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S&C UnderGround >> After feedback on strength/size program


1/26/13 6:45 PM
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Jdbruz
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Currently doing stronglifts 3x5 and made great gains in strength and mass. Just wondering if this program would be a feasible progression from the stronglifts/starting strength style workout.

Mon/Tue/Thur/Sat

Mon – Heavy Squat/Speed deadlifts

Squat 5 x 5
Deadlift – work to a single top set of 3, must be fast reps
Front Squat 3 x 10
Stiff Leg deadlift 3 x 10 (or GHR if you have access)
Calf work

Tue – Speed Bench, Heavy delts, heavy upper back

Bench Press 6 sets of 3 – Each rep paused on the chest and accelerated off.
Push Press – 5 sets of 3
Pull up variant (weighted if necessary) 5 x 5
Barbell Row - 5 x 5
Additional arms if you can be bothered.

Thur – Speed Squats, Heavy Deadlifts

Squats or Box Squat – work up to a top set of 3
Deadlift or deadlift from just below the knee – single top set of 5
Trap Bar deadlift 3 x 8
Power Shrugs 5 x 5
Additional light quad/hamstring work as necessary

Sat – Heavy Bench & Tris, Assistance upper back

Bench Press 5 x 5
Close Grip Bench 4 x 6
Pull up variant 3 x 8-12
Row variant 3 x 8-12
Rotor cuff work

Any feedback would be awesome lads.
1/26/13 9:13 PM
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Jdbruz
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Maybe I should've posted on OG? Phone Post
1/27/13 3:31 AM
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Leigh
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I think that's a lot of volume, especially if you're moving a lot of weight Phone Post
1/27/13 4:45 AM
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Jdbruz
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I'm starting to move decent sort of weight, squatting about 120kg deadlift about 180kg and benching about 100kg all for 3x5. May or may not be decent to you, I dunno haha. How would you suggest changing or modifying it? And thanks, I appreciate your feedback mate. Phone Post
1/27/13 7:31 AM
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Leigh
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I think those are decent lifts.Take a look at 531, its a good progression from 5x5 Phone Post
1/27/13 8:06 AM
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Jdbruz
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I have briefly looked at it, ill have a better look into it. Thanks again Leigh, legend. Phone Post
1/27/13 8:20 AM
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kyle47129
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Speed deads are usually kept to sets of 1 Phone Post
1/27/13 5:53 PM
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Jdbruz
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kyle47129 - Speed deads are usually kept to sets of 1 Phone Post
Ok thanks. Probably going to do 5/3/1 now I think. Thanks. And Leigh VTFU Phone Post
1/27/13 6:07 PM
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timessquare
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5/3/1 is awesome!

1/27/13 6:15 PM
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Jdbruz
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timessquare -

5/3/1 is awesome!

Sweet, did you continue to gain strength on 5/3/1 mate? Phone Post
1/28/13 10:19 AM
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Wiggy
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I'm with Leigh - too much volume, IMO.  Even if you cut back to only 3x/week, it'd be borderline.  Too much shit in any one workout.  Hell, your Thursday workout has Squats, Deads, Trap bar Deads, Power Shrugs, then still the possibility of accessory work?  Jeez.

No need for both Deads and Trap Bar Deads.  Dump one of them and focus on it instead.

You say that's "Speed Squat" day, but then say you're working up to a "top set of 3".  What do you mean?  Working up to 3 reps as heavy as you can that are still fast?  Or what?

If that's what you're doing, I'd be willing to be that you'll end up going too heavy on the Squats almost every time. You won't be moving fast enough by the end, you'll be going to heavy, cutting into whatever reserves you have left for your DL work, and be hampering both.

Personally, I'm not a fan of doing movements for speed that can be done slowly - stuff like Squats, DLs, Bench, etc.  Too easy of a chance that you as a lifter (not talking to you specfically OP, just speaking in the abstract) will fuck it up and not lift fast enough when you're supposed to be.  And it doesn't matter how much weight is on the bar.  If it's too heavy, you're not gonna be able to move fast enough and you're doing additional unnecessary strength work.  If it's too light, yet you're still not moving fast enough, then you're really just wasting your time.

I prefer to dummy-proof it and use movements that by their very nature have to be done fast in order to just be performed.  Mainly, I say jumps.  I think too many people get wrapped up in the O-lifts, but Cleans are a good one.  If you have to do speed upper body stuff (which I'm of the mindset that most people don't), clapping pushups can work.  A lot of people say med ball throws, but they're in the same category as Bench and Squat and such - you can throw a ball and still not be explosive.

(Sorry for the mini-hijack.)

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com

1/28/13 11:36 AM
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Leigh
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Agree with Wiggy about the speed stuff. Stick to building strength with weights and build speed on the pitch (or on the mats)
1/28/13 5:04 PM
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Jdbruz
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Wiggy -

I'm with Leigh - too much volume, IMO.  Even if you cut back to only 3x/week, it'd be borderline.  Too much shit in any one workout.  Hell, your Thursday workout has Squats, Deads, Trap bar Deads, Power Shrugs, then still the possibility of accessory work?  Jeez.

No need for both Deads and Trap Bar Deads.  Dump one of them and focus on it instead.

You say that's "Speed Squat" day, but then say you're working up to a "top set of 3".  What do you mean?  Working up to 3 reps as heavy as you can that are still fast?  Or what?

If that's what you're doing, I'd be willing to be that you'll end up going too heavy on the Squats almost every time. You won't be moving fast enough by the end, you'll be going to heavy, cutting into whatever reserves you have left for your DL work, and be hampering both.

Personally, I'm not a fan of doing movements for speed that can be done slowly - stuff like Squats, DLs, Bench, etc.  Too easy of a chance that you as a lifter (not talking to you specfically OP, just speaking in the abstract) will fuck it up and not lift fast enough when you're supposed to be.  And it doesn't matter how much weight is on the bar.  If it's too heavy, you're not gonna be able to move fast enough and you're doing additional unnecessary strength work.  If it's too light, yet you're still not moving fast enough, then you're really just wasting your time.

I prefer to dummy-proof it and use movements that by their very nature have to be done fast in order to just be performed.  Mainly, I say jumps.  I think too many people get wrapped up in the O-lifts, but Cleans are a good one.  If you have to do speed upper body stuff (which I'm of the mindset that most people don't), clapping pushups can work.  A lot of people say med ball throws, but they're in the same category as Bench and Squat and such - you can throw a ball and still not be explosive.

(Sorry for the mini-hijack.)

Wiggy - http://www.workingclassfitness.com

Wow thanks a lot for that, I didn't actually write the program a friend passed it on to me and at first glance I thought it looked alright. Starting to see your points about the volume though, and over the past few days I've been properly researching 5/3/1 and am going to give that a crack with some accessory work. Massively appreciate the feedback tho, exactly what I was after. Thanks Wiggy Voted up Phone Post
1/28/13 7:04 PM
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timessquare
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Jdbruz - 
timessquare -

5/3/1 is awesome!

Sweet, did you continue to gain strength on 5/3/1 mate? Phone Post

Yes mate, 5/3/1 is all about constantly gaining strength. I'm sure you know this though after the recent research you speak of.

1/29/13 3:14 AM
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Jdbruz
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timessquare -
Jdbruz - 
timessquare -

5/3/1 is awesome!

Sweet, did you continue to gain strength on 5/3/1 mate? Phone Post

Yes mate, 5/3/1 is all about constantly gaining strength. I'm sure you know this though after the recent research you speak of.

So as I read it after every 4 week cycle, your weight gets put up? Phone Post

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