two competitors, a decision is made that one of em will allow an RNC and tap to it. Both get $125.

Makes sense if the agreement is made by two guys who don't feel they will make it to the end due to their loss %. Honorable? Nope. Ironic that they would compromise morals for some fast cash from LI? no way!

I believe it was Matt Hughes and Jeremy Horn did this in an ADCC years ago.

Hughes got his opponent (who was also his teammate) to give him a pass through to the next round because he was the more likely victor in a match against Tito. Tito still won.
2/1/13 7:16 PM
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rgbjj
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You all sound like conspiracy theory people. None of the matches were fixed. They got paid for money moves, no matter how many they did. No one would want to quit a match on purpose because they are trying to be the winner in gi or no-gi. Who would want to spend all that money to do the tournament and then fake submissions or give up matches? You guys are all totally wrong. The matches you are seeing are exactly how they were and I know this for a fact. Just talk to one of the guys that were there. The only thing they didn't know is that they would all be fighting eachother. They thought it was like a regular tournament and if they lost then they were done. They had about a month to prepare, some shorter. All the guys have won lots of medals. You needed to submit a resume. Just watch and enjoy it and stop trying to make it something it's not. Or if you don't enjoy it, then don't watch. All I know is these guys put their heart and soul into it and everyone wanted to win.
2/1/13 8:17 PM
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SeanRoberts
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krept - I believe that LI posted something about the competitors fixing a couple of the matches ___ to split the bonus $ or something? He said this was against the spirit of the event but that he would still honor the bonuses.

For example, they are told whoever wins via RNC gets a $250 bonus that is paid, regardless if they ultimately win the event. Between the two competitors, a decision is made that one of em will allow an RNC and tap to it. Both get $125.

Makes sense if the agreement is made by two guys who don't feel they will make it to the end due to their loss %. Honorable? Nope. Ironic that they would compromise morals for some fast cash from LI? no way!

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I faked a match.
2/1/13 9:08 PM
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PTM2020
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Lloyd took full advantage of those poor helpless Brownbelts.

2/1/13 10:11 PM
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rgbjj
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PTM2020 - 

Lloyd took full advantage of those poor helpless Brownbelts.


Funny choice of words. Poor and helpless? Really? These guys have gotten so much press from this. Some of them are all over the place now, getting sponsorships, etc. They are written about in Gracie Mag and they are getting interviewed like crazy. Gary Tonin just did a big interview for Gracie Mag. Sean Roberts is in Gracie Mag and is doing Seminars plus Eddie Bravos 16 man invitational sub only tournament. Victor got sponsored by Tatami. Should I go on? They aren't even a part of Lloyd Irvin's team. They got to do something that for most of them was one of the coolest things they ever did in jiu-jitsu. And, they made some money. How did he take advantage of them?
2/1/13 10:42 PM
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GrahamJ
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Lloyd took full advantage of those poor helpless Brownbelts.


Limp: taking advantage of somebody...?
Guess 20-odd years hasn't changed the man.
2/1/13 10:44 PM
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GrahamJ
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rgbjj - 
PTM2020 - 

Lloyd took full advantage of those poor helpless Brownbelts.


Funny choice of words. Poor and helpless? Really? These guys have gotten so much press from this. Some of them are all over the place now, getting sponsorships, etc. They are written about in Gracie Mag and they are getting interviewed like crazy. Gary Tonin just did a big interview for Gracie Mag. Sean Roberts is in Gracie Mag and is doing Seminars plus Eddie Bravos 16 man invitational sub only tournament. Victor got sponsored by Tatami. Should I go on? They aren't even a part of Lloyd Irvin's team. They got to do something that for most of them was one of the coolest things they ever did in jiu-jitsu. And, they made some money. How did he take advantage of them?

The way this post reads is 'Limp Irvin did this wholly for the benefit of others, without a second thought for himself, and his own interests.'; do you think that's accurate?
2/1/13 11:28 PM
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rgbjj
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GrahamJ - 
rgbjj - 
PTM2020 - 

Lloyd took full advantage of those poor helpless Brownbelts.


Funny choice of words. Poor and helpless? Really? These guys have gotten so much press from this. Some of them are all over the place now, getting sponsorships, etc. They are written about in Gracie Mag and they are getting interviewed like crazy. Gary Tonin just did a big interview for Gracie Mag. Sean Roberts is in Gracie Mag and is doing Seminars plus Eddie Bravos 16 man invitational sub only tournament. Victor got sponsored by Tatami. Should I go on? They aren't even a part of Lloyd Irvin's team. They got to do something that for most of them was one of the coolest things they ever did in jiu-jitsu. And, they made some money. How did he take advantage of them?

The way this post reads is 'Limp Irvin did this wholly for the benefit of others, without a second thought for himself, and his own interests.'; do you think that's accurate?

He benefited from it and the guys who were on the show did too. I think the guys benefited more though from the exposure they otherwise would not have gotten. The original post was saying it was "scripted and the fights were fake." I commented on that and then someone said that they were "poor helpless brown belts" and I commented on that. That's my opinion. We can all have different ones.

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